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Welding T post together ??

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old

Well-known Member
Location
Camdenton Missouri
I need to make a pole to hold up a electric that runs from my shop to the barn. It has over the years started to sag big time so need to hold it up in the center. I have a good number of 8 foot T posts laying around so I figured I could weld 2 of them together and that would make a quick simple almost no cost fix. So will a weld like that hold?? Should I use so sort of fish plates over the first weld to make sure?? Have any of you ever tried to do any thing like this before??
Thanks
 
Seems as though I remember trying to drill a couple T posts one time. As I remember it wasn't easy, and I ended up with dull drills! Bolting them together with plates may turn out to be a project!
 
I was out of long posts and in a bind when the creek took out some fence, so I welded some short ones togehter. Just overlapped them and used 6013 rod. Still in the fencerow to this day.

That said, I wouldn't use them to hold up an electric wire. The wind will wear on that wire where it sits on the post and short it out. A better temporaty fix would be to drive one t-post in under the wire and slip a 10' piece of 2" PVC over it. Glue a T to the end and cut the back out of it, so the wire has a smooth trough to lay in.
 

I think Doug – Iowa has a really good idea! :wink:
I’ve welded T-post together before. Butted them end-to-end with just a touch of gap, and used 6011.
 
I've had some good luck and some bad luck with welded posts. Maybe thirty five years ago I made a portable loading chute using I beams for the stringers underneath and then steel posts exclusively for the uprights that the side boards are bolted to. I torched the bolt holes. The steel post uprights are braced with steel posts welded to them. When I made it everyone told me it'd be breaking within the first year. Used the chute for both cattle and hogs for 25 years and nothing broke.

I tried making some other small things with posts and the welds broke away from the metal. Go figure! Jim
 
I will have an insulator on the post where the wire will sit so it will not cause a wear problem. I have a good number of those old glass insulators laying around and one will work nicely for that job
 
Go out & cut a wood post long enough to hold it up. Not near so much of a chance of someone getting shocked . Plus a hedge post will last longer any way.
 
You could weld them together end to end with a small gap and then weld a couple of short flat bars length wise to act like gussets. Instead of a T post, you'd have 2 extra T's. Dave
 
I think I'd go with a piece of wood for that application... I'm afraid I trust not the insulation on tri-plex quite enough to touch it with an iron conductor.
A wood pole will also be cheaper.

Rod
 
In my area all I have is oak, walnut and hickory and none of them last all that long in the ground. Plus this time of the year do you know how hard it is to dig a hole to stick a post in the ground and a T post will drive right in even with the frost in the ground
 
No trees that will hold up well in the ground, I.E. oak walnut etc. Plus this time of year the ground is getting hard from the cold and I can drive a T post in but not dig a hole with out firing up the back hoe and that in turn means more $$. Or in other words I need to get this done soon because that wire is causing me problems when I load hay bales on the truck to take to places I have sold them to
 
Just overlap them about 6 inches.Maybe grind so you get 2 sides to fit good and weld them long ways on the sides.That way it will be good and strong and it will give you a place to drive it in the ground only 8 foot off the ground instead of 16 feet high.I would use 6011.Maybe if you had a piece of plastic pipe to slide over it then it might be safer.If it somehow got against the post and you grabbed that post it would be bad.With the plastic pipe over it then it might keep somebody from getting shocked.
 
When I weld hollow section I put a length of steel inside not quite butt them up and weld together, finish with angle grinder., paint.

alternatively a hook at each end , run a wire across,strain & attach to that, necessary precautions of course.
 
T posts are high carbon steel and will give you problems welding.This is a job for 7018.A treated 4x6 12 feet long cost me 18.00.A steel support for a power line in farm yard is a bum idea.You can get a real power pole set for less than 100 bucks here.There are plenty of short cut off poles available here.
 
I would get at one end or the other and pull the slack out of it . Why stick a pole in the middle of the lot to drive around .
 
I dunno. I was thinking just a prop, standing on top of the ground. Even in the ground that would last 5 years around here... then you make another one.
If you'd just rather use the steel posts, and they're made from angle (if I'm envisioning it correctly), I'd just lap them by several inches and weld it with an appropriate 7018. Should hold just fine.

Rod
 

Another vote for a wood pole. I hear what you are saying about digging in frozen ground, but I think a wood fire on the ground for a short while would solve that problem. Also, a T post will not stay upright if there is much side to side forces, like wind.

BTW, I haven't found T posts to be brittle. I've had trees fall on them and they just bent seriously, but didn't brake. They also didn't straighten back up too easily.

KEH
 
I'm with TGIN....get up and take the slack out, or stretch a piece of steel cable between the two points, and hang the electric cable in a few places to lift it. I wouldn't want an extra post in my yard.
Chris
 
Just drive one T post into the ground and then slip a 14 or 16 ft piece of schedule 40 3 inch PVC pipe over the post. Much safer and no welding required.
 
but apparently lots other higher carbon steel is added...RR rail is hard as all h3ll and brittle, t-posts are softer and more pliable.
 
Old, Definitly shorten the run of wire. It SHOULD be strung twisted around a support cable. You should be able to take the slack up on that cable at a masthead. Shut off the power while doing the work.
This would be even cheaper and quicker than proping up the wire with a pole.Safer and legal too.
Even if you are "just doing it for yourself" you HAVE to consider others and the liability. Lots of senarios that involve strangers legally or illegally in your yard that YOU are liable for if they were electrocuted by your negligence.
 
Old, Definitly shorten the run of wire. It SHOULD be strung twisted around a support cable. You should be able to take the slack up on that cable at a masthead. Shut off the power while doing the work.
This would be even cheaper and quicker than proping up the wire with a pole.Safer and legal too.
Even if you are "just doing it for yourself" you HAVE to consider others and the liability. Lots of senarios that involve strangers legally or illegally in your yard that YOU are liable for if they were electrocuted by your negligence.
 
This wire has been up for a decade or more and I just need to get it up higher and putting any $$ other then the time it takes to weld the post in etc is all I am going to spend on it. Been up for a decade or more and till it brakes big time I'm not going to do much more then prop it up. It was fine till the ice storm took out the tree branch it was on
 
The extra post is no big deal since it will be on the edge of my scrap iron pile any how and might help keep things out of the way because I seem to always pile things up on the wrong side of a line so maybe I'll think about that line and keep things on the back side that way.
 
Its not in the middle of any thing but on the edge of a tree line. Up till 2007 it was over a tree branch but the ice storm took it down so now it is sagging badly
 
Using the steel post is another reason I want it to be steel. It would ground out the power if something did happen to short out and that would in turn pop the beaker at the box so no shock either way. Steel post would be the path of leash resistance not a person if it did short out. Wood on the other hand could cause a shocking problem if it was wet out
 
Just don't stand around it during a lightning storm. I just hope that by attaching a lightning rod to your power lines that during a storm you don't end up with a lightning strike and surge problems that knock out a bunch of electronics and your frig & freezer. Good luck.
 
Lighten rods are never a problem on my place. Most of my buildings are made from steel and have ALL steel posts in the ground so I have big lighten rods all over my place
 
This would be different tho. You're kinda scaring me with a poorly grounded metal rod with only light insulation on the top of it.

A T post does not go in the ground real deep, it does not ground well. You are setting up a 'poor' ground situation which means it is a problem spot, a danger.

Your pole could attract lightening, or it could attract a lightening surge coming down the wire from a mile away. But it isn't grounded well at the base, so it will create a wide area of issues at the base.

Just not a good situation at all.

Electrical code is a national thing, so yes you are directed by code on what to do: Your local county may not bother to enforce the code much, but if something goes wrong & someone gets hurt, your insurance co & the liability lawyers in this county will be sure to point out how much out of code you are & how this is all your fault.

Not getting on your case, I like a free country too and all that, I'm only a simple dirt farmer. :) Just trying to spell it out a little better - what you are planning isn't a good idea, it isn't a good ground point for what _could_ happen 1 in 100 odds.....

--->Paul
 
But both buildings the wire goes to and from have a good ground rod in them at there boxes and if I do the T post it will be in the ground at least 18-24 inch and that is also in my iron pile as in an area 150 foot long by 50 foot wide that is 99% iron so there is a large ground plain in that area. If it had not been for the ice storm of 07 I would not have to do any thing but it happened and now the wire is sagging
 
Not to worry Old, most people don't realize you are from Missouri where there is a right way, a wrong way, and the Missouri way. There are rules, laws, and codes used by 49 states and then Missouri does their own thing. My brother in law, BIL from the hills in Missouri, legally buried his grandpa under an oak tree growing by a spring at the bottom of a hill at the farm.

That said, your best bet while the winter has contracted the line and what an electrician would do would be to de-energize the circuit, go to one or both ends, unhook the bail on the cable clamp, pull your wire tighter, rehook the slide clamp on the cable, and rehook the bail to the insulator. Then if your drip loops are too long, just cut the extra off and rebolt the lugs and tape them up. If you can't hold it long enough to do that, then buy an extra slide clamp at home cheapo and attach it and use a rope to pull it tight to hook the bail. Power company lineman use a temporary clamp and a comealong to stretch power lines.
 
Ya sort of funny how a simple question get blown out and the real question doesn't really get answered well. I asked it because I know it is hard to drill a hole in them. I do know I have welded round rod to the top of them but to weld 2 or them so as to make a extra long fence post I was not so sure of and how strong it might be when done
 
Well if this was a normal line that would work but this is an over head line I put up a decade ago to power my horse and goat barn. 110 only and it is for lights and fence charger so very little draw in amps. It is 10-2 with ground approved for out side over head use. When I put it up years ago I use a tree that was close and an insulator on a limb to hold it up then the ice storm or 07 took out that tree and it has done ok up till now and I need to get it back up in the air some. I do plan to use an insulator in the fence post so that the wire and the post never touch.
Butthe big thing is and the funny thing is that almost NO ONE answered the real question can you weld 2 T post and have them hold up well and for a long time. I would be welding them then driving them into the ground and that weld has to hold for the driving
 
Old I would butt welding them together and then add 8 inches of rod to two sides and a piece of flat to the other side. The only thing that might give you trouble is the posts are a little soft, when you get that high the wind or ice might give you fits.
 
I suggested welding them and putting some gussets on them. 6010/11 and a 7018 cap should be plenty strong. If you have a bunch of the T posts, weld a couple together and try to break them by twisting them or prying with them. That should give you a good idea if they'll be strong enough. You could double them up length wise and stitch weld them for added strength. A PVC top piece might be a good idea. Dave
 
I know your question was about welding - I don't know much bout that. I'd think you'd butt joint it, and weld a gusset on 2 sides, and it would be as strong as the rest of the metal? But you're a better welder than me, I donno.

Tposts don't have a lot of stablitiy in the ground if you go 16 feet tall. I think it would like to flop on way or another, with only 2 feet in the ground - not much surface to hold in the ground. On a fence, the wires support the posts, in a way. On a loose wire up that high, you'll get a lot of side shift in wind or ice - I donno that a tpost will really hold it up. Where I live with wind and freezing rain & snow I can't see a Tpost that tall holding up at all, would need more bending strength than that 'here'.

I've had the round step in posts bend over flat in winters here with a cattle wire on them 2-5 feet tall - can't see a tpost holding that up that high & doing any better. I know you just want vertical lift, but if you leave the wire slack, it's going to get sideload from the elements.

You kinda describe the problem with a metal pole holding up the wire - you won't be deep at all in the ground so it won't ground right (ground rods need to get down into the subsoil, into wet ground - suface ground doesn't really ground well at all), but the post is a great conductor, and will pull any juice down into the surface of the ground, where it will arc around for a bit, causing trouble in your iron pile, and diffusing into something around it that might be important & not handle electricity well. I know that's a 1 in 100 deal, but one of us gets to be that 100th person. :)

So, a lot of talk from me, and no help to your question, I know. :)

--->Paul
 
Hi Old,

When you say that the weld has to hold for the driving do you mean it has to withstand the vibration of the impact from some point lower than the top, or do you mean you plan to drive it by pounding it on the top?

Since you're going to be welding it anyway, why don't you do what I do when I need to pound a tall steel post or pole into the ground---weld a piece of steel rod perpendicular to the post at whatever distance from the bottom is equal to the amount you want to pound into the ground. Then you can pound on something which is no more than waist high. I usually make an L so that I can lay one leg along my post and make a more secure weld.

Good luck with your project, and Merry Christmas, Stan
 
Old, this is almost as messed up as the time I asked about pulling a small house trailer down the road with a ton truck. I just wanted to know if it would do it, never said noth'n bout be'n legal.

As to your question, do you know any of the good old boys on the local power company's line crew? Get an old pole, the top is still good most of time. Cut 15' off the top and set it 3' deep. You will be able to get most of your equipment under it and it will last a while. (Also won't look as bad if you insurance guy ever has to come by.)

Another idea, don't know how long it is but I have run a hot wire over the top of a drive through gate by putting a "T" on one end of 10' of 2" PVC, run HT through the t, and slide it over a T post. If it ain't too long a strand it should hold it up.

Good luck with it!

Dave
 
Plan is to put it down at least 2 foot if not more. I live in a valley and have water water and more water-all around me so a good ground shound not be a problem since there is a pond on both sides of the buildings I have. Shoot in a wet year I have water where that iron pile is when we get a heavy rain so ground will be good
 
Ya I figure on welding them up then take a post driver and driving the post in to the ground from the top. I probably will not use 2 8 footers since that will be to tall to reach from the loader bucket and be able to drive it in. Just one of those things I need to fix before I hang a hay bale on the wire and brake it and then have to replace it. When I put it up it cost less then $25 for that wire now it would be more like $75 for it
 
I had planned to do a PVC T on the top and have a piece of pipe in that T also so as to have at least 2 thickness of PVC between the end of the T post and the wire.
Funny thing is I asked about welding and get all sorts of answer to what was not the question.
 
(quoted from post at 18:09:01 12/24/09) Not to worry Old, most people don't realize you are from Missouri where there is a right way, a wrong way, and the Missouri way. There are rules, laws, and codes used by 49 states and then Missouri does their own thing. My brother in law, BIL from the hills in Missouri, legally buried his grandpa under an oak tree growing by a spring at the bottom of a hill at the farm.
quote]

Yep, that "Missouri way" is the "Southern way" of doing things.
Us farm boys in the South sometimes have our own ways and ideas about fixing things. It may not be pretty but as long as it works well, and we consider the safety aspect of it, then it's good enough. And sometimes we have to do what we can afford, and not be wasteful.
I've been guilty of doing some "Southern Rigging" over the years, myself. :mrgreen:

Old, I think the suggestion's here about butt welding and then overlapping it with some scrap pieces you have and then welding them, would work pretty good.
As suggested, I would think using 6010 or 6011 for root welds and then overlap it with 7018 for strength is a good idea. I would also test a piece afterward, to make sure it's strong enough.

Ronnie
Click to expand...
 
Have you got welding equipment that would allow you to drive one post into the ground and then weld the second one to it in place? Personally, I'd go to some trouble to keep from having to get up and pound on the top of that long and spindly a piece of metal.

Merry Christmas, Stan
 
If I was doing this in the summer yes but being winter I don't think I would even get the welder engine to start it being hand start and even when warm out it is all I can do to even think about starting that old 2 cylinder onan engine on that Lincoln welder I have
 
Old, we have been communicating for years now. I know you are a "man of means" and I respect that. But, since I am an electrician I'm going to try and help out here.

1. If this is the gray 10/2 w/ ground, it is direct BURY, not exposed. Sunlight works on it over time.

2. If this is a secondary circuit, I'd pull some slack out of the line and let it be.

3. I'd not prop ANYTHING under "decades" old Romex, the insulation will chafe quickly.

4. T-posts are make from recycled railroad iron, they have a high silicon content and high carbon content. This is why they weld them with thermite.

5. I'd weld with 7018, no root pass. The low-hydrogen rod will penetrate a T-post well enough. Also I'd overlap at least 6 inches.

6. I also have an old Lincoln 225 DC welder with the Onan ROPE start. Mine takes 3 pulls, if I do not flood it. That little 22 hp engine is a beast to pull.

7. Good luck in what ever you decide to do. Remember, us in Louisiana can do some things to make MO people blush. 8)

Merry Christmas Old

PS, Post 61 on how to weld two post together.
 
Most think your idea is nuts and are dancing around it How will you drive a 14 foot post I wanna know.Post a pix when you do it.
 
I initially ignored this post because the topic of welding steel posts together didn't interest me. But as the number of posts grew I figured I'd better check it out.

What you are doing is wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start. Sure, you can butt-weld two T-posts together. But steel posts are designed to only have about half their length exposed. By doubling them you're tripling the moment arm from four feet to twelve feet. If there's any kind of wind load the post will bend, if it doesn't bust out of the ground first.

There's also the obvious risk of using a steel fence post for something it's not intended to do: hold up a power line. A treated 16' 4x4 would be marginally better. Or at least a lot stronger.

You know what the right thing to do is: Get rid of that overhead line, which is an accident waiting to happen. Bury your UF cable in a two foot deep trench, using plastic conduit where it enters and leaves the ground to keep gophers away. Yes, it's a little money and a lot of aggravation, but you really don't want to have family member electrocuted because of a half-axed overhead power line.
 
drive the T posts in the ground to break up the frost. Our ground up here near the Erie lakeshore hasn't froze hard yet. Even if cutting a small tree and sticking it in the ground only lasts five years I think I would prefer it to a spindly metal post. Or you could even drive the T posts into the ground and use them to hold up the section of tree. If you can drive 6 or 8 of them about 3 feet down on the circumference of the pole, I would imagine it would be just as stable as having the pole in the ground, and the pole could be in the air. Drive one another foot down and run an old piece of wire up the side of the pole for a low resistance path for any stray voltage to go to ground through the post that you drove deeper. I like the idea of the PVC T for an insulator, but I would only cut enough out of the top to get the wire into it so that it would be less likely to get whipped out by the wind.
 
Ya those old Lincoln welder with rope start can be bears to start in warm weather but when it is 22 degrees there is no way in the world to even pull the rope let alone get it to start.
As for pulling the slack out of the line I have tried to do so and that is a no go.
If I use the T post it will have PVC or some other plastic between the post and the wire insulation is not a bunch of silicone to make sure it can not ground out in some way.
Yep I also have been an E.T. in the Navy and a maintenance eletrition at a big factory at one time so I know zap-U-trons well
 
That is what the tractor with the loader is for. You stand in the bucket of the tractor and drive it into the ground. Done it more then once over the years just never with a T post but done it with water pipe off and on, but don't have any pipe laying around right now so going with the posts maybe if I get around to it that is
 
(quoted from post at 12:45:59 12/26/09) That is what the tractor with the loader is for. You stand in the bucket of the tractor and drive it into the ground. Done it more then once over the years just never with a T post but done it with water pipe off and on, but don't have any pipe laying around right now so going with the posts maybe if I get around to it that is
Click to expand...
Just weld them together with anything you have & see what happens. Personally, since t-post are made (I'm pretty sure :) from whatever they sweep up off the foundry floor, plus a little extra dirt, I wouldn't trust them too much. Even though I probably have well over a 1,000 of them in use as fence posts, if a cow bends them even a little, better leave them bent, as straightening attempt almost alway results in break off at ground level...truly trash-metal!
Now after about another 40 postings, you will surely have a good answer. :roll:
 
Worse so many think its a wonderful idea to support a powerline on a lightning rod.I fed power to my shop underground in 1968.3 wire #6 uf plus a # 14 uf for a phone line.An over head romex wire swaying in the wind is nuts.Contact with the hot side could make the fence post ac hot when rust forms on the steel.
 
YES IT CAN BE DONE, THE POSTS MAYBE BRITTLE BUT SHOULD BE NOT PROBLRM WITH WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET DONE. I WAS A CERTIFIED WELDER IN MY DAYS. YOU WIL BE FINE.
 
70 posts to date so I could not resist looking any longer............wish now I had not been so curious.

Around here a single 8ft steel post has bending problems. Either in the soil hole or along the post. I can't imagine how two stacked posts are going to work.
Then there are the electrical code issues.
I'll have to side with burial as the #1 choice. #2 for a temporary fix of using the post hole digger and an abandoned power line pole. The sun is very destructive to any and all kinds of rubber and plastic.Then there is wind,ice and tree damage.Unless the line is 16+ feet high it will be a target for vehicles and equipment.
 
Let me add another post. Why not drive one post and use a couple three hose clamps while overlapping the posts about 6". If no hose clamps around, use one or two pairs of old chinese vise grips to clamp them together. If no clamps or vise grips, then I'd probably use a bunch of wraps of baling wire and twist them tight with the pliers from my belt sheath. If you are like me, you have plenty of old cheap junk vise grips looking for a new storage place. Store them on your tee posts so you won't accidentally use them while working on a tractor. Good luck.
 
If the weld breaks he will take a dive out of the bucket holding on to the post driver,He may straddle the post thats in the ground.
 
OUCH! Did not think of that... Good reason to drive the 1st post in the ground, then fit and weld the 2nd post to the 1st... THIS IS IF ONE WERE TO EXECUTE THIS PROJECT. I'd still bury it, at least 18"-24" deep.

CT
 
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