Coil Hot - Wrong 12v sent

[gatractorelli]

I'm afraid NOT!

Part should be 105677, weird their description on the site for the now 105690part:

Starter Solenoid, 6 Volt - This is a 4 post, 6 volt starter solenoid relay assembly. It has a flat mount. Insulated Base, does not ground through mounting bracket. Will work in tractors converted from 6 to 12 volts, using a 4 post solenoid.

How can it work with 12 volt if its only 6 volt?

 

[gatractorelli]

Have you tested the power at the coil to see if the power is turning off to the coil when your key/switch is off? Not sure how long you had the battery connected.

I fully removed the coil after discovering how hot it was. I am replacing the coil and starter solenoid with the correct part numbers. Will update once I get everything and installed.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I'm afraid NOT!

Care to explain? I'm curious as to what old wives' tale you're about to spin.

It's a simple Ford style SOLENOID. It goes click when you put power to the little terminal and connects the two big terminals together.

 

[used red MN]

I fully removed the coil after discovering how hot it was. I am replacing the coil and start solenoid with the correct part numbers. Will update once I get everything and installed.

You should still be able to test the feed to the coil maybe the solenoid being removed hampers this. Connecting the right wire to the battery cable should make it possible. If you only had the key on a short bit while attempting to start the tractor my guess is some how power is being fed to the coil when the switch is off. A person who doesn’t do tractor/automotive wiring very often can get confused. With that I’ll shut up. Even someone who does it often can make a mistake.

 

[JMOR]

Care to explain? I'm curious as to what old wives' tale you're about to spin.

It's a simple Ford style SOLENOID. It goes click when you put power to the little terminal and connects the two big terminals together.

According to you, all these solenoids do and function the same , so all are interchangeable.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Part should be 105677, weird their description on the site for the now 105690part:

Starter Solenoid, 6 Volt - This is a 4 post, 6 volt starter solenoid relay assembly. It has a flat mount. Insulated Base, does not ground through mounting bracket. Will work in tractors converted from 6 to 12 volts, using a 4 post solenoid.

How can it work with 12 volt if its only 6 volt?

Solenoids are generally not so fragile as to burn out immediately when too much voltage is applied. A 6V solenoid will survive on 12V as long as it is not held active for extended periods of time, but overall the lifetime of a 6V solenoid will be slightly diminished on 12V. So if you have to crank the engine for 30 seconds to a minute to get it to start, work on tuning the engine to get it to start better.

It really doesn't matter in your case 6V or 12V on the solenoid. It's just making a connection.

 

[used red MN]

One small terminal on the coil

I think this meant to say …terminal on the solenoid… On the correct solenoid it is only live to the point that a test light or meter sees voltage on it. That is because the other end of the solenoid “pull in” coil is being powered by the battery terminal inside the solenoid. I think this is correct, it is a “circuit 2” type as shown in JMOR’s reply 25.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

According to you, all these solenoids do and function the same , so all are interchangeable.
View attachment 114227

I could make every single one of those solenoid designs work on the OP's tractor with nothing more than a simple piece of 12ga wire for a ground on the "insulated base" types. So I stand by the words you put in my mouth.

The reality is that 99% of what's out there falls under the #1 or #3 style. The OP has a #3 style currently, and is ordering a #1. The only difference is the "I" terminal, which can be omitted.

 

[used red MN]

duplicate post

 

[Jim.ME]

Part should be 105677, weird their description on the site for the now 105690part:

Starter Solenoid, 6 Volt - This is a 4 post, 6 volt starter solenoid relay assembly. It has a flat mount. Insulated Base, does not ground through mounting bracket. Will work in tractors converted from 6 to 12 volts, using a 4 post solenoid.

How can it work with 12 volt if its only 6 volt?

The run time for a solenoid is short enough that very seldom will a 6-volt solenoid fail during momentary use. Some are wound such that they are fine on either voltage.

 

[Jim.ME]

duplicate post

Yup, it was supposed to say solenoid, I corrected it, thanks.

Checking 105689 on PartsASAP's site it shows it replaces 311006. that should be an insulated base solenoid. It may be a circuit #4 and need power supplied to one small post and the starter button ground on the second small post. Powering that type solenoid from the key prevents cranking the engine if the key is off/removed. 5 minutes or less with an ohmmeter/continuity tester can tell what circuitry it has.

Edit: more research on the PartsASAP site.

105689 shows as 12 volt, 4 terminals, grounded base.
105677 shows 6 volt, 3 terminals, insulated base.
105690 shows as 6 volt, 4 terminals, insulated base.

 

[Jim.ME]

Part should be 105677, weird their description on the site for the now 105690part:

Starter Solenoid, 6 Volt - This is a 4 post, 6 volt starter solenoid relay assembly. It has a flat mount. Insulated Base, does not ground through mounting bracket. Will work in tractors converted from 6 to 12 volts, using a 4 post solenoid.

How can it work with 12 volt if its only 6 volt?

Some manufacturers 12-volt units came with 6-volt coils and used an external resistor. They were generally wired to bypass the resistor while the starter was cranking to provide more power to the coil and give a better spark during cranking, so their description is right, even if it doesn't directly say the resistor is always needed when used on 12-volts.

 

[JMOR]

I could make every single one of those solenoid designs work on the OP's tractor with nothing more than a simple piece of 12ga wire for a ground on the "insulated base" types. So I stand by the words you put in my mouth.

The reality is that 99% of what's out there falls under the #1 or #3 style. The OP has a #3 style currently, and is ordering a #1. The only difference is the "I" terminal, which can be omitted.

I guess your 99% excludes all the older 2000, 3000, X01 models? And just by looking you can't differentiate a circuit #3 from a circuit #4. As for "I can make any of them work"...............well we can all make one turn over with a pair of pliers, too, but the fellow probably would like to make it right. Comments like yours are harmful to a newbies understanding, thus worse than not helpful.

 

[gatractorelli]

I guess your 99% excludes all the older 2000, 3000, X01 models? And just by looking you can't differentiate a circuit #3 from a circuit #4. As for "I can make any of them work"...............well we can all make one turn over with a pair of pliers, too, but the fellow probably would like to make it right. Comments like yours are harmful to a newbies understanding, thus worse than not helpful.

*Raise hand* I am the newbie.

 

[Janicholson]

The coil was 12v, just no resister built in.

I am not being a pest (I think). 12v coils designed to operate at 14+ volts while running are just made with more smaller wire to run at a higher voltage. The idea that they have a resistor in them is due to the fact that those coils that do need a resistor have wording such as "external resistor required") Those words imply that other coils have an internal resistor. Nope. Jim

 

[Southern Ray]

I bought this coil at Tractor Supply for my Farmall M conversion from magneto to battery ignition.
They had both 6 volt and 12 volt coils on the shelf. I bought the 12 volt.
There is no voltage or resistance information markings on the coil itself.
On the box it says "Straight 12 volt systems without series resistance."
After about 30 minutes of running the coil felt pretty warm.

 

[Janicholson]

The #2 diagram requires a grounded start button. If the small terminal has voltage when the wires are connected, the grounding of that terminal will make it crank. Jim

 

[JMOR]

I bought this coil at Tractor Supply for my Farmall M conversion from magneto to battery ignition.
They had both 6 volt and 12 volt coils on the shelf. I bought the 12 volt.
There is no voltage or resistance information markings on the coil itself.
On the box it says "Straight 12 volt systems without series resistance."
After about 30 minutes of running the coil felt pretty warm.

Yeah, it should have felt refrigerated?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

*Raise hand* I am the newbie.

Well regardless of what JMOR says, the first solenoid you had wasn't "wrong." It simply had an additional terminal. "What do I do with the extra terminal?" would have cleared up any confusion. In this case the answer is, nothing. Leave it open.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I bought this coil at Tractor Supply for my Farmall M conversion from magneto to battery ignition.
They had both 6 volt and 12 volt coils on the shelf. I bought the 12 volt.
There is no voltage or resistance information markings on the coil itself.
On the box it says "Straight 12 volt systems without series resistance."
After about 30 minutes of running the coil felt pretty warm.

The package says it's designed to run on "straight 12 volt... without series resistance." So, no ballast resistor required.

Ignition coils will build up some heat. They are electrical resistance devices. What's important is it's not so hot as to be painful to the touch, or that it smells like burning electronics, or worse, it bursts and squirts hot "coil juice" all over the tractor.