Rebuilding an injector pump

[used red MN]

A lot of this is due to the lack of a test stand which you need for adjusting the pump for proper performance one it is back together with some new parts.

“adjusting it for proper performance” also includes just seeing if the dang thing can pump fuel to the injectors….before you put it back on the engine!!!

 

[fdt860]

I have resealed many of them and unstuck many of them. Often, the plungers sized and you have to disassemble it,plus the obvious 10 bucks ring.
By the amount of junk.inside them when you get them when the ring is shot, and the pump has been removed and dried long time ago,I think the cleanliness issue is over-rated.

To test them,the old Bacharach stand required special injectors, but testing them with the tractors injectors and lines is more accurate and easier.
To spin them, you can make your own test stand with a lathe, or something else that you can vary the speed. You need to check supply pump.pressure, variable advance operation, make sure static timing is correct, etc...

Your pump is probably worn, but maybe it is just a delivery valve issue... or the ring has blew up and your tractor is dying. you never know until you tried it. I had read Deere sM2045 many times before attacking the first pump.

 

[showcrop]

“adjusting it for proper performance” also includes just seeing if the dang thing can pump fuel to the injectors….before you put it back on the engine!!!

I figured everyone reading my post already knew this. Kind of a pretty basic assumable concept.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

Ok so I got a new pump yesterday and I put it on the tractor last night. Everything sounds good but I'm having some issues with it. When I put the tractor in gear it has no power. the pump is also very hesitant to respond when I give it throttle it takes roughly 3-5 seconds to go from idle to full throttle.
And it has an issue where I wouldn't it was surging but if it was set at high rpm it would stay there for about 5 seconds and then it would lower down to about 1/4 throttle for a few seconds and then slowly work it's way back up to full throttle again. What could be causing this? Someone told me it could be the governor. What do you guys think it could be?

 

[Dieseltech]

Ok so I got a new pump yesterday and I put it on the tractor last night. Everything sounds good but I'm having some issues with it. When I put the tractor in gear it has no power. the pump is also very hesitant to respond when I give it throttle it takes roughly 3-5 seconds to go from idle to full throttle.
And it has an issue where I wouldn't it was surging but if it was set at high rpm it would stay there for about 5 seconds and then it would lower down to about 1/4 throttle for a few seconds and then slowly work it's way back up to full throttle again. What could be causing this? Someone told me it could be the governor. What do you guys think it could be?

Pump is 180 degrees out of TIME. I have seen this happen before on energy cell diesels. Reset the timing and try it again.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

Pump is 180 degrees out of TIME. I have seen this happen before on energy cell diesels. Reset the timing and try it again.

Ok so if the engine timing is correct but the pump is out it would still be firing at tdc just on the wrong cylinder correct?
Can I remove the no.1 cylinder energy cell plug to confirm I'm on the compression stroke?

 

[used red MN]

Ok so if the engine timing is correct but the pump is out it would still be firing at tdc just on the wrong cylinder correct?
Can I remove the no.1 cylinder energy cell plug to confirm I'm on the compression stroke?

The “engine” timing will not move, to me that is the cam is timed to the crankshaft. I am not sure how the front gear train is set up on that Oliver maybe there is another idler gear that has to be timed. Was this a running engine or is it being reassembled after some degree of repair/rebuild? You could pull the number one power cell if you want to and establish TDC of the compression stroke. My understanding of what is happening when the pump gets timed 180 degrees out it does the following. The pump is injecting fuel into the pre chamber at TDC of the exhaust stroke. The fuel will then fire far less efficiently when the cylinder pressure and heat build as the cylinder comes up on TDC of its compression stroke.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

The “engine” timing will not move, to me that is the cam is timed to the crankshaft. I am not sure how the front gear train is set up on that Oliver maybe there is another idler gear that has to be timed. Was this a running engine or is it being reassembled after some degree of repair/rebuild? You could pull the number one power cell if you want to and establish TDC of the compression stroke. My understanding of what is happening when the pump gets timed 180 degrees out it does the following. The pump is injecting fuel into the pre chamber at TDC of the exhaust stroke. The fuel will then fire far less efficiently when the cylinder pressure and heat build as the cylinder comes up on TDC of its compression stroke.

This was an excellent running engine before I removed the injector pump.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Is there any smoke? If it's running like URMN says, smoke will be white , and lots of it. If the exhaust is more or less clear, and you can attain high idle, id guess air getting sucked into the system. That would cause sluggish throttle response and no power.
If the fuel system is equipped with vibration proof fuel line nuts like A-C, the little rubber donut gets old and deteriorated..... re-using them sometimes causes them to rip, causing an air leak. Even though the tank may be above the pump , it may not drip fuel at the leak when the tractor is at rest.... but still could suck air when running.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

There a little bit of white smoke but no more then usual. The tractor doesn't have vibration proof fittings they are just regular metal ones.

I should also note my flywheel Has three timing marks the first is TDC second is what appears to be INJ third the one I've been using FP. Could I possibly be using the wrong one?

 

[used red MN]

There a little bit of white smoke but no more then usual. The tractor doesn't have vibration proof fittings they are just regular metal ones.

I should also note my flywheel Has three timing marks the first is TDC second is what appears to be INJ third the one I've been using FP. Could I possibly be using the wrong one?

The book I have says FP is correct for Retarded timing for both the Super 77 and the regular 88.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

I don't know if all my problems are due to timing of the pump. I seen the head gasket is leaking a lot of air especially on the right side.

If I'm losing a lot of the compression would that cause the throttle to be hesitant? It also can't get to high rpm anymore It barely makes it to half rpm now.

Another issue I have now is it developed a miss.

 

[used red MN]

I don't know if all my problems are due to timing of the pump. I seen the head gasket is leaking a lot of air especially on the right side.

View attachment 124987

If I'm losing a lot of the compression would that cause the throttle to be hesitant? It also can't get to high rpm anymore It barely makes it to half rpm now.

Another issue I have now is it developed a miss.

Is the gasket just bubbling a bit? If so you need to lose way more compression than that to cause a misfire. Is it pushing compression into the cooling system? Have you set the valves? I assume you haven’t tried changing the pump timing 180 yet? The pump is a full fledged “rebuilt” pump correct? Can you pin point the miss by cracking the injector lines open?

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

Is the gasket just bubbling a bit? If so you need to lose way more compression than that to cause a misfire. Is it pushing compression into the cooling system? Have you set the valves? I assume you haven’t tried changing the pump timing 180 yet? The pump is a full fledged “rebuilt” pump correct? Can you pin point the miss by cracking the injector lines open?

I did try retiming the pump but it didn't change anything but I could have messed up some where

I was told the pump was completely rebuilt and I do have a warranty if something truly is wrong with the pump but I think it's probably something I did wrong or am missing

The head gasket is just bubbling I don't think it's pushing compression into the cooling system but I will check to make sure next time I work on it.

I did not set the valves

I'm either going to mess with it tomorrow or Monday and I will try to locate the miss then

It kinda seems like it has a lack of fuel sometimes to and sometimes it just dies.

 

[used red MN]

I did try retiming the pump but it didn't change anything but I could have messed up some where

Did retiming it include simply turning it 180 and putting it back in? I don’t know all the ins and outs of timing this pump on a Waukesha. I know in some cases if it the pump is assembled with the internal shaft or other parts 180 off this can affect your outcome. I’m going to step back and let Dieseltech or someone more knowledgeable take it from here.
I will say a tight valve won’t cause all of this but it definitely can cause a miss as an engine reaches temp.

 

[Dieseltech]

Ok so if the engine timing is correct but the pump is out it would still be firing at tdc just on the wrong cylinder correct?
Can I remove the no.1 cylinder energy cell plug to confirm I'm on the compression stroke?

Either the engine is out of time OR the pump is assembled wrong. Pump needs to inject fuel at end of COMPRESSION stroke, NOT during the exhaust closing/ intake opening OVERLAP period. Align the pump marks again and remove the pump drive gear. Now turn the crankshaft ON FULL TURN then install the pump gear. Energy cell/pre chamber diesels WILL RUN with pump 180 out, but BOTH acceleration AND deceleration are extremely slow/sluggish far as response goes. I've seen an IH 560, Olds 507 diesel, Ford with IH 6.9 diesel and an Oliver Super 55 diesel ALL RUN 180 out. Both the engine camshaft and pump turn 1/2 engine speed, but they must match right or engine will not start and run right.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

Either the engine is out of time OR the pump is assembled wrong. Pump needs to inject fuel at end of COMPRESSION stroke, NOT during the exhaust closing/ intake opening OVERLAP period. Align the pump marks again and remove the pump drive gear. Now turn the crankshaft ON FULL TURN then install the pump gear. Energy cell/pre chamber diesels WILL RUN with pump 180 out, but BOTH acceleration AND deceleration are extremely slow/sluggish far as response goes. I've seen an IH 560, Olds 507 diesel, Ford with IH 6.9 diesel and an Oliver Super 55 diesel ALL RUN 180 out. Both the engine camshaft and pump turn 1/2 engine speed, but they must match right or engine will not start and run right.

Ok I will mess around with it tomorrow or Monday and see what I come up with.

I talked with the man who sold it to me and he seemed pretty adamant that the governor wasn't working properly but I will start by retiming I again.

 

[wore out]

I don't know if all my problems are due to timing of the pump. I seen the head gasket is leaking a lot of air especially on the right side.

View attachment 124987

If I'm losing a lot of the compression would that cause the throttle to be hesitant? It also can't get to high rpm anymore It barely makes it to half rpm now.

Another issue I have now is it developed a miss.

I doubt you have a fully blown head gasket.

It wouldn't hurt to do a "warm retorque" on the cylinder head fasteners, then set the valves.

 

[Dieseltech]

Ok I will mess around with it tomorrow or Monday and see what I come up with.

I talked with the man who sold it to me and he seemed pretty adamant that the governor wasn't working properly but I will start by retiming I again.

With the pump marks aligned, I look at the rocker arms with the valve cover off. Pistons one and six are at TDC TOGETHER but the CAMSHAFT determines which is ready to fire. When I rock the crankshaft back and forth about 5 degrees i want to see the number SIX rockers moving, exhaust closing/intake opening. Then I'm SURE number ONE is on the compression stroke ready to fire, IF THE PUMP IS TOGETHER and on right. If the pump marks align but the number ONE rockers are moving that means number SIX is ready to fire but the pump is 180 degrees off . Energy cell/pre chamber engines WILL RUN because there's some fuel left over in the chamber when there should not be. I've never seen any direct injected engine run 180 out, but I've seen older engines start and barely run this way.

 

[A . M. Aitkins]

I doubt you have a fully blown head gasket.

It wouldn't hurt to do a "warm retorque" on the cylinder head fasteners, then set the valves.

What are the lash specs for the valves? And what are the torque specs and torque pattern?