...new to this whole tractor discussion forum, and wondering what the adantage is to switching my 1948 8N from 6v to 12v. aside from being able to charge it and/or jump it from the same equipment that I use for my truck... some have told me 'hotter spark', etc... wondering if there's a more compelling reason...?
Ducky.......lottza discussion in the archives on this subject.
The BIGGEST reason to change to 12-volts is a BAND-AIDE to worn-out engine. 12v on a 6-volt starter really SPINS the engine for faster starts. And no, it doesn't burn the 6v-starter motor out.
The WORST reason to change to 12-volt is 'cuz Bubba down at the corner spittin'n'whittlin' club sez "its the thang to do, yep" as he draw 'nutter sip on his barley pop, "thang to do". You been talkin' to Bubba aint'cha???
Hotter sparkies has 'nuttin' to do with it, except burning out yer squarecan ignition coil; and then you gitt NO sparkies at all. .......Dell, a 12-volt advocate for the right reasons.
That said, I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6-volt 52-8N and I know how to do it right the first time. Infact, I know 8-ways to do it and they all work.
The BIGGEST reason to change to 12-volts is a BAND-AIDE to worn-out engine. 12v on a 6-volt starter really SPINS the engine for faster starts. And no, it doesn't burn the 6v-starter motor out.
The WORST reason to change to 12-volt is 'cuz Bubba down at the corner spittin'n'whittlin' club sez "its the thang to do, yep" as he draw 'nutter sip on his barley pop, "thang to do". You been talkin' to Bubba aint'cha???
Hotter sparkies has 'nuttin' to do with it, except burning out yer squarecan ignition coil; and then you gitt NO sparkies at all. .......Dell, a 12-volt advocate for the right reasons.
That said, I haven't found the right reason for my eazy starting 6-volt 52-8N and I know how to do it right the first time. Infact, I know 8-ways to do it and they all work.
Ken Crisman
Member
Hi New to the Tractor world . Well as Dell spit out after his chawin ; changing to 12v battery is an expensive band aide covering up problems that should be taken care of instead of switchin . The 6v system worked for many more years than I know personally . So why not now ? Well some reasons is because of rust , corrosion , or new paint under electrical connections . Remedy is to remove all connections , clean the areas up so they are shiny & brite . Repair the areas if rusted thru . Clean all terminal ends so they are shiny & brite also . Now smear some dielectric grease on all wire connections & tighten good . Oops , forgot to make sure the 6v battery is good or not & fully charged . Next check all the components in the electrical system like resisters , starter safety switch & solonoid, ignition switch ,coil , VR, plugs & wires . Now check the starter ,generator , & distributor . Dell ole boy , did I miss anything & how did I do ? HTH ! But after all this is done & Aok , & you still aren't satisfied with the speed of the 6v battery , well get yerself an 8v battery , have the VR tweaked so its putting the correct current back into the battery & Njoy a faster staring N or hundred series tractor . That's what I did & have had no problems since 2000 . Though I did replace the battery once after 5 yrs of service & changed 1 headlite bulb . I do hth . I'm sure others will disagree with me on something but that's ok . I'm still young at heart & learning . God bless, Ken
Ducks:
The advantages of converting to 12V have been well covered by others. I might add that it is easier to operate modern accessories from 12V if you are inclined to so do.
The single most significant disadvantage is the increased shock loads applied to the starter drive and flywheel ring gear when a 6V starter is routinely operated from a 12V source.
Dean
The advantages of converting to 12V have been well covered by others. I might add that it is easier to operate modern accessories from 12V if you are inclined to so do.
The single most significant disadvantage is the increased shock loads applied to the starter drive and flywheel ring gear when a 6V starter is routinely operated from a 12V source.
Dean
I have an origional 6 volt system still in use on my '46 2N. This tractor cranks right up and runs fine even if the temp is below freezing. It's kept in an unheated shed. I know of no reason to convert to 12 volt as long as the 6 volt does the job. The secret is to have a good running, well tuned engine; the 6 volt will do the rest.
Mr. Bob
Mr. Bob
...well, butter my butt an' call me a biskit...three replies before I can even git brekfast...Thanky Guys!!!...I finally found a place with straight shooters who seem to know somethin' 'bout whut they're talkin' 'bout...an' ain't 'fraid t'say it...THANK YOU!!!...'preciate it, fellers...
...'prolly should'a told you guys the reason I had t'ask th' question is cuz... I AM Bubba... an' when I hooked my charger to the battery after wearing it down trying to start it, I used the onliest setting on the charger for 6v, which was "6v 40amp" and "6v 100 amp Engine Start"...same setting...
...ennywhey, I prolly burned out a buncha stuff and since I created this problem all by myself and will prolly be lookin' at replacing most of that same buncha stuff, I thought it might be a good time to think about what some say is an improvement by changing to the 12v... again, THANKY fer th' info!!... I'll let ya now how it all turns out...
... what's "HTH"????
...'prolly should'a told you guys the reason I had t'ask th' question is cuz... I AM Bubba... an' when I hooked my charger to the battery after wearing it down trying to start it, I used the onliest setting on the charger for 6v, which was "6v 40amp" and "6v 100 amp Engine Start"...same setting...
...ennywhey, I prolly burned out a buncha stuff and since I created this problem all by myself and will prolly be lookin' at replacing most of that same buncha stuff, I thought it might be a good time to think about what some say is an improvement by changing to the 12v... again, THANKY fer th' info!!... I'll let ya now how it all turns out...
... what's "HTH"????
Bruce (VA)
Well-known Member
From my experience, I've only found two reasons to convert an N to 12v: If you need to run 12v equipment (sprayers, pumps, lights, etc) or your N has poor compression (like less than 90 lbs) and you do not want to rebuild it, then a 12v conversion makes sense. Otherwise, you will likely be trading one set of problems for another. If your N is hard to start in cold weather (or any weather) find out why & fix it! These tractors have low compression, low HP engines and will start just fine on 6v. There is nothing inherently 'wrong' w/ a 12v conversion. The problem is that there are about 6 different ways to convert the tractor to 12v, all of them work, and an infinite number of ways to do it wrong. It's like this...............if you have a basic understanding of tractor mechanics, you can buy a quality kit & do it correctly. Of course, if you have a basic understanding of tractor mechanics, you could just as easily fix the problem that you are trying to cure with the 12v conversion. Most problems we read about w/ 12v conversions are as a result of folks getting in over their heads or buying tractors w/ "Bubba" conversions, and now the new owner is stuck with trying to figure it out. All four of my N's are 6v & they all four start the first time, every time, no matter what the weather. You will find that to be the case with folks who live in a lot of places much colder than VA.
If you need to jump your 6v battery w/ a 12v battery, check out tip # 43 at the link below.
Here is a nice quote from this board re a 12v conversion:
“My starter motor quit turning the engine over. There was no click or anything on my 1947 2N.
I could hand crank the engine fine.
I got some new battery cables and cable to the starter which fixed it.
It really cranks up well now. I've got the original 6v system, and with the new cables it cranks up like it did when I had to jump it from a 12v back when I picked up the tractor from my grandfather earlier this summer.
It starts up immediately. Previously it had the original 1947 cables, which upon inspection had the inner strand wires corroded/severed.
Some of you guys thinking of doing a 12V conversion, if you don't need the 12V for some other electronics, might just need replacement battery cables.”
Did you boil the battery? If so, get out the baking soda & water & start cleaning up the tractor or the battery acid will eat up everything it touches.
Hope This Helps (HTH).
50 Tips
If you need to jump your 6v battery w/ a 12v battery, check out tip # 43 at the link below.
Here is a nice quote from this board re a 12v conversion:
“My starter motor quit turning the engine over. There was no click or anything on my 1947 2N.
I could hand crank the engine fine.
I got some new battery cables and cable to the starter which fixed it.
It really cranks up well now. I've got the original 6v system, and with the new cables it cranks up like it did when I had to jump it from a 12v back when I picked up the tractor from my grandfather earlier this summer.
It starts up immediately. Previously it had the original 1947 cables, which upon inspection had the inner strand wires corroded/severed.
Some of you guys thinking of doing a 12V conversion, if you don't need the 12V for some other electronics, might just need replacement battery cables.”
Did you boil the battery? If so, get out the baking soda & water & start cleaning up the tractor or the battery acid will eat up everything it touches.
Hope This Helps (HTH).
50 Tips
peter in the north
Member
The Urban Dictionary gives this definition of the acronym ....
2. HTH 136 up, 54 down
An acronym standing for "hope this helps", used sarcastically after answering a dumb question or pointing out an obvious oversight to a person of inferior mental qualities. Limited generally to message board posting.
Bill M (OH)
New User
I converted our 861 to 12 volts many years ago, because it sits out in the weather unused for months and the starter shaft would get a real thin film of rust on it which would sometimes keep the bendix from throwing in. Would have to pull the starter and clean up the shaft. Got tired of that, so converted to 12 volts and no more trouble - cheaper than building a new shed.....
That said, both my N's are shedded and remain on 6 volts, which works fine.
That said, both my N's are shedded and remain on 6 volts, which works fine.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Ducks - After all the discusion about why not to switch to 12 V let me tell you a story. My dad's 9N was 6 volt for many years and I have countless memories of the thing not starting and listening to it crank and crank and crank. Also jumping it with a vehicle and having all the sparks. Which I now know was dangerous. I do accept the fact it may not have been properly maintained. Hell who has time for that. The tractor was converted over to 12V about 15 years ago and is now mine. It fires instantly every time and it still has the original 12V battery and cables. I have done zero maintenance to this 12V system for 15 years and have had no isses. For me the conversion has been great. I do understand all the other variables including that I do keep the rest of the tractor maintained.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
"adantage is to switching "
Parts a cheaper and readily available,,, 12V will out preform 6v any day of the week. I don't see any disadvantage to move'n up so no need to spank ya for the thought :lol: ,,, Bubba's and front mount P.O.S. coils give 12V a bad rap,,, theirs realy not a plug and play coil available
so like set'n up a VCR :? Bub has to do some research. A side mount system is a cake walk cuzz a plug and play coil is readily available cheap.I grew up in a 12v world, like the dependability,,, may-B one day when I have nuttin else to do I mite could learn to fudge with a 6v set up
I usually put my own components together for the conversion,,, a packaged deal looked and was tempting so I fell off the wagon and ordered up a kit,,, was not surprised to find that Bub slung components in the kit that were not compatible. Now the consumer is really cornfused,,, does not understand how a 6v set up works and now had a kit in a shake and bake box that don't work either,,, and still does not know what his original problem was,,,, mechanical are electrical
If you decide to go 12v theirs plenty of good info to git ya up and run'n trouble free,,, its just not in a shake and bake box
I would like to add one more thing to Hobo's good comments. That is, for ~90+% of owners, they are better off leaving 'stock', because the proper conversion is, to be nice, "too adventuresome" and they wind up with a mess and in deep dodo. For Hobo and a generous double handful of folks who post here, it is a cake walk.(quoted from post at 11:02:34 10/25/08)
"adantage is to switching "
Parts a cheaper and readily available,,, 12V will out preform 6v any day of the week. I don't see any disadvantage to move'n up so no need to spank ya for the thought :lol: ,,, Bubba's and front mount P.O.S. coils give 12V a bad rap,,, theirs realy not a plug and play coil available
I grew up in a 12v world, like the dependability,,, may-B one day when I have nuttin else to do I mite could learn to fudge with a 6v set up
I usually put my own components together for the conversion,,, a packaged deal looked and was tempting so I fell off the wagon and ordered up a kit,,, was not surprised to find that Bub slung components in the kit that were not compatible. Now the consumer is really cornfused,,, does not understand how a 6v set up works and now had a kit in a shake and bake box that don't work either,,, and still does not know what his original problem was,,,, mechanical are electrical
If you decide to go 12v theirs plenty of good info to git ya up and run'n trouble free,,, its just not in a shake and bake box
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
My dad bought a used 2N in 1952. I grew up operating it starting at age 6. Dad keeps the tractor sheltered, lubed and has only replaced the battery twice, with the last change in 1985. Last winter I plowed his drive, and it started (6V sitting 4 days) after turning over 4 times. His philosophy is "Take care of it, and it will take care of you" The only tractor we switched to 12V was a W6, so halogen work lights could be used
Is an Urban Dictionary that book colored people use to explain [i:3646fd80f5]ebonics[/i:3646fd80f5]? :lol:
I guess I'm not urban since the only time I've used HTH or seen it used it was meant as a very cordial & sincere "Hope this helps".
Maybe some "ferner" wrote that dictionary.....
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You dont need 12 volts,my 6v tractor sawed up and hauled in 6 cord of wood in 2 week ends.This has a cash value of 1800 bucks.Keep the old Ford in gas and oil and it will do the work....
Two reasons:
First, to aid in starting. However, if it is kept in tune, there will not be a problem starting.
Second, 12 volt system will give better lights for working at night. However, on one should work at night anyway.
A good reason for not changing: The original parts will "disappear" and when after you die, the person who gets it will want to restore to original for use in shows will have a harder time in the process. All our Ns will eventually be sought after antiques...give a little though for the future history; do not convert.
It is an ingenious solution to a none existant problem.
First, to aid in starting. However, if it is kept in tune, there will not be a problem starting.
Second, 12 volt system will give better lights for working at night. However, on one should work at night anyway.
A good reason for not changing: The original parts will "disappear" and when after you die, the person who gets it will want to restore to original for use in shows will have a harder time in the process. All our Ns will eventually be sought after antiques...give a little though for the future history; do not convert.
It is an ingenious solution to a none existant problem.
In my opinion, there are probably several good reasons to go to a 12V system.
A bit more margin to get an adequate spark from an ignition system that isn't kept well maintained. 50% more energy is available to spark a plug.( Ref. Internal Combustion Engines by E.F Obert 2nd Ed, p.480)(Not everybody has the time or the inclination to futz around setting points, changing plugs,etc if the tractor is in ranch or farm use.)
6V batteries are more expensive and little harder to find that 12V batteries. (You can find 12 V batteries just about anywhere, WalMart, Sears, etc.)
It's realtively cheap and easy to do modification.
Finally, if you want to go to electronic ignition, they are almost all 12 negative ground systems.
Your money, your tractor, your choice.
A bit more margin to get an adequate spark from an ignition system that isn't kept well maintained. 50% more energy is available to spark a plug.( Ref. Internal Combustion Engines by E.F Obert 2nd Ed, p.480)(Not everybody has the time or the inclination to futz around setting points, changing plugs,etc if the tractor is in ranch or farm use.)
6V batteries are more expensive and little harder to find that 12V batteries. (You can find 12 V batteries just about anywhere, WalMart, Sears, etc.)
It's realtively cheap and easy to do modification.
Finally, if you want to go to electronic ignition, they are almost all 12 negative ground systems.
Your money, your tractor, your choice.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I farmed for decades with 6 volts. It works good in a well maintained tractor. 8 volt batttery will work. Do Not use the cheapest battery.
You can junp start a 6v with 12 v
You can junp start a 6v with 12 v
Well...I can't resist. :twisted: Just me and Hobo carrying the 12v torch???
Bettie....The '49 8n I have just about completed the restoration of is getting two non-stock additions. A 12v electrical system and a digital tach/hourmeter. I guess we won't be able to take her to any shows! A social outcast.
The tach/hourmeter is a no-brainer but why 12v you ask. Because it makes for a more reliable electrical system.
My reasons are:
1. Battery readily available and usually cheaper than 6v.
2. Battery cables don't need to be 00 size....2 awg work fine.
3. Less voltage drop in wiring due to less current.
4. Lighting is brighter.
5. More margin for error when battery is low or points wear.
6. More options for charging the battery.
7. Six volt starter spins faster on 12v for quicker starts.
I'll stop there. Now many of the folks on this forum will tell you that their bone stock 6v N starts everytime in 1/8 of a revolution of the crank and that is wonderful. I suspect that those tractors are very well maintained.
Don't convert it to "fix" a problem. Convert it to improve it if YOU decide that is what you want to do. It's your tractor!
Ike - The slowest tractor mechanic in the USA
Bettie....The '49 8n I have just about completed the restoration of is getting two non-stock additions. A 12v electrical system and a digital tach/hourmeter. I guess we won't be able to take her to any shows! A social outcast.
The tach/hourmeter is a no-brainer but why 12v you ask. Because it makes for a more reliable electrical system.
My reasons are:
1. Battery readily available and usually cheaper than 6v.
2. Battery cables don't need to be 00 size....2 awg work fine.
3. Less voltage drop in wiring due to less current.
4. Lighting is brighter.
5. More margin for error when battery is low or points wear.
6. More options for charging the battery.
7. Six volt starter spins faster on 12v for quicker starts.
I'll stop there. Now many of the folks on this forum will tell you that their bone stock 6v N starts everytime in 1/8 of a revolution of the crank and that is wonderful. I suspect that those tractors are very well maintained.
Don't convert it to "fix" a problem. Convert it to improve it if YOU decide that is what you want to do. It's your tractor!
Ike - The slowest tractor mechanic in the USA
peter in the north
Member
Here is the link to the Urban Dictionary. http://www.urbandictionary.com/ I use it to try to figger out what the kids are saying. Sometimes their definitions are right on the money, some aren't.
I certainly didn't want to disrespect anyone on this board. I've never seen folks play as nice on a message board as you folks do.
Guess I deserved the "Canadian" comment.
Peter
(quoted from post at 01:33:01 10/26/08) Well...I can't resist. :twisted: Just me and Hobo carrying the 12v torch???
Bettie....The '49 8n I have just about completed the restoration of is getting two non-stock additions. A 12v electrical system and a digital tach/hourmeter. I guess we won't be able to take her to any shows! A social outcast.
The tach/hourmeter is a no-brainer but why 12v you ask. Because it makes for a more reliable electrical system.
My reasons are:
1. Battery readily available and usually cheaper than 6v.
2. Battery cables don't need to be 00 size....2 awg work fine.
3. Less voltage drop in wiring due to less current.
4. Lighting is brighter.
5. More margin for error when battery is low or points wear.
6. More options for charging the battery.
7. Six volt starter spins faster on 12v for quicker starts.
I'll stop there. Now many of the folks on this forum will tell you that their bone stock 6v N starts everytime in 1/8 of a revolution of the crank and that is wonderful. I suspect that those tractors are very well maintained.
Don't convert it to "fix" a problem. Convert it to improve it if YOU decide that is what you want to do. It's your tractor!
Ike - The slowest tractor mechanic in the USA
You have already seen what I had to say above. "I would like to add one more thing to Hobo's good comments. That is, for ~90+% of owners, they are better off leaving 'stock', because the proper conversion is, to be nice, "too adventuresome" and they wind up with a mess and in deep dodo. For Hobo and a generous double handful of folks who post here, it is a cake walk."
We converted my FIL's 8N 20 years ago, because I was afraid he was going to hurt himself or his wife pulling to off all the time. His maintenance philosophy was something akin to "use it til it absolutely won't run any more, then fix it". As long as he & wife could pull it, it wasn't "broke" to him. Well, he lived the rest of his life, he & his wife, thanking me regularly for making his N start every time he climbed on it.
I have it now & it is still 12v. I have a second 8N & it is 12 volts. I have a VERY original Farmall SMTA that is 6v, pos gnd. It doesn't spin as fast, but it starts every time too. I say, to each his own, but I also say read my 1st quoted remark above. Some people don't have any business doing this conversion, no matter how simple a job many of us think it is. I you don't know ANYTHING about the task, it ain't simple.
personaly i like the 6v system, but i have 12 on the jubilee because when i bought it somebody had already done a bubba joe conversion but never completed it, it was easier to just redo the mess and install a old chevy alternator than to go back to the 6v system, many 12v conversions are done to 'cure' other problems, usually those problems are either too small gauge of battery cables or dirty connections or worn starter bushings, any of those is cheaper to fix that a 12v conversion is to do, i like mine on the jubilee as the parts are in stock at carquest and my jubilee is a worker, i use it almost every day on the farm for light chores, and that means occasionaly it breaks down and i need the parts quick
The main reason i am changing to all 12 volts is this state and many others are changing laws to put the farmers road safety on himself and to protect suburbanites who are too busy to watch out for them selves driving. So now we have to festoon everything with at least one white and one red lights and preferably two of each.on each implement being pulled.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
(quoted from post at 06:33:01 10/26/08) Well...I can't resist. :twisted: Just me and Hobo carrying the 12v torch???
Bettie....The '49 8n I have just about completed the restoration of is getting two non-stock additions. A 12v electrical system and a digital tach/hourmeter. I guess we won't be able to take her to any shows! A social outcast.
The tach/hourmeter is a no-brainer but why 12v you ask. Because it makes for a more reliable electrical system.
My reasons are:
1. Battery readily available and usually cheaper than 6v.
2. Battery cables don't need to be 00 size....2 awg work fine.
3. Less voltage drop in wiring due to less current.
4. Lighting is brighter.
5. More margin for error when battery is low or points wear.
6. More options for charging the battery.
7. Six volt starter spins faster on 12v for quicker starts.
I'll stop there. Now many of the folks on this forum will tell you that their bone stock 6v N starts everytime in 1/8 of a revolution of the crank and that is wonderful. I suspect that those tractors are very well maintained.
Don't convert it to "fix" a problem. Convert it to improve it if YOU decide that is what you want to do. It's your tractor!
Ike - The slowest tractor mechanic in the USA
It really draws blood when the question comes up wif those 6V guys,,, they really don't have a good defence for the question tho they will spank ya and drag yer arse across hot coals for even thanking about a upgrade
Their sales pitch could use a upgrade of its own other than "it werks fer me"
Sept for the battery and alternator both systems are pert near the same,,, can they defend that a 6V battery is more efficient, cheaper and readily available than a 12V bat,,, can they defend that a 6v generator is more efficient, cheaper and ready available than a GM10si alt...
In doing electrical repairs you some times deal with some strange things,,, some even make doubt what you already know - or think you know
Is that not the point,,, would it not B better to chiffer out what got the guy to think'n 12V instead of personal views that differ and lead to know were,,, does the guy really need a spank'n for the thought,,, the 6v guys could do a better job on the sales pitch,,, it should B more of lets figger out what got ya here and lets cipher out your problem than go git me a switch of that their tree :lol:
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