Webster electrice Hyd. Pump

[Don Henry]

please tell me your opinion on the following.

Running the dozer in idel, then engageing a lever to stoke a hydraulic function Hyd. oil pours out the bottom of dozer in the front underneath, pulling the inspection cover it appears the Hyd. pump that directly mounts through a spline collar to the out put shaft on the engine is leaking profusely Pulled pump took off registration plate the shaft movement was nill shaft bearing seems very good.

My thought is to replace the oring seal and steel encased shaft lip seal. Pump is std gear pump more or less a 1962.

Is this what you would due outside of installing a retrofit pump

thanks, Don Henry

 

[JDemaris]

Gear pumps designed like the Webster Electric or Cessnas do not use any seals or o-rings to hold-in high pressure oil. The actual high-pressure sealing is done by the face of the gears and the thrust plate they ride against. The thrust plaste is sealed against the pump housing with a special spider gasket. That plate must be smooth (no scores) and same goes for the face of the gears that ride against it.

So, in answer to your question. The only way you're going to gain anything by just replacing the low pressure seals is IF the insides of the pump are still sealing the high pressure oil. The external seals are only there to catch residual low-pressure oil.

Sometimes a pump may still be fine inside and the external seals just fell apart. In that case, yes, new seals will fix the leak. But, in many if not most cases, the inside of the pump is scored, and/or the spider gasket has broken and the pump is forcing oil out of those low pressure seals.

The only way you will know for sure is to take the pump apart and check the insides. Or, just jam a new seal into it and see if it blows outs quickly.

By the way, there is a company down south that is making Webster pumps again. Seem to be very good quality and a lot cheaper than pumps I find anywhere else. I just bought a new Webster 23 GPM pump for my Case 580CK backhoe/loader for $200 which is pretty amazing. Most places are asking $400 to $600 for the same pump. And, the new Webster has a cast-iron center-housing instead of soft aluminum like the Cessnas have.

Dozers usually have pumps sized around 13 GPM and loaders around 23 GPM. If you measure your pump, you'll probably find it's a standard SAE B two-bolt mount. Shaft will be either keyed or 13 spline. You can buy a brand new pump for around $150.

Here is one example:

http://hydraulicpumpstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=302_64&products_id=114

 

[Rick Lopes]

Hi,

I have a shuttle shift 580ck loader/backhoe with a 188 diesel. I believe the hydraulic pump went out on it yesterday. All of a sudden after hi rev work to remove stubborn tree stump all controls failed, both loader and backhoe are not responsive at all.

I want to replace the hydraulic pump, I was about to dish out the $400 for a case oem, however, I came across your message. Could you send me the exact Webster model number you ordered that is compatible with the Case 580CK. Also, will there be a nocticeable difference in the the perormance (quicker/stronger) as a result of the higher capacity and it being new?

Regards,

Rick

 

[JDemaris]

Are you sure your pump coupler and splined shaft didn't strip? Check to see if your pump is still actually turning.

No way of comparing a new pump to your's since I have no way on knowing how worn your's was.

The pump size relates to how fast repsonse is, at certain engine RPMs. A larger pump lets you work your machine with the engine running slower. That is the main advantage to a bigger pum size.

Just about any loader-backhoe like a Case 580CK, Ford 4000 Industrial, etc. as a pump that's around 2.4 cubic inches.

All you need to know is #1 the type of mount, #2 the type of shaft, #3 the direction it turns, and #4 the sizes and threads on the inlet and outlet ports.

Case 580CK uses an SAE2-B mount. Shaft is 7/8" diameter with 13 splines. Pump turns clockwise.

Case often has much better pump prices than companies like Deere. Deere gets close to $1000 for that pump!

Surplus Center gets $350 at:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-4067-A&catname=hydraulic

The place that sells Webster pumps has one that should fit your machine for $115. Pump # WS-120. But, you'd better call them and verify. They can tell you exactly what they have to fit your 580CK.
The WS-120 is a bit bigger. It is 3.2 cubic inches. SAE2-B mount, 7/8 X 13 splined shaft, and clockwise rotation. It's going to be a little thicker then the pump you have now (wider center housing).

http://hydraulicpumpstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=302_64&prod

 

[Rick Lopes]

Thanks for the reply, it may very well be the shaft, i will remove the pump tonight and have a look. However, as this is an old machine and I am going to have to remove the pump anyway, I am inclined to order the pump you suggested. I suspect the pump is worn.

 

[Rick Lopes]

Thanks for the reply, it may very well be the shaft, i will remove the pump tonight and have a look. However, as this is an old machine and I am going to have to remove the pump anyway, I am inclined to order the pump you suggested. I suspect the pump is worn.

 

[JDemaris]

If you find out the splined coupler and splined shaft are both stripped, you will have to get a new pump. A new splined shaft for the pump will not be available.

Is is possible, however that the drive stripped on the opposite end where it attaches to the crankshaft pulley.