12 volt voltage regulator

[grandpa Love]

Having issues with my '64 cub. 12 volt generator. I can adjust the tension on the spring and the contact will close once I start the tractor,but it won't release when I turn the ignition off, and it gets hot quick once the tractor is off. If I adjust it the tiniest amount, barely measurable,and then the contact won't close at all ( unless I manually push it down. And ideas? The system works fine when the contact works

 

[old]

Having issues with my '64 cub. 12 volt generator. I can adjust the tension on the spring and the contact will close once I start the tractor,but it won't release when I turn the ignition off, and it gets hot quick once the tractor is off. If I adjust it the tiniest amount, barely measurable,and then the contact won't close at all ( unless I manually push it down. And ideas? The system works fine when the contact works

Bad VR and has burned spots or other such things which cause it to weld tight and not release

 

[John T]

I basically agree with Rich on this one, here's my input. A correct working and adjusted VR will CLOSE the Cutout Relay once the genny produces adequate voltage but OPEN on shut down when the gennys output stops. If it doesn't a couple causes could be:

1) The Cut in Cut out adjustment is fairly critical and sensitive and maybe not just right???

2) The relay contacts are burned/pitted/corroded maybe sticking closed not allowing it to open on shut down ?? If it fails to open on shut down excess reverse discharge current will drain the battery fairly quick and things will heat up. in fact if the belt were removed and the cutout relay was stuck closed the genny would spin !!

3) While there can be other simple problems such as a bad connection or ground (check all of them) its may well simple be a bad VR if the adjustment is correct..........Maybe try to clean/buff/polish the cutout relay contacts ????????

PS Another possibility !!!!!!!!!! If the genny isn't producing enough voltage to ever close the cutout relay but you close it manually,,, it could hold in and on shut down stay closed because there isn't enough reverse current flow to trigger the relays opening !!!!!!!! When running at fast RPM is the genny working and charging the battery and raising its voltage ???

Check genny working and if its okay and wiring and grounds and connections are all okay, the VR may be bad or mis adjusted

John T

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Having issues with my '64 cub. 12 volt generator. I can adjust the tension on the spring and the contact will close once I start the tractor,but it won't release when I turn the ignition off, and it gets hot quick once the tractor is off. If I adjust it the tiniest amount, barely measurable,and then the contact won't close at all ( unless I manually push it down. And ideas? The system works fine when the contact works

GP
I had a 1960 Cub cadet.
Yes you can adjust the spring tension.
Some VR came with a screw to adjust the spring tension.
I've used needle nose to adjust the tension.
You have to be careful not to over charge the battery.
Remember one coil is for the voltage and the other is for the current.
If I recall the coil with larger wires is the current relay.
Coil with smaller wires is for the voltage.
Good luck;
Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[grandpa Love]

I basically agree with Rich on this one, here's my input. A correct working and adjusted VR will CLOSE the Cutout Relay once the genny produces adequate voltage but OPEN on shut down when the gennys output stops. If it doesn't a couple causes could be:

1) The Cut in Cut out adjustment is fairly critical and sensitive and maybe not just right???

2) The relay contacts are burned/pitted/corroded maybe sticking closed not allowing it to open on shut down ?? If it fails to open on shut down excess reverse discharge current will drain the battery fairly quick and things will heat up. in fact if the belt were removed and the cutout relay was stuck closed the genny would spin !!

3) While there can be other simple problems such as a bad connection or ground (check all of them) its may well simple be a bad VR if the adjustment is correct..........Maybe try to clean/buff/polish the cutout relay contacts ????????

PS Another possibility !!!!!!!!!! If the genny isn't producing enough voltage to ever close the cutout relay but you close it manually,,, it could hold in and on shut down stay closed because there isn't enough reverse current flow to trigger the relays opening !!!!!!!! When running at fast RPM is the genny working and charging the battery and raising its voltage ???

Check genny working and if its okay and wiring and grounds and connections are all okay, the VR may be bad or mis adjusted

John T

John, it worked correctly twice,then stuck closed. Tiny adjustment and it wouldn't close again, high rev or not. Volt meter in tractor shows a good charge. However am analog meter on the battery barely shows any movement, I assumed it was because the battery was on a charger overnight? Everything is polished up good,new wires and connectors. May order a new VR from Napa, they still sell a good one. Stay tuned. ...by the way Google always pulls up your wonderful troubleshooting tips! Thank you for posting those!

 

[Fritz Maurer]

The point gap can be adjusted by bending the stop above the points. Dress them smooth and reset the gap to maybe like .010”. If the electromagnet is too far away from the arm, it cannot pull the arm down and close the points. At the same time, you want as much spring tension as possible that will still allow the points to close. The best scenario is having to bump the idle up a bit before it begins to charge.
I have one tractor in which the amp gauge dips way down into discharge during shutdown, and snaps back to zero soon as the engine stops turning. This is an example of lower than desired spring tension.

 

[JMOR]

The point gap can be adjusted by bending the stop above the points. Dress them smooth and reset the gap to maybe like .010”. If the electromagnet is too far away from the arm, it cannot pull the arm down and close the points. At the same time, you want as much spring tension as possible that will still allow the points to close. The best scenario is having to bump the idle up a bit before it begins to charge.
I have one tractor in which the amp gauge dips way down into discharge during shutdown, and snaps back to zero soon as the engine stops turning. This is an example of lower than desired spring tension.

That is the adjustment I would try, i.e., bending the stop to narrow the contacts-open gap.

 

[wore out]

GP
I had a 1960 Cub cadet.
Yes you can adjust the spring tension.
Some VR came with a screw to adjust the spring tension.
I've used needle nose to adjust the tension.
You have to be careful not to over charge the battery.
Remember one coil is for the voltage and the other is for the current.
If I recall the coil with larger wires is the current relay.
Coil with smaller wires is for the voltage.
Good luck;
Keep us posted on your progress.

Geo, the O.P. has a "two unit' voltage regulator. One "relay" is the "cutout" and the other is a combined voltage and current regulation on on unit.

Kevin, take a look at the document at the link below, there's lots of good information on setting up the cutout function in two-unit Delco voltage regulators.

There are a couple of other Delco publications mentioned that list specifications, some or all can be found by GOOGLING the Delco publications number. (1R-180, 1R-185, and 1R186.)

https://regitar.com/image/file_downloads/Mechanical-Regulator-Service-Bulletin.pdf
Delco 1R-111

 

[John T]

When it comes to bending tabs or adjusting spring tension to regulate the cut in and cut out of the Cutout Relay portion of a Voltage Regulator, my advice based on experience is GO SLOW, BE CAREFUL, FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AS IT ONLY TAKES A SMALL BEND OR SPRING ADJUSTMENT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE....

Again the VR may be bad as Old originally stated,,,,,,,,,,, or the contacts burned pitted or corroded,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or theres a wiring or ground issue (assuming generator is okay?) so hopefully you may get it fixed LET US KNOW

John T

 

[John T]

GP
I had a 1960 Cub cadet.
Yes you can adjust the spring tension.
Some VR came with a screw to adjust the spring tension.
I've used needle nose to adjust the tension.
You have to be careful not to over charge the battery.
Remember one coil is for the voltage and the other is for the current.
If I recall the coil with larger wires is the current relay.
Coil with smaller wires is for the voltage.
Good luck;
Keep us posted on your progress.

Best I recall there were both two coil and 3 coil Voltage Regulators used on different Farmalls, but regardless tabs may be bent or springs adjusted to regulate the Cutout Relay portion. Absent the exact VR specs and adjustment details its hard to tell him over the net how to fix the problem, but hey we try our best

Take care neighbor

John T

 

[grandpa Love]

When it comes to bending tabs or adjusting spring tension to regulate the cut in and cut out of the Cutout Relay portion of a Voltage Regulator, my advice based on experience is GO SLOW, BE CAREFUL, FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AS IT ONLY TAKES A SMALL BEND OR SPRING ADJUSTMENT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE....

Again the VR may be bad as Old originally stated,,,,,,,,,,, or the contacts burned pitted or corroded,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or theres a wiring or ground issue (assuming generator is okay?) so hopefully you may get it fixed LET US KNOW

John T

Miniscule amount of adjustment.....big problems....new VR coming to Napa this afternoon.

 

[John T]

Miniscule amount of adjustment.....big problems....new VR coming to Napa this afternoon.

Good choice thanks for the update

John T

 

[JMOR]

Good choice thanks for the update

John T

I second that, as I believe that 99.44% of people have no business even trying to adjust those old VRs.

 

[Janicholson]

Having issues with my '64 cub. 12 volt generator. I can adjust the tension on the spring and the contact will close once I start the tractor,but it won't release when I turn the ignition off, and it gets hot quick once the tractor is off. If I adjust it the tiniest amount, barely measurable,and then the contact won't close at all ( unless I manually push it down. And ideas? The system works fine when the contact works

One last try!! On the cutout contacts there is a L shaped component that is used to limit the travel of the movable contact arm when it is open. this can be adjusted or bent just a tiny bit, closing the "open" distance of the points a tad. this allows easier pull in when charging, and does not require weakening the opening spring much at all. This allows the magnetism to close it, and the spring to open it. Don't get carried away, there must be a gap (seems to me to be about .040 that works.) It is trial and error! Jim