What would you do ?

[Anonymous-0]

Folks, please forgive the phoney name. I always post with my normal name, but not regularly. I'll explain.


I have worn a lot of hats over the years, but John Deere seems to be my specialty. I am currently a dealership mechanic with a ton of experience...except for two cylinder tractors. When I started this trade, the older guys assured me there was no need to learn about anything older than 3010s and 4010s. So that is the way it has been for 30 years.

Problem:
A customer I hardly know comes in the office a few days ago and wants me to restore his two cylinder tractor..{model number omitted for security}
In the dealer's service department..
At full rippin retail, 75 bucks an hour.
I still need to pin him down on what "restore" means in his mind.


My boss thinks this is great. We get to rape and pillage this fellow while I bill him for stumbling through a project I know little about.
Like the horse traders of ages past, my boss has searched this customer's soul and determined he has as much as 10 to 12 thousand dollars to invest in this project...If everyone is being truthful.

Question:
How can I locate a collector's club in middle America? I'm figuring this would be the best way to get him in touch with folks that really do know what they are doing. Are there any other ways the guy can get a bigger bang for his buck? Unless maybe he is on some kind of ego trip. Maybe it would sound cool to say "Yeah, I took my tractor back to the John Deere guys to fix it up!"

Honestly, I'd be happy to do this project. I'm just not comfortable billing the guy five times what my knowledge is worth. Any advice y'all could give me would be much appreciated.

 

[RobMD]

First of all, I understand your position, and I give you credit for being honest.

Now, since your boss is getting all excited about this little (big) deal, you really should keep anything you say to this man under the radar about a complete restoration.

Have you talked with the man about getting him to subscribe to Green Magazine and two cylinder magazine? Tell him that there are people willing to restore tractors in there... and the local two-cylinder club may be able to help.

You need to find a local two-cylinder club in this man's area that can help him get his tractor fixed up.

 

[Bushed]

The way I would look at it is, if the customer is happy to pay the full rate of $75/hour and the customer knows basically what he is going to get then I say why not go ahead with the job.

I know that there is going to be many variables and possiblely unforeseen costs but if that is explained to the customer and he/she is still happy to go ahead then why not.

Also if you could come to some written agreement concerning the known and unknowns and if any are encountered (which there will be) the customer should be consulted and an estimate of the extra costs put to the customer and he/she should give written consent to procede with the restoration.

As for the actual restoration, most tractors are put together the same and if you come across anything you are not sure o,f I am sure you will get plenty of help and advice from this forum.

But if your boss is happy and content to rape and pillage the customer then I would tell the boss to shove it, and find an honest employer.
Aussie

 

[PBrowning]

First off – Restoration is the full reversal and removal of wear, not just maintenance. You and your dealership should expect to perform nothing less, and if “compromise” on various issues is to take place, the client will have to “sign-off” on each and every one. Some workarounds may be needed due to the need to perform “machinist’s repair” on any number of the parts. Obviously, there will be plenty remove & replace operations, and the dealer effort may include a good deal of “hunting for parts”, whether these be new “after-market” parts, or serviceable used ones..

JD techs coming up since 2nd generation had benefit of some pretty good shop manuals the likes of which weren’t readily available for the lettered series tractors – another point to be considered here. You will end up (perhaps) sending some parts out to specialists for refurb like the carburetor and/or magneto because dealer capacity for those tasks is generally gone.

Lack of good shop manuals is one issue, but even more severe is the lack of everyday hands-on savvy that JD techs of “the era” had with a two cylinder tractor. And so the client should realize there will be some “coming up to speed” in a few areas of the tractor that the in-house techs will experience.

Finally, the client should be briefed that when it comes to parts, if replacement parts are still valid in the JD pipeline, that’s where they will come from – and some of them can be very pricey!

Now, if it is you who will be doing the bulk of the work, there are publications like Green and Two-Cylinder Magazines you will need immediately, for they bridge those with needs to those who can satisfy them. They also open up a host of folks who can be helpful to you in this endeavor. Further, you are welcome to write me in confidence for some added insight about how the restoration community actually works, and a little about “who’s who” for some specialty things. My email is open. (PatB)

 

[Dave H]

It sounds like you are talking about someone who is loaded with money that is burning a hole in his pocket. If he is happy, let the good time roll.

I met a millionaire farmer at the local parade last year who was driving his daddy's Ollie 60. He paid 6000 in labor alone on the restoration of the tractor. It sure loked nice. He is happpy, I am happy with the trctor I worked on for a year, what is the deal?

There are certain people who take pride in how much money they have wrapped up in something that means nothing to other people.

From a management perspective, it would appear that you are on the verge of getting thin ice under you in respect to company loyalty, minding your own business, etc If the team you are on is in the business of maximizing profits and you work against that, well you are in the best situation to figure that out.

JMHO

 

[Mike M]

Since you have tractor experience you will be fine as long as it is a model that a factory service manual is available for.
The biggest thing you will run into is the fact that something you are able to do on a newer tractor will take you 2x to 3x or more ? longer on this old stuff due to design and due to RUST and previous attempts and things cobbled up years before.

I applaud your having a conscience (sp?) I too have one and have faced this very delemia before. But unlike your boss I have turned away some stuff and I have reduced/adjusted my rates ( to my own financial detriment ) many times over just so I didn't feel like I ripped someone off.

 

[msb]

If the tractor has sentimental value then 10 -12 grand might not mean as much to him as a very good restoration job would.We are not talking practicality here. Main things to check and restore are loose and worn parts like carb shafts and governor shafts,clutch operating parts, a few seals,gasakets, drawbars and the like. If you were trained on new generation tractors like I was , you will know what to do. Those old 2 bangers were pretty simply but strangely built.I really appreciate your integrity in this matter and I would think you should be able to do a "bang" up job for that kind of money.

Here are 2 good places to start looking for parts:


http://brillman.com/product_info.php?products_id=87

http://www.millertire.com/

 

[Anonymous-0]

two more cents here, the owner must be made aware of all potential costs involved, expected and unexpected. nailing him down to specifics on the extent of the restoration would definately be encouraged. maybe the mechanicaly sound restoration you could perform at his shop while giving your employer all of the available part business. that way everyone is still involved, the costs will be justified to the owner of the restore piece and the employer still gets his profit through the parts because the owner of the piece trusts you and your employer then and has numerous repeat business encounters.as far as paint, body work, and all the final touches, the owner should definately consider outside sources depending upon the investment, so that everyone involved has bragging rights when she is completed. tough situation to deal with, but as long as everyone can sleep at night, all is well.

 

[Machinery-Man]

If frankness applies here, I would be very hesitant to work or even try a restoration on machinery design I knew nothing about. The learning curve can be slow on items where parts aren't readily available. Personally I would recommend to the person an arrangement with the assistance of a quailified restorer either at your shop or elsewhere. Money sounds good but to spend a lot of time on the job training is not a good business arrangement.

 

[Glen D Anderson]

If it were me..........

I'd urge my boss to be up front with the fellow/customer about the fact that he may be paying for me to "earn while I learn" due to my in-experience with the 2 lungers..........if the customer is OK with that then I'd proceed with the job having a clear conscience..........

If my boss figured we should just keep that info. under our hat and tell the customer we can handle the project - no problem, I'd be phoning the customer that evening directing him to this board since I'm sure there several people here that be more than happy to tackle a project like that at rate far less that $75.00 per hour........and if word got back to my boss of what I did and he decided to fire me, well...........I'm not sure I wanted to work for a crook like that anyway............

That's what I'd do................

Glen

 

[Hoss In ME]

Crooked dealer in my mind.Id take the guy aside and talk about the situation and offer to do the job at your place and let him do the deciding.I have done this before and it worked out real well.Some people appreciate honesty. Hoss

 

[Mike M]

Forgot to add that the idea Pat brought up of having the owner sign off on stuff he wants to cut corners on is a good idea as is sitting down with the owner and finding out EXACTLY what he wants and put some stuff in writing.
If both parties can agree and go into this with eyes wide open then it is a win win for all.

 

[Greg in MO]

There are many company's that specialize in tractor restoration, and if there is one near this fellow he should get estimates from both your dealership and the specialists and compare. The specialists should be able to give them a better idea of cost than you though, since they will have a better idea of how long things take.

You mentioned the midwest. There are several restorers in the midwest area. Just google it.

That said, if you are up front about the costs and the customer just finds it more convenient to have you do it and doesn't care about the cost, then I say enjoy learning how these beautiful tractors work.

If an idiot like me can figure them out, anyone can, especially a trained mechanic.

Greg

 

[Anonymous-0]

A big thank you very much to everyone for the information, the advice, and the offers.

It looks like this could be a winter job. Seems this customer isn't in as big a hurry as I believed. Hopefully, the delay will buy us enough time to sort out what is desired.