Why bale throwers/wagons?

[Ian Jones, Nanaimo, Can]

I see alot of stuff on bale throwers and wagons on this site and was wondering about pro's/con's compared to using a NH bale wagon. It seems it must be hard on the bales with a thrower and a lot of work to pull the bales out of the racks when loaded.

 

[Leroy]

Actually not hard on the bales or hard to unload and one person can put up the whole crop and get in under cover in just about the same time as just baleing on the ground for those bale wagons. You can own a hundred of the bale wagons for the price of a New holland bale wagon and then after you have baled on the ground you still have to spend the time to go out and pick the bales up or else have somebody else to do that while you bale. You can also budjet your time in getting the bales into the mow, instead of stacking the loads in the yard wating to be put up in the mow for when extra help is avaible. And also the bales are made smaller so that us that are not made like Atlas or a weight lifter can handle them. Also you may have to stack on wet groung to make spoilage. If you have sheds you can back the New Holland in and dump then it is not as bad with them as if you have to unload by hand into an upstairs mow.

 

[Michael Soldan]

Ian you are probably correct ,but..the days of hiring students or casual workers to hay are long gone, a thrower and bale wagon eliminates a man on the wagon stacking, in fact working alone a farmer can fill two or three bale wagons , then go unload them and go back at it. Ideally you would have someone to unload onto an elevator and a stacker in the barn. In days gone by we would have at least four people haying..one in the barn one at the elevator unloading one on the wagon stacking and one bringing wagons back and forth..just can't find help willing to do that kind of work.

 

[Ian Jones, Nanaimo, Can]

One the west coast our baling window is so short we count the baling time in minutes.(Dew comes in at 8:00 pm, leaves about 11:00 am in the dead of summer)When we start baling there is no stopping. With two good balers in the field and heavy first cut timothey grass we can do about 500 per hr. With a 1033 NH bale wagon (105 bale load) I can haul around 3 lds an hour. Most of our barns are 70-90 years old and designed for loose hay(big families, lots of kids back in the day)So we dump in front and have a crew of about 4 guys stacking/dragging them in there. Have removed the lofts from hay barns and stack on asphalt(no spoilage with oil based pavement) floors to the roof. We find it is easier to hire another guy than bother with an elavator. We have to pay pretty good($15.00 per hr) because it is the worst job around. 300 bales an hour doesn't give alot of breaks.

 

[Leroy]

This part of Ohio you would be luckey to find that many people to unload 2 weeks after the hay was dumped in the yard and rained on two or three times. With wagons you can get them under cover or cover with tarps and keep dry until unloading help is avaible and still keep the bales off wet ground.

 

[Ian Jones, Nanaimo, Can]

With the unemployment down there? You would think there would be a line up. My best crew up here is a group of guys from the Ladysmith indian reserve. They phone me when the sun is out and show up and giver till it's done. 15 years, never been stuck for a crew. They like the NH wagons too because they don't have to go out in the sun and throw them on a truck/trailer. Maybee that helps. As far as cost of a wagon I paid $5500.oo for mine outa Alberta. It was pretty much mint.

 

[paul]

Where you live the concern is getting the crop too dry.

Here in the middle or eastern part of the USA, the problem is ever getting the hay dry enough to bale. Once it's baled, we want it out of the field so it stays dry.

Our window for baling also is measured in minutes. From about 11:00am until 6:00pm. Rest of the day is far too much dew. A rain storm can brew up in 30 minutes. I want the bales on wheels right behind the baler, & under a roof. Right now. Can't afford to bale the bales and leave them lay on the ground - rain will come and wreck them.

Labor is tough here - if you don't have family members, you are on your own. Everyone has a 'real' job and can only help you out after they get off work. Could've had 2 rains by then, don't want the bales sitting on the ground!

Also hay operations are a lot smaller around here - figure feeding 60 dairy cows, that is how much hay is grown. Or less. Many folks with 5 horses or less bale their own too. Smaller operations.

Mind you, there are a lot of the NH wagons in use, but throwers are probably more popular. Myself I have a bale basket.

--->Paul

 

[Anonymous-0]

Ian, In 1976 I bought a new baler, debated this question then. Decided on a NH 1034, 105 bale capacity. Have baled 15 to 25,000 per year since. In a very short time I was certain it was the right choice. My crew consists of me and someone who can drive the tractor on the baler with enough knowledge to keep it on the windrow and stop if something is not right. The weather in SE Minn. is not always the best, I have never lost any hay. I fill sheds and haymows, when they are full I stack outside and cover with tarps, have had as many as 12,000 like that without loss. After 32 years I guess the wagon has paid for itself. Probably the most important thing is a baler which makes good uniform bales, and I like the 60 pound bales, smaller ones would only mean more of them. Good luck, Chuck

 

[Kelly C]

I am going to thrower this year. Can not count on help. On Monday " Sure no problem" On Sat with bales coming out the back. "Sorry cant come today going to the cities with my friends"

Setting up my operation for just me. if I get help then thats a bonus.

 

[kyhayman]

Here, its below 6 percent even now with the economy in the tank. Most everyone who wants a job has one. Its not a question of price, its finding someone at any price.

I had a NH bale wagon for a long time, 1034, and it made me money. I dont like kickers/throwers for me as it would mean I would need dedicated wagons to throw into, I also use mine to move round bales. Other limits on why we dont see more NH bale wagons is dump height. If you dump on the ground you lose the bottom bales, if you try to put the hay up off the ground you have to handle it again. Familiarity is also a huge concern. I've brought several in here to resell, and done well. A lot of people dont want to sink that much money into something sight unseen. For me, its a 1200 mile round trip to find enough of them to get the price right. I'm not going back to one. Square bales just arent making me what they used to compared to round bales. I can sell another 1000 round bales beyond what Im growing now but I cant sell another 12-15000 squares, at least not for over 4.50 a bale.

 

[Cummins 1955]

The guy who comes and bales my straw on shares has a thrower. He uses 20 & 24 foot wagons. the thrower gets the bales to the back of the wagon. The tractor driver slows the belts down as the wagon fills. I watched him fill the front with him catching them in the air. Pretty smart if you ask me! 300 bales a wagon times 6 wagons = good afternoon. He then gets evening help to unload.

 

[Ian Jones, Nanaimo, Can]

Kyhayman
Here's one for you. We paved our long bale shed with highway asphalt. Paid for it the first year. The oil in the mix seals the floor and eliminates moisture transfer. No more moldy/ dirty bottom bales. Bottom layer = 500 bales at $8.00 per bale =$4000.00 .Bill was $4200.00 few years ago. Had a paving crew do it with the highway paver. Done in two hours. Super easy to clean out, just drop the bucket and push.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I can GUARANTEE you that you would not be able to get ANY Indians to unload bales around here and I am within 60 miles of three reservations and 80 miles to another.

 

[tim(in)]

and to think when i was a kid and the neighbors were going to bale hay, i was there begging to help like they were doing me a favor! lol

 

[Don-Wi]

Most of those people don't want to do real work, therefore noone is around to help. The only people we can get to help with our hay already have jobs (including myself) and we can only get help on weekends and weeknights. We stack hay on wagons instead of a kicker, but there are times where a kicker would be nice.

We have nowhere to go with a bale wagon, as we stack it in the barn. Need to use an elevator. Also like some of the others have said, we need to get it baled and off the feild, or else it would probably get rained on.

As soon as the dew is off, we gotta go. Sometimes we get lucky and can bale from 11 am till 8 or 9 at night. Most days we can only go till 7. Then my wife helps my mom milk cows and my dad, myself, and any help we can get unload what we can so we can do it all over again the next day.

 

[jason blenis]

Ian,
The primary reason for not using a stack wagon here in central pa is most of the farms including mine in very hilly , sidehill ground in nature . The NH rep tells me that a stack wagon is less than ideal for sidehill , hilly work , apparently the unit has trouble handling the bales in this terrain , maybe u can shed some light to this.
also to adress the unployment down here . they claim it is up 7% . with that being said it is winter so 3% are seasonal workers that collect every year and have been for years . they dont want to work . 3 % are un employable they are the product of the quality parenting and lack of discipline in the home , school, and society . they not only have no skills but they are frankly dumb , defiant , and , demanding . wont work for less than 25 an hour . the only decent workers seem to originate on farms .
1% have actually suffered curcumstance to warrant being unemployed , and many of these people get denied benefits because they dont know how to play the game . the way the seasonal year after year collector like to manipulate the system . BUT DONT WORRY YOUR SOUTHERN NEIBHORS WILL BE OK . WE HAVE A NEW PRESIDENT AND NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES IT WILL BE GOOD FOR EVERYBODY ! at least that what the TERRORISTS THINK !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ian Jones, Nanaimo, Can]

Now you have the right outlook. After tuesday the ressession was over! Get shopping. Maybe start with a bale wagon. As far as hills, we farm on an island in very small fields between mountains. The 1033 NH works on hills, you just have to be carefull. Don't go down steep parts picking. Pick up hill no problem, side hills are OK just gentle. With All the twists and turns in our fields a thrower would have the bales in trees, powerlines etc.

 

[Mel in SW Iowa]

I just bought a pull type NH 1010 Bale Wagon. It loads 56 on the back plus 8 on the second table.
It and a few of the larger bale wagons unload off
the side onto a bale elevator as well as well as unload a stack off the back. I didn't realize
for years that some models of the NH bale wagons unload off the side.

 

[kyhayman]

Thats a really good idea. I'm not sure what the economics of it would be today. Last hot mix I bought was 115.00 a ton in 2006. I priced it last year at 305.00 a ton. For me, its more a question of selling that many bales period. My market has changed a lot since about 2005. Almost all my square bale sales now are direct delivery in season. Winter sales are almost all inside stored, horse quality, 4x4 rounds.

 

[Larry NE IL]

I use an accumulator and a grapple. Put up 500 in one day myself under roof. It's the greatest thing sinced sliced bread for a bad back!
Larry NE IL :>)

 

[tom burlingham]

Think about the wagons as transport pods to deliver the hay to the customers. We had two NH stack wagons and 6 thrower racks. For selling use the wagons, to store use the stackers. The bottom roller on the thrower tips up out of the way for a quick changeover to either setup. good luck

 

[Shetland Sheepdog]

(quoted from post at 09:21:52 01/23/09) I see alot of stuff on bale throwers and wagons on this site and was wondering about pro's/con's compared to using a NH bale wagon. It seems it must be hard on the bales with a thrower and a lot of work to pull the bales out of the racks when loaded.

I've been using a bale thrower and "kicker racks" for years. I've had a "pan kicker" (on a NH 315) for a lot of years and changed to a NH 570 with a "belt thrower" 2 years ago! I was/am satisfied with either! That said, I would have a New Holland automatic bale wagon in a heart beat, IF I had a suitable storage shed! :shock: What hay I store goes on the second floor of an old hen house! :roll: The single bale unload on some bale wagons would work, BUT it's gotta be unloaded before you can get another load! :?
Dave 8)

 

[Leroy]

But with the single bale unload what happens if you are by yourself and you start the unload and it takes you 2 or 3 times as long to get into the mow to start as it takes the bale wagon to start its cycle and there is no place at the top of elevator for extra bales to drop, you have to be there to grab each as it comes off the elevator or if it takes you twice as long to stack the bales as the wagon allows you to do?

 

[Anonymous-0]

Leroy, The wagon unloads at the speed determined by the tractor throttle. It will work for one man or three in the mow, a simple tug on a rope will stop or start it. Chuck

 

[Shetland Sheepdog]

(quoted from post at 13:25:30 01/26/09) Leroy, The wagon unloads at the speed determined by the tractor throttle. It will work for one man or three in the mow, a simple tug on a rope will stop or start it. Chuck

Chuck, now you've got me interested! : However, I'd want to see it work! :shock: I am looking at a situation where I'd need to unload onto a conveyor by myself. :roll: Most of my hay is sold off the "kicker wagons", but I still need to store some!
Dave 8)

 

[relaurain]

How can one person unload a catcher wagon by himself? Do you just throw them over the side and then get down and stack them?

 

[Shetland Sheepdog]

(quoted from post at 21:36:42 01/26/09) How can one person unload a catcher wagon by himself? Do you just throw them over the side and then get down and stack them?

Funny that you should ask! :lol: I suppose that my uncle's way might work (although he used a pickup) He had a 30 ft conveyor with VERY slow gearing and a switch for the electric motor at both top and bottom! :roll: He would start the conveyor and put bales on one against the next until it was full and a couple had fallen off the other end, then shut it off. He would then climb up to the loft, start it again and stack the bales until it was empty. He would then shut it off, climb back down and repeat the process! :roll: :lol: :shock: What ever it takes! :lol: :lol:
Dave 8)

 

[Anonymous-0]

Shetland Sheepdog, {Do you raise them?} It does work quite well, I will tell some of the basics. First you need good uniform well packed bales, the wagon must set very close to level, it is best to have a veiw of the wagon from the mow. You mentioned a conveyor, an elevater is better because of the wide flights and the tapered sides to catch and align the bales. I know only the 1034 wagon, I have no idea how similar other models are. The wagon is made of 4 parts, first is the loader - remove chute from baler and replace with a 1/4 bale turner, bales must lay on edge. Loader picks up bales and turns them unto the fist table , strings up, the third bale trips it and it flips them up unto the second table on edge. Five times of that and it trips putting them up into the rolling rack, strings up, the rolling rack moves back with each successive row. Seven times and you have a full load. To stack it sets them up on edge in a stack 3 wide, 5 deep, and seven high. To hold the stack together you can cross tie the bales in the 5th row while it is on the second table or I wrap a rope around it then. Either have a good shed wall or build a bulkhead out of bales to start a row of stacks. To single bale unload the second table has a cross chain near the rear driven by a hydraulic motor, [the machine has its own pto driven hydraulic system.] The second table is raised to about a 30 degree angle, so the bales will slide to the rear as they are run off, a set of six fingers rotate up through the floor of the table shoving the front 4 rows away from the 5th. The chain then turns pushing the fifth row either left or right, then the fingers release allowing the other four rows to slide back. The fingers again seperate and the fourth row goes. After the table is empty the operator pulls a lever and holds it until the table goes up close to the other bales, the rolling rack moves ahead pushing the next row unto the second table, when the lever is released the table returns to the 30 degree angle and it is ready to go again. To do so from the barn tie a rope to the lever on the right side, it has an in-out motion, the left has a front and back action, I have not tried to figure a way to use it. I am 20 miles SW of Rochester Minn, You would be welcome to see it in action, Good luck, Chuck

 

[BobH in NH]

Kids are grown up, married and have kids so my help has mostly disappeared. My daughter bought me a bale loader for birthday a number of years ago - Works great but you still need a second person or a truck or wagon with sides. This year my daughter and son-in-law gave me their round baler (They switched to 4' x 4' x 8' squares because of the short haying times in northern Maine). Greatest thing since sliced bread and PB!!! Only issue was loading in the field with a 3PT Hitch Spear. Most of mine are stored outside on pallets, 3-high and tarped.