Worn rings

[caterpillar guy]

I would`say by the looks of the side clearance in picture 4 and the rings not expanding beyond the side of the piston in picture 2 that it would be a good idea to change the sleeves and a new set of rings which would come with the sleeves set along with the pistons. Yup you have been able to get by on a lot of them .this one is time for a sleeve set. You will be happier with your results doing that than to just rings. Meant the oil ring not the others they look to have good spring to them. It is possible the pistons if not new when rings were put on didn't get the groves cleaned well. Like Rust Red said if you have to much end gap or side slop in the grooves they need replaced.and I'll still stand with the side clearance in the bore looks like it could use sleeves or pistons at the least. IF you go there then might just as well put a sleeve set in it. then all is back to normal for it .

 

[rockcreek4630]

How do you determine if rings are worn out? Farmall A. Motor wasn't stuck but about half the valves were. We took care of that ,put the head back on and it smoked terrible. Looked in the plug holes and saw a large amount of oil. Pulled the head back off, pulled the pistons,all 4 had dirty, stuck oil rings. Cleaned those up, reinstalled. Fired it up ran great,no smoke......for a couple minutes,now it's smoking as bad as before . When we reinstalled the pistons the ring end gap was really close.

How do the rings fell compression wise. It my have gotten to hot and taken the temper out. Side note by your first pic the do tend to drink oil when run upside down.

 

[grandpa Love]

How do the rings fell compression wise. It my have gotten to hot and taken the temper out. Side note by your first pic the do tend to drink oil when run upside down.

No idea how I posted that picture upside down

 

[grandpa Love]

That oil looks oddly thin in the one picture
Didn't get mixed up with hydraulic oil or something silly ?

That was the old oil,we have changed it to 15w-40

 

[rustred]

That was the old oil,we have changed it to 15w-40

dont matter if you put 10wt oil in there seated rings are seated rings , its not going to smoke. plus back in the day when them tractors were new there was no multigrade oil. it was 30wt in summer then for winter u changed to 10 wt. and on overhauls many times mineral oil was put in for the first run . it was the same for vehicles. you might have to apply for an apprentice ship program and learn all about what your asking cause it dont seam you take actual advise from the pro's here. plus it seams to me i have typed up this same information on a john deere tractor u had apart. plus an engine is an engine as i say, dont matter cub or wd9 or john deere the spec's are the same principle. nobody can give a correct answer here because you have not provided any detailed spec's. where is that tractor vet ? lol.! he will type you a page of info.

 

[John Deere D]

How do you determine if rings are worn out? Farmall A. Motor wasn't stuck but about half the valves were. We took care of that ,put the head back on and it smoked terrible. Looked in the plug holes and saw a large amount of oil. Pulled the head back off, pulled the pistons,all 4 had dirty, stuck oil rings. Cleaned those up, reinstalled. Fired it up ran great,no smoke......for a couple minutes,now it's smoking as bad as before . When we reinstalled the pistons the ring end gap was really close.

Pic of the piston.....looks like, the oil control ring assembly is not expanding.

 

[da.bees]

Referencing post 11 where you say "sleeves have a nice crosshatch". Wouldn't that indicate someone was recently in there trying to do what you hope to do now and failed? There's no way all rings wind up in same position after being out,cleaned and back in bore. Not only are rings not perfectly round after some wear, the sleeves aren't either so fit is much worse after clean up if rings are rotated on piston.

Valve stems and guides can get worn enough to pull oil on intake stroke.

 

[RobRightmyer]

could bad valve guides make this much smoke?

 

[grandpa Love]

dont matter if you put 10wt oil in there seated rings are seated rings , its not going to smoke. plus back in the day when them tractors were new there was no multigrade oil. it was 30wt in summer then for winter u changed to 10 wt. and on overhauls many times mineral oil was put in for the first run . it was the same for vehicles. you might have to apply for an apprentice ship program and learn all about what your asking cause it dont seam you take actual advise from the pro's here. plus it seams to me i have typed up this same information on a john deere tractor u had apart. plus an engine is an engine as i say, dont matter cub or wd9 or john deere the spec's are the same principle. nobody can give a correct answer here because you have not provided any detailed spec's. where is that tractor vet ? lol.! he will type you a page of info.

How do you know I don't follow the "pro's" advice? Just because I don't document and post every single detail of what we do?? Good grief. Sometimes it's nice to ask for advice and get some good answers . Unfortunately that's becoming more difficult. Maybe I should set up a video camera and record every second of my day so you can be impressed with my ability to follow a "pro's" advice...........

 

[rustred]

i know that because you have posted no spec's of anything i wanted to see, holding a piston in your hand don't tell a person much. just like fixing the stuck valves, were they removed and the rust cleaned out of the guides ? then you would know if the guides are loose just by giving them a wiggle. or was it tap tap up and down and called good , and keep the rust in there. and no, guides will not cause smoke like that. smoke from guides is very hard to see if u can even see it. it happens on deceleration then when you accelerate its a little puff of smoke barely visible. and yes you asked and got some good answers but i didn't get my info back. and so why is that difficult ? sure set up a camera .

 

[Janicholson]

Cylinder taper can cause the rings to move in and out in their grooves (including the oil ring) this effectively pumps oil into the combustion chamber. Make sure the valve guides are tight to the stems. I always use Positive Valve seals (Perfect circle and other brands) to assure correct lube and reduce oil consumption. (so do most machine shops) Jim

 

[grandpa Love]

How do you determine if rings are worn out? Farmall A. Motor wasn't stuck but about half the valves were. We took care of that ,put the head back on and it smoked terrible. Looked in the plug holes and saw a large amount of oil. Pulled the head back off, pulled the pistons,all 4 had dirty, stuck oil rings. Cleaned those up, reinstalled. Fired it up ran great,no smoke......for a couple minutes,now it's smoking as bad as before . When we reinstalled the pistons the ring end gap was really close.

Update.....no video sorry,sold the A yesterday, made a few bucks. Young man that bought it was thrilled that it was running and driving and it was a great project for him to dig into ! It's a win, win. Well except I didn't video my whole day

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

When the tractor started smoking again, did you pull the head and check for stuck rings again, or did you just assume because they were unstuck before, they were still unstuck? The fact that it ran good without smoke and then started smoking again tells me one or more of the rings got stuck again...

 

[grandpa Love]

When the tractor started smoking again, did you pull the head and check for stuck rings again, or did you just assume because they were unstuck before, they were still unstuck? The fact that it ran good without smoke and then started smoking again tells me one or more of the rings got stuck again...

Sold it as is...... Kenny Rogers says it best " know when to walk away, know when to run......." If you can still make a few bucks without doing any more work, go for it

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Apparently the cross hatch doesn't mean anything if grit can be poured into motor and make a bunch of vertical scratches... and cure the problem.

 

[Duner Wi]

Apparently the cross hatch doesn't mean anything if grit can be poured into motor and make a bunch of vertical scratches... and cure the problem.

Which product are you referring to?
If per chance Bon Ami it is not am abrasive. Is used for chrome and glass polishing by some. I have never used it but have heard stories for many years. I would only try this on new rings that won't seat and I have never had that happen yet.

 

[used red MN]

If per chance Bon Ami it is not am abrasive. Is used for chrome and glass polishing by some.

• Natural soft abrasives (feldspar and limestone)

Look in product details. Bon Ami info

 

[used red MN]

Sold it as is...... Kenny Rogers says it best " know when to walk away, know when to run......." If you can still make a few bucks without doing any more work, go for it

Apparently a “pro” knows when to hold them and when to fold them.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Sold it as is...... Kenny Rogers says it best " know when to walk away, know when to run......." If you can still make a few bucks without doing any more work, go for it

So... no then.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

How come the cars didn't smoke?

They did. You just couldn't see it through the cigarette smoke.

Mike