IH 444 with unknown loader??

[used red MN]

Also, trying to figure out the nut size for that metal pipe out of the splitter. I don't have a wrench that big....yet

Hold something flat or straight like toothpicks on two opposite flats and measure between them, that is your wrench size. If you buy a wrench set up to 1 1/4” you will likely have it covered.

 

[Analyte]

Good, does the loader valve have a third "Dump" port out the bottom of the valve?
To loosen that nut on the hydraulic line, do you have an air hammer or a long punch with a flat end, then put punch very close to the ridge on t he nut and tap with a hammer in direction to loosen.

The valve does have a dump/outlet on the bottom that connected to the bottom of the seat in the old tractor. That hose is bad so I was trying to see what my options were. Thanks

No air hammer, but I have a punch. Messing with it more, a wrench will be thought to fit around it so tapping is a good idea

 

[JimB2]

The dump outlet is usually connected to the hydraulic fill port behind the seat, see photo below with many dump lines.

 

[Analyte]

Hold something flat or straight like toothpicks on two opposite flats and measure between them, that is your wrench size. If you buy a wrench set up to 1 1/4” you will likely have it covered.

Good idea, thanks!

 

[Analyte]

The dump outlet is usually connected to the hydraulic fill port behind the seat, see photo below with many dump lines.

View attachment 148336

 

[Analyte]

Yes, but I want the 3pt and loader to be available at the same time. That's why I'm setting it up like your picture showed.

I could set the dump up to go at the back fill hole, but then my 3pt won't work.

 

[JimB2]

Yes, but I want the 3pt and loader to be available at the same time. That's why I'm setting it up like your picture showed.

I could set the dump up to go at the back fill hole, but then my 3pt won't work.

The dump port is only for the loader valves that have an in and out ports plus a third port port usually on the bottom side of the valve housing and it is used for the return hydraulic oil that is being dumped out of the loader cylinders as the loader was being lowered on single action cylinders and the same when lifting loader with double action cylinders. This a low pressure line and is different from the out port of the valves as it is the high pressure line that feeds into the 3pt at the front of the seat.
Some loader valves don’t have a dump port, only in and out.

 

[Analyte]

Hmm, let me snap a couple of pictures of what I have for a loader valve. I do have the inlet port on the side of the loader valve, and the dump port on the bottom of the valve that went to the fill tank hole. I don't think I have a third port open, but the bucket cylinder must have fed to the same lower outlet.

I Didn't notice since the seller unhooked the hoses to the loader valve, but I'm guessing he had an aux port to drive the loader valve.

So what are my options to keep the 3pt and loader usable at all times? Before I get to deep into removing hoses and rerouting everything.

 

[JimB2]

Post a couple photos of the valves.
Like I said a dump port is not necessary but it makes for a shorter path for the return oil to get back to reservoir and to be pumped again.
But if the valves that came with the loader only have an IN and OUT port then connect as per the diagram that you posted earlier and 3pt will work with loader. The loader will have first priority and 3pt second, so 3pt will not lift until loader valves return to neutral position and that is normal for open center hydraulic systems.

 

[Analyte]

Jim, thanks for the help.

I did find a spare pressure line with a pioneer quick connect that originally fes the inlet. The other tractor definitely had a remote valve. And I have the line that goes from eg dump valve to the hyd fill behind the seat.

Here are some pics of my valve. It just has an inlet and dump port. No specific outlet, and now I understand the dump isn't pressurized to feed the 3pt port below the seat.

So, I guess I need to figure out how to add a remote to feed the loader valve. Maybe off the main line coming from the hyd pump, but that might steal vol/pressure from the 3pt.

 

[JimB2]

Good so only Inlet and Outlet with high pressure hydraulic hoses. Connect as per your early post today.
In an open centered hydraulic system that your tractor has as soon as the loader valves return to neutral position the outlet will have high pressure (pump pressure) on it that will supply high pressure to the 3pt input at the front of the seat.

 

[Analyte]

Good so only Inlet and Outlet with high pressure hydraulic hoses. Connect as per your early post today.

So the dump valve will maintain enough pressure to run the 3pt? If so, I'll find the right wrench and pull that metal line.

 

[Analyte]

Good so only Inlet and Outlet with high pressure hydraulic hoses. Connect as per your early post today.

I guess another option is to replace that loader valve is something else will work better. I know I'll have to once the loader cylinders are swapped to double acting.

 

[JimB2]

I guess another option is to replace that loader valve is something else will work better. I know I'll have to once the loader cylinders are swapped to double acting.

Yes, those valves should work fine but will just be a little slower when lower the boom on the loader which is not a bad thing as you never want to drop the bucket quickly with a heavy load in it.

 

[Analyte]

Yes, those valves should work fine but will just be a little slower when lower the boom on the loader which is not a bad thing as you never want to drop the bucket quickly with a heavy load in it.

Thanks Jim, I appreciate the help today just to make sure I'm not messing anything up. With the dump valve being pressurized for the 3 pt, I'll need to buy a longer hose to replace the entire metal pipe. I'll figure out the length one it's out of the way.

 

[JimB2]

You are correct, years ago IH sold a kit for the loader valves hook up that was two pieces of metal hydraulic line that replaced that one solid line with female hydraulic fitting on the ends to connect the hydraulic hoses from the loader valve to. Farmers used to cut the steel line, remove a piece then braze the female hydraulic line couples on the cut ends.

 

[Analyte]

Ok, it's good to know that cutting that line has been done in the past. I'll get it off and replace that hose and install an inlet hose. Then it should be good to go.

 

[Analyte]

Just to add to the discussion, I was looking at the Bush Hog manual for these loaders last night.

It looks as though my 51482 loader valve had a Power Thru Kit optional when new. While it's NLA now, I do wonder if I could pull the blockoff on my valve and make a threaded outlet for it. Then I could connect that to my 3pt connection and use the existing dump valve to return excess flow to the hyd fill port.

Maybe it doesn't matter since it won't change anything considering it still has single action cylinders on the lift. Just trying to sort out what's best.

The pics show the block off plug that the optional kit used for power thru.

 

[JimB2]

Here is valve used by IH for loaders on B414, 434 etc.
Unfortunately I don't have the part numbers anymore but looking at photo it is a couple O-rings and a screw in adapter.
Maybe if you have a local hydraulic shop they can help.

 

[Analyte]

Here is valve used by IH for loaders on B414, 434 etc.
Unfortunately I don't have the part numbers anymore but looking at photo it is a couple O-rings and a screw in adapter.
Maybe if you have a local hydraulic shop they can help.


View attachment 148432

I think I will reach out to my local hyd shop to see if they can drill/tap the block off port so I can use an outlet there. I still need to remove the stell line coming off the splitter, but they may be a better way if possible.

Thanks for sharing that diagram for comparison.