Won't start day3

[troyr]

I have my wires ran just like DickL,My rotor rotates CCW.When I took my mag off I kept the #1 plug and wire in the cap.I put the sparkplug ontop of the metal part of the mag.Then I turned the back of the mag until the plug sparked,nice and strong by the way,then I stopped with the mag and went to the engine.I took all the plugs out and had my dad crank it over while I plugged #1 cylinder with my finger.When I felt compression I went around to the other side and started cleaning the flywheel with gas and a paint brush through the hole on the torque tube.I saw the "fire" mark and went past until I saw the "Center" mark,and stopped when it was at the center of the hole. The mag and the engine matched up real nice.Put it all back together,pulled it around...nothing.I have good spark on all four,good gas flow to the carb.Spark plugs come out wet after pulling. Another problem,maybe,is my mag has distinctive numbers on the cap starting with #1at 2 O'clock #2at5 O'clock #3at7 O'clock and #4at11 O'clock.Does everybody have those numbers? What am I doing wrong?I will try anything.Troy in Wa.

 

[Anonymous-0]

If your plugs are wet. They are fouled out. Replace them, even if they were new and see what happens.Once they get wet from gas, they won't fire under compression. Also try not to choke it much if it's getting the plugs wet.

 

[dej(Jed)]

You might have gone 1 past. For all the longer it takes, pull the mag and advance it one click.
Then try to start it. If that doesn't work, pull the mag again and go one more click. There are only 3 other possible settings. Good Luck.

 

[KEB1]

Are you absolutely certain the magneto is properly timed to the engine? From your explanation it doesn"t sound like it would be.

Take out the #1 spark plug, turn the engine over until #1 comes up on compression. The impluse on the magneto should trip at or just after top dead center as determined by the "center" timing mark (the magneto will automatically advance the spark once the engine starts). Stop at the point where the impluse trips, and take the distributor cap off the magneto. The rotor should be pointing at the position for the #1 cylinder. You can repeat the process for the other three cylinders if you want to verify that the wires are in the right order.

If the impluse doesn"t trip at or a little after TDC, or the rotor is pointing to the wrong cylinder, remove the magneto, turn the gear until the rotor points in the right direction, and re-install it. Repeat the above check for fire at or just after TDC on number one. You may then have to adjust one or two teeth to make the impulse trip at the right time. Fine adjustments are made by loosening the bolts through the mounting slots and rotating thewhole magneto a little bit.

Don"t set the magneto to make the impulse trip at the "spark" mark...that"s where its supposed to fire when its running, and the magneto will automatically advance the spark when the engine comes up to speed (actually, the impulse mechanism retards the spark for cranking). If you set the magneto timing too early, the engine will kick back & break your arm if you"re cranking, or do all sorts of nasty things to the starter if it"s got electric start.

Keith

 

[guido]

Hello troyr.
If the rotor turns counterclock wise the firing order is correct for a 1342 firing order. You need to get #1 at top dead center to verify that you have the rotor pointing at the #1 plug wire.
Guido.

 

[guido]

Hello troyr.
I took another look at your post, and I think I see the problem.
You said that the engine is at #1 with the mag. and your #1plug wire goes at 2 o'clock.
By the picture #1 is at 11 o'clock. Take a look and see for yourself. You will need to move #1 one over to the right or clockwise.The next wire that was under #1 goes were #1 wire was clockwise.
The other wires the same way from wright to left.
Guido.

 

[Dick L]

It shouldn't turn CCW. At least I never saw a B that turned that way. Or you are looking at it from the front of the tractor instead of behind of the magneto. If you have set the inside to the CCW setting it will not run. The inside gears need to be set to the CW setting. What is the make or numbers of the magneto? It looks more like a magneto I have seen on larger tractors. That should not make a difference if the drive engages as it should.

 

[Dick L]

The magneto drive on the tractor turns CW . If the rotor does turn CCW then the magneto has to be geared inside to change directions. To make that magneto work you need to find which terminal actually fires to number one plug on the compression stroke. You will then need to place the wires CCW from the number one going next to plug number two. The next plug wire will have to run to number four. The last wire will run to number three. This will have the engine firing 1-2-4-3 which is the proper firing order for your tractor. That magneto does not originally go on a B.

 

[trucker40]

Ok.Is number one the front cylinder?If it is,looks like you have it wired wrong.I think you have number one at 11 oclock,number 2 at 2 oclock,number 3 at 7 oclock,number 4 at 5 oclock.Thats if I understand what you are saying,counterclockwise rotation.If thats true,and number one is where you have it on the mag thats 11 oclock,ccw is 1342 firing order.

 

[troyr]

I haven't opened up the mag yet because it worked last August,I am willing to open it up after a few more good efforts.When I take the cap off the mag,while standing on the right side of the tractor,looking foward at the rotor.the rotor turns counter clockwise

 

[trucker40]

Ok which one is supposed to be number one,or where is the rotor pointing with number one at TDC,and whats the firing order?

 

[trucker40]

Looks like number 1 is 11 oclock,number 2 is 2 oclock,3 is at 7 oclock,4 is at 5 oclock by your picture.

 

[trucker40]

Im fairly sure you have it wired wrong by your picture.Firing order is not 1,2,4,3 is it?If it is all you need to know now is if the rotor is pointing to number one when at TDC or whatever your marks are.You might try and take out number one spark plug,look in the cylinder or take a screwdriver and put in there and have somebody turn the crank with a wrench,when the screwdriver is up all the way,but not started back down,thats TDC.Top Dead Center,also you need to be on the compression stroke,then look at your marks,if they are lined up as you describe and you have the wiring order right,pertaining to clockwise,and clean your plugs(might try heating them up with a propane torch to burn the gas off),it should fire.I dont know what all you have done to the motor,but if the valves arent adjusted right might be a problem.The plugs being wet says its drawing gas in so if you get fire at the right time in the right order should run.

 

[DickL]

The older Allis Chalmers have a firing order of 1-2-4-3

 

[Lanse]

Howdy Troy, i should point out that your pictures are what inspired me to repaing my B

 

[KEB1]

This may seem like a weird question, but has that particular engine run with that particular magneto in the past? Reason I ask is that there are two styles of four cylinder magnetos, one that turns at the same speed as the crankshaft, and fires twice per revolution, and one that turns at 1/2 the crankshaft speed and fires four times per revolution.

Comparing your photo to the one a little further down, it appears that you have one that fires four times per revolution, i.e, the rotor is connected directly to the input shaft and the center of the distributor lines up directly with the input shaft. In these magnetos the rotor turns in the same direction as the input shaft, which would also be consistent with your rotor turning counterclockwise looking at it from the rear.

The other picture shows one that fires twice per revolution, and the center of the distributor portion is offset from the input shaft because of the gears between the input shaft and the distributor rotor. In this style, the rotor also turns in the opposite direction of the input shaft, i.e, clockwise looking at it from the rear, and the rotor makes one complete revolution for every two revolutions of the input shaft.

In either case, the rotor should turn at 1/2 the speed of the crankshaft, or one complete turn of the crank should result in one half turn of the distributor rotor in the magneto. Pull the distributor cap off & check.

Realize this might be a shot in the dark, but given how much effort you've put into this just about anything is worthwhile checking.

Keith

 

[KEB1]

PS...after reading Dick L's comments below more carefully, I'll bet you have the wrong style magneto. The firing order Dick describes, and his picture, is consistent with the rotor turning clockwise looking at it from the back of the tractor, but you say yours turns counter clockwise looking at it from the back of the tractor. If so, it'll never run with that magneto....

Keith

 

[Anonymous-0]

Spent half hour trying to work out where your 12 o'clock is.
Your magento shows 1 3 4 2
Magneto markings show 1 4 3 2 so we assume incorrect.Four and one piston in same position.
To check.Remove rocker cover,Bring No 1 to TDC with valves closed and rocking.Should have spark at plug - a little.Slowly turn over by hand,assume engine goes CCW [but to check look at fan blade,if the top is dished toward motor it will be CCW sucking air through radiator.]
watch for next valves closed on 2 or 3. check spark at plug. so it's 1 - 4 - fill in gaps.

Recap.. Valves closed. No.1 on TDC. flywheel lined up. Spark at plug.
Change marks on Magneto.
Further reading your post.You say the plug fired.then saw the firing mark,passed that and lined it up with centre.Your engine should fire at ? degrees BEFORE TDC,you now appear to be out by that number of degrees and firing AFTER TDC.
Loss of power.

Check valve gap. closed on 1 with 4 rocking gap 1
3 ' 2 ' ' 3
4 ' 1 ' ' 4
2 ' 3 ' ' 2

 

[El Toro]

You need your wires on the cap installed in this order if the rotor turns CCW as you face the mag's cap. Hal
1-3
2-4

 

[Anonymous-0]

Did the manufacturer change the rotation of the magneto somewhere,because the 2nd machine [sitting in the drivers seat] is going CCW whilst the 1st is going CW.
toyr said[13.43.16 No.624061] Cap off ,standing RHS looking forward at rotor ,rotor turns CCW,He is actually on the left of the tractor facing toward the rear.Is that so?If you are looking towards the front of the tractor then firing is 1243 but you can't see the rotor from RHS.

Both tractors have identical wiring for CW, so is rotation the problem.??

 

[trucker40]

I have looked at this picture over and over and I think you have the wires on right.After thinking about it,maybe you dont have the motor on the right stroke.Either that or its advanced too much.I think the rotor should be just past the lug on the cap at TDC.It ought to hit if its right on the lug,but maybe it wont.Other than that I dont know,others have said its turning the wrong way,not the right mag,so maybe there is something else.Thinking about that,if it sparks the plug,and when you turn the motor over 2 times and its back to the same place you started at,then it doesnt matter which way it turns as long as you have the wires on in the firing order right according to whichever way it turns.I could be wrong,and the possible problem I could see is that if you turned it the other way from the way it is supposed to turn it might fire at the wrong time so as to not run.I know very little about a mag,but if you can turn it some like a distributer try that.Something tells me you are on the wrong stroke.When you crank a motor over I think there is a time when it can blow compression out the spark plug hole but its not as strong as when its on the compression stroke.I mean if it turns over fast some air could come out the spark plug hole on the exhaust stroke,but it wouldnt be very strong since the exhaust valve would be open.On the compression stroke it will blow your finger out of the hole unless the valves arent set right.Maybe you need to pull the valve cover and see if both vavles are closed on number 1 when you are at Tdc,then pull the cap and see where the rotor is pointing,that will be number 1,then use your crank cause it will have to turn the motor the right way and turn it a little,whichever way the rotor turns,thats tells you where to put number 2 wire then 4 then 3.After you get wires on the cap right,keep turning motor untill you have turned the crank 2 times,if the rotor is where you started at it should run,if its not,then you might need to ask somebody smarter than me about it.Maybe its the wrong mag?

 

[El Toro]

You can not have your plug wires connected on the
mag's cap in the 1-2-3-4 sequence. Move No1 plug wire to the the 11 o'clock terminal on the the cap. Move the No2 plug wire to the 7 o'clock
terminal on the cap. Then move No4 to 4'oclock
terminal and No3 to the 1 o'clock terminal. Then you engine will run. Hal

 

[El Toro]

Hi Troy, I don't have an old mag around here anymore to take a picture of the cap. I have a sketch showing how your plug wires should be connected on the cap as you face it. When you are installing your plug wires connect No1 as shown on the cap and to No1 sparkplug near the radiator. Then do No2 as in the sketch and connect to No2 plug. Then do No4 and then No3.
Your engine should start then. Hal