Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I tried it with 3/8" chain and not being a good welder only about 1 in three came out ok. 1/2" might be easyer to weld than 3/8". About strength is the question. It would be better than the worn out links I think. Try it and test it, let us know.
IMHO I would just replace the entire chain with new if you have links worn as you describe. Welding factory links is an iffy practice at best and a pre-made welded repair link is definently a better option for a single damaged link. I once tugged on a truck with the boom of my backhoe using a marginal 1/2" chain and got the snapped end of the chain thru the rear window of the cab. I found the broken link on the ground and it only had "slight" wear from being dragged.
You must let you chains drag alot. I sure wouldn't weld on it. There are different types of chain such as those used in lifting which is an alloy and welding on one of those could be fatal. I've seen chains snap and good thing no one was in line of the flying links. We had a big four wheel drive tractor stuck in our field and used another to pull it out. Didn't work. But we all stood behind another piece of equipment to protect our selves incase the chain snapped. Ended up digging the stuck tractor out with a skid loader.
I would spend the money on a new chain. There is nothing worse when somebody alters a piece of equipment then some one else gets hurt with it. You'll blame yourself the rest of your life.
I would spend the money on a new chain. There is nothing worse when somebody alters a piece of equipment then some one else gets hurt with it. You'll blame yourself the rest of your life.
I bought the chain at auction. I was not the one who dragged it over the road. Also, I am not thinking of using a repaired chain to do heavy pulling or overhead lifting. I am thinking of things like pulling dead cows with a tractor, closing farm gates to keep out dirt bikers, and so on. I am looking for advice on how to do it if you had to, not people telling me not to. Thanks for the concerns. I should have been clearer.
I have welded chain with electrode's with no problem. I do not use it for overhead lifting though. I will cut it where it was welded at the factory, either with a cut off wheel or a hack saw. I will then bevel the cut on both sides with the corner of a bench grinder wheel. I put the link in a vice with the cut just above the jaw and take a tool (a crescent wrench will work) and twist the cut link open, put into the link what ever I wanted and twist it shut. I then lay it on the bench and lay a piece of scrap next to the link, I will strike an arc on the scrap piece then move over to the link and deposit metal until the vee grove is filled. After it has cooled I will do the same with the other side. I use 3/32 7018 electrode for this. I once got the link too hot in a chain I had hooked to something that did not want to move. As I was pulling the chain with a crawler tractor I watched the welded link stretch until it got too thin and broke. I put in a new link and still use this chain today.


BradWi
I am talking about a log chain that I will use, in the future, for low-stress jobs. I would not pull a tractor out of the mud or lift a piece of equipment off a truck with a home-repaired chain, as I said already. Please answer me as if I asked about tire chains... got some of them that need help too. I am not talking about entrusting my life to a chain that I welded.
I am talking about a log chain that I will use, in the future, for low-stress jobs. I would not pull a tractor out of the mud or lift a piece of equipment off a truck with a home-repaired chain, as I said already. Please answer me as if I asked about tire chains... got some of them that need help too. I am not talking about entrusting my life to a chain that I welded.
My biggest concern would not be what I would do with the chain but what someone else might do with it if I was not around. That chain could be grabbed and used by someone that doesn't know its the welded up one. For the price of chain just buy a new one. Cut that one up in pieces and use the small chunks for what you said about holding gates shut etc.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
It's hard to figure how one would satisfactorily weld something like that, and have it be just as strong, 7018 electrode would appear to give you 70,000 lbs in tensile strength when done properly, (note: I am not a welding professional, so just an opinion, but can weld proficiently with that electrode) not much to work with there with the base metal size and shape, again could be wrong about that, just does not seem to be a good practice. Altering any kind of rigging device that has already been compromised is not a good thing by any means.
I think the others were trying to warn you, more than anything. I think the idea here, is once you repair something like this and it's still in service, only you might know about it, so if someone else grabs it for the purpose of using it for towing or other high strength applications, they might do so without knowing it has been repaired and should only be used for light duty, at minimum it should be permanently tagged, not to be used for that, but we all know how that goes. Another scenario is when it leaves your possession, the secret stays with you.
Using for gate hardware, no towing or high strength applications might be one way to re-use something like this, but even for light towing as you mention, might be good until you snag something and it breaks then. Be careful.
This is a potentially dangerous thing to do. It is one of those things that should require to be disposed of in most instances, kind of like what site safety people will do on construction sites if they find suspect, or defective power extension cords or similar, many times they are shut off and cut up on the spot, contractor learns and the item is rendered useless, sure they work and we've all used them, but in reality they present a significant enough hazard to warrant disposal. I think that is the point here, not trying to lecture, just that safety is nothing to fool with, and there is never any overkill when discussing safety ever.
I can tell you a story about a snapped chain, kind of why I contributed to this one.
While a full time dozer operator on a 200 acre subdivision site with 20-25 machines on the site, another dozer operator decided to help pull out a vibratory roller near where I was working, the roller operator was an idiot and drove it right into the muck instead of taking the longer temporary road to get to the next work area. They used a chain, it snapped and one of the links hit the upright on my Caterpillar D6D's R.O.P.S., it hit dead on, and left a dent/impression like a bullet would, mind you this is an engineered product designed to take the weight of the dozer if it were to over turn or something falls on it, so the steel was probably better than A60 mild steel and probably a unique A.I.S.C. shape. If the link missed that upright it would have hit me in the head or upper body like a bullet, there is no doubt. I had a few choice words with both the operators, there was no need for what happened, roller should have never been there, he had a dry road to use and the operator should have never used a chain, or at least covered it with something to dampen the potential of a link flying out at someone, namely me ! LOL. This in turn resulted into a confrontation at break time, the other operator started running his mouth, resulting in a nice little scuffle when he took a swing at me over this. I think helping him eat some dirt while the others watched, changed his attitude, the unfortunate thing is that today both would be fired. The other unfortunate potential, was that his actions could have caused serious injury or death. The field super was not happy, but he asked, did you git em good a few times, LOL, well we settled our differences I can say that, he ate some dirt, and when he saw the mark on my dozer after, he understood, don't use chains and don't take a swing at someone who just narrowly escaped a flying link. Problem on this site and other sites was that in a pinch they needed more people and hired on a bunch of inexperienced operators then mixed them with the rest of us who had experience. We would have used a heavy cable,waited until someone went and got what was suitable for the task at hand. On site there was a job trailer full of rigging and other equipment, we had fully loaded 30 cu yd articulated dump's get stuck, D8K's getting stuck, just about everything that was heavy got stuck on this job when working off the haul roads. We had large 0-ring, w/ 5/8" spreader cables, 3/4 spreader cables, + and other similar rigging items that were rated for high strength.
Again, not trying to lecture.... be safe !
I think the others were trying to warn you, more than anything. I think the idea here, is once you repair something like this and it's still in service, only you might know about it, so if someone else grabs it for the purpose of using it for towing or other high strength applications, they might do so without knowing it has been repaired and should only be used for light duty, at minimum it should be permanently tagged, not to be used for that, but we all know how that goes. Another scenario is when it leaves your possession, the secret stays with you.
Using for gate hardware, no towing or high strength applications might be one way to re-use something like this, but even for light towing as you mention, might be good until you snag something and it breaks then. Be careful.
This is a potentially dangerous thing to do. It is one of those things that should require to be disposed of in most instances, kind of like what site safety people will do on construction sites if they find suspect, or defective power extension cords or similar, many times they are shut off and cut up on the spot, contractor learns and the item is rendered useless, sure they work and we've all used them, but in reality they present a significant enough hazard to warrant disposal. I think that is the point here, not trying to lecture, just that safety is nothing to fool with, and there is never any overkill when discussing safety ever.
I can tell you a story about a snapped chain, kind of why I contributed to this one.
While a full time dozer operator on a 200 acre subdivision site with 20-25 machines on the site, another dozer operator decided to help pull out a vibratory roller near where I was working, the roller operator was an idiot and drove it right into the muck instead of taking the longer temporary road to get to the next work area. They used a chain, it snapped and one of the links hit the upright on my Caterpillar D6D's R.O.P.S., it hit dead on, and left a dent/impression like a bullet would, mind you this is an engineered product designed to take the weight of the dozer if it were to over turn or something falls on it, so the steel was probably better than A60 mild steel and probably a unique A.I.S.C. shape. If the link missed that upright it would have hit me in the head or upper body like a bullet, there is no doubt. I had a few choice words with both the operators, there was no need for what happened, roller should have never been there, he had a dry road to use and the operator should have never used a chain, or at least covered it with something to dampen the potential of a link flying out at someone, namely me ! LOL. This in turn resulted into a confrontation at break time, the other operator started running his mouth, resulting in a nice little scuffle when he took a swing at me over this. I think helping him eat some dirt while the others watched, changed his attitude, the unfortunate thing is that today both would be fired. The other unfortunate potential, was that his actions could have caused serious injury or death. The field super was not happy, but he asked, did you git em good a few times, LOL, well we settled our differences I can say that, he ate some dirt, and when he saw the mark on my dozer after, he understood, don't use chains and don't take a swing at someone who just narrowly escaped a flying link. Problem on this site and other sites was that in a pinch they needed more people and hired on a bunch of inexperienced operators then mixed them with the rest of us who had experience. We would have used a heavy cable,waited until someone went and got what was suitable for the task at hand. On site there was a job trailer full of rigging and other equipment, we had fully loaded 30 cu yd articulated dump's get stuck, D8K's getting stuck, just about everything that was heavy got stuck on this job when working off the haul roads. We had large 0-ring, w/ 5/8" spreader cables, 3/4 spreader cables, + and other similar rigging items that were rated for high strength.
Again, not trying to lecture.... be safe !
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Everybody's got an opinion and/or a story....While I usually repair chain with coldshuts welded shut, I have welded chain links successfully MANY times over the years. If you live in a nice little world where everything is done by the textbook, throw that chain away immediatly! However, if you live in the real world, weld it up and use it with some caution in increasingly demanding applications. If it were mine I may never use it to tie down a load on a flatbed which will be sailing down the highway at 60 mph.
I know in my lifetime of working on/being connected with a dairy farms, any chain with two hooks on it is a wonderful thing.
I have some old chains with links worn as you describe. In my case almost half of the chain has such links. They remain my light duty chains. But if you've got just got a few links and no coldshuts, go ahead and weld it up. Just use your head upon putting the chain back into service.
Glenn F.
I know in my lifetime of working on/being connected with a dairy farms, any chain with two hooks on it is a wonderful thing.
I have some old chains with links worn as you describe. In my case almost half of the chain has such links. They remain my light duty chains. But if you've got just got a few links and no coldshuts, go ahead and weld it up. Just use your head upon putting the chain back into service.
Glenn F.
Stan in Oly, WA
Well-known Member
Hi Woody,
I often stick weld rod shaped items end to end, usually using 7018. Doing it right (or at least as right as I know how) is a tedious process. I taper one of the ends and leave the other blunt or only slightly tapered. If you make a sketch of the consecutive passes in welding a tapered surface to a flat one you can see that this is enough to ensure that there will be no unfused points of contact. Clean to bright metal beyond the area that will be welded. Heat the metal before the first pass. Pause after each pass to let the metal cool enough that you can see clearly that there is no slag whatsoever left after chipping and brushing. Don't run so hot that you burn away some of the base metal at the edge of the weld. Multiple passes with 3/32" will give you more control over all factors than fewer, hotter passes with 1/8".
I have a couple of things to say about the safety concerns that have been raised. The point I would worry about the most is the one Chris(WA) brought up: you might not always be able to control how the chain is used. If you died without remembering to put a condition in your will saying the chain had to be buried with you (or if you had a stroke, or suffered sudden onset Alzheimer's) the chain would pass on to some other person. I have a suggestion about how you might make sure that your welds won't be the cause of some possible future accident. If you have a way to cause several lengths of chain to fail under controlled conditions, you could see whether the failure is at your weld.
All the best, Stan
I often stick weld rod shaped items end to end, usually using 7018. Doing it right (or at least as right as I know how) is a tedious process. I taper one of the ends and leave the other blunt or only slightly tapered. If you make a sketch of the consecutive passes in welding a tapered surface to a flat one you can see that this is enough to ensure that there will be no unfused points of contact. Clean to bright metal beyond the area that will be welded. Heat the metal before the first pass. Pause after each pass to let the metal cool enough that you can see clearly that there is no slag whatsoever left after chipping and brushing. Don't run so hot that you burn away some of the base metal at the edge of the weld. Multiple passes with 3/32" will give you more control over all factors than fewer, hotter passes with 1/8".
I have a couple of things to say about the safety concerns that have been raised. The point I would worry about the most is the one Chris(WA) brought up: you might not always be able to control how the chain is used. If you died without remembering to put a condition in your will saying the chain had to be buried with you (or if you had a stroke, or suffered sudden onset Alzheimer's) the chain would pass on to some other person. I have a suggestion about how you might make sure that your welds won't be the cause of some possible future accident. If you have a way to cause several lengths of chain to fail under controlled conditions, you could see whether the failure is at your weld.
All the best, Stan
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I had a high-tensile chain that I accidently nicked with a cutting torch. I welded in the damaged area and the next time I used it pulling stumps it broke. I'd use your worn chain to tie your cow out or something.
1/2 inch chain is good sized.I would bevel it somehow and uphill weld it with 7018 until the weld was all the way through and built up a little all the way around.Let it cool,dont submerge it in water or anything.Then I would treat it like a 3/8 chain on how I used it.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I should have clarified, I was talking about tractor tire chains. sorry.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Use 7018 and bevel the the ends so you can get 100% penetration. You might have to tack one side so you can grind the other side out and then grind your tack(s)out for full penetration. A lot of chain is hardened so I would only use the rewelded chain for light duty use. For tire chains, I'd weld it up if it were broken and if it was just worn down, I'd build it up with hardfacing that would far outlast the regular chain. Might need to use an O/A torch for hardfacing though. Dave
Hi woody! This falls in the category if you have to ask, maybe you shouldn't do it.
But if you have your mind made up. I"ve made numerous endless chains on the job site to handle wire rope. I always used 310 or 312 stainless steel. If you can possibly live with a lap joint you"ll have more weld volume than with a butt joint. If you have to go with a butt joint bevel at least one side.
You realize mechanical splice links are not all that expensive don"t you?
But if you have your mind made up. I"ve made numerous endless chains on the job site to handle wire rope. I always used 310 or 312 stainless steel. If you can possibly live with a lap joint you"ll have more weld volume than with a butt joint. If you have to go with a butt joint bevel at least one side.
You realize mechanical splice links are not all that expensive don"t you?
Hi Woody,
Since you've already been warned about receiving the DAFE (Darwin Award For Excellence), ya I would make the same repair if I had the chain here. How many of us would not?
I would cut the link to be attached with a 11/16" open gap, place the link in a bench vice where I would lay the filler piece being 1/2" x 1" cross ways centered in the 11/16"gap then weld.
This will leave you with 1/4" of rod sticking out of either side of the repaired link to easy identify the link as a warning too others.
This method will also cut down on joint prep time as nothing needs to be beveled as this joint is a typical "J" weldment, a AWS approved joint. The 3/32 root opening on either side will allow for 100% joint penetration from both sides.
For welding I would use 1/8" 6010 as then you can make a continuous fill weld without worry of slag entrapment from the root to the weld face and without using a grinder if you weld with a close hot arc. However, I would back grind the the joint cold side before welding regardless of electrode used.
T_Bone
Since you've already been warned about receiving the DAFE (Darwin Award For Excellence), ya I would make the same repair if I had the chain here. How many of us would not?
I would cut the link to be attached with a 11/16" open gap, place the link in a bench vice where I would lay the filler piece being 1/2" x 1" cross ways centered in the 11/16"gap then weld.
This will leave you with 1/4" of rod sticking out of either side of the repaired link to easy identify the link as a warning too others.
This method will also cut down on joint prep time as nothing needs to be beveled as this joint is a typical "J" weldment, a AWS approved joint. The 3/32 root opening on either side will allow for 100% joint penetration from both sides.
For welding I would use 1/8" 6010 as then you can make a continuous fill weld without worry of slag entrapment from the root to the weld face and without using a grinder if you weld with a close hot arc. However, I would back grind the the joint cold side before welding regardless of electrode used.
T_Bone
Welded chain will work, just have respect and not over due with abuse. I have welded chain with 7018 rods, leave room to get in enough weld. We must always remember certain pieces of chain that we know it's strength can be used for pulling/ others that have been repaired can be used for weaher jobs/projects. Lengths of chains can be used for many projects which a lot of times only require holding something in place. cheers, Murray
Stan in Oly, WA
Well-known Member
Hi T_Bone,
Amazing. What a good answer. You not only let any future user know that the chain has been welded, but you've also outlined a repair method that simplifies the procedure and yet produces an improved result. Pretty damn good.
All the best, Stan
Amazing. What a good answer. You not only let any future user know that the chain has been welded, but you've also outlined a repair method that simplifies the procedure and yet produces an improved result. Pretty damn good.
All the best, Stan
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
If this is really 1/2 inch chain it will hold the gate to the ground not to the post as it is awful heavy over kill to hold gates. LOL
Now why not just put some hooks in where some of the worn links are and not have to buy a new chain and not risk the welded link. I don't mean to put hooks on every 2 ft but if there is a section that is 10 ft or so. 1/2 Inch chain will be all you want to lift unless your Hercules anyway. I did this with some 20ft chains for the truck to tie down things and use them more than the long ones.
Now why not just put some hooks in where some of the worn links are and not have to buy a new chain and not risk the welded link. I don't mean to put hooks on every 2 ft but if there is a section that is 10 ft or so. 1/2 Inch chain will be all you want to lift unless your Hercules anyway. I did this with some 20ft chains for the truck to tie down things and use them more than the long ones.
Woody,
I have chain bolted together, two links welded together, H clevis"d (aka mid link"d) cold shutted, and any kind of rigging you can name or think of. I think the only thing you will hurt with welding links is the flexibility of your chain. And YES, I use all my chains to do heavy HEAVY stuff. I don"t know what these guys are doing with chain to "risk their lives" but....I ain"t going to risk my life even with a brand new 80 grade chain from Fastenall. It ain"t like you are going to weld or rig a chain and suspend a load and go stand under it. Weld the chain and use it as you wish. If it doesn"t work, use it somewhere else and get another piece for what you are doing. BEST of luck.
I have chain bolted together, two links welded together, H clevis"d (aka mid link"d) cold shutted, and any kind of rigging you can name or think of. I think the only thing you will hurt with welding links is the flexibility of your chain. And YES, I use all my chains to do heavy HEAVY stuff. I don"t know what these guys are doing with chain to "risk their lives" but....I ain"t going to risk my life even with a brand new 80 grade chain from Fastenall. It ain"t like you are going to weld or rig a chain and suspend a load and go stand under it. Weld the chain and use it as you wish. If it doesn"t work, use it somewhere else and get another piece for what you are doing. BEST of luck.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I've got lots of welded chains around the farm. I guess I've been lucky - I've broken lots of chains, but never had one fly in the manner described in several of these posts. Gives me reason to pause and consider the possibility of injury or death due to my foolishness.
I always keep a bucket of links around the welding station. I get them from the local farm stores that sell new chain. They measure off the length that the customer wants to buy and bust the chain with a hydraulic cutter. The busted link goes in a trash bucket nearby. I ask the store worker for the busted links, they look at me like I'm a fool (maybe I am) and hand me a dozen or two, no charge. Some stores bust both sides of the link, but some only bust one side, making it easier to bend the link back into welding position.
I've even used the one side busted 3/8" links to hang the porch swing from the ceiling hooks. No way the weight of two people in a swing will open a 3/8" chain link.
I'm not advocating a dangerous lifestyle, just mentioning my own sheltered experience. Use your own judgement.
Paul
I always keep a bucket of links around the welding station. I get them from the local farm stores that sell new chain. They measure off the length that the customer wants to buy and bust the chain with a hydraulic cutter. The busted link goes in a trash bucket nearby. I ask the store worker for the busted links, they look at me like I'm a fool (maybe I am) and hand me a dozen or two, no charge. Some stores bust both sides of the link, but some only bust one side, making it easier to bend the link back into welding position.
I've even used the one side busted 3/8" links to hang the porch swing from the ceiling hooks. No way the weight of two people in a swing will open a 3/8" chain link.
I'm not advocating a dangerous lifestyle, just mentioning my own sheltered experience. Use your own judgement.
Paul
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