1841 Front bolster mounting bushings

[Royse]

I removed the loader frame from my 1841 so I can replace the engine.
When I took the last side off, the tractor started to fold like a pocket knife.
Right where the bolster and engine meet.
Once I got a jack and some cribbing under it I took the front end off.
There were no bolts or studs in the right side.
Apparently it was ran that way for a while.
The stud pictured in front of the hole in the block was the only
thing holding the bolster on other than the loader frame.
It had a bushing on it.
That bushing is worn too badly to get a good measurement.
Even the ends are different sizes.
I haven't found them in the parts book or on the CNH site.
Does anyone know the part number and/or source where I could buy them?
If not, maybe the original dimensions? The stud is 5/8 so that's
no secret. The length would be easy enough to figure out too.
It's the O.D. I'm not sure about. Measuring the holes in the
bolster would get me close. If they aren't wore out too.
What are the thoughts on drilling larger holes and making
bushings to fit the new holes? Would it weaken the bolster too much?
There are only two bolt holes in it to connect it to the engine.
One on each side.

 

[Bern]

I find it very hard to believe that the factory would mount that bolster to the engine with only one bolt
per side. From the pics, it looks like it was designed for two bolts per side, for a total of 4. The ag
versions used 4 bolts, so the industrials should use at least that many as well. What about the empty hole
near the generator mounting bracket? It doesn't look like there's been a bolt in there in many years.

With regards to your dilemma on the RH side, if the hole in the bolster is egged out, I would drill it round
to the next oversize. I would then have a local machine shop make me up some custom bushings. Maybe even
drill the LH side the same size since there's likely wear there as well.

 

[Royse]

Thanks Bern, I'll check the holes in the bolster for egg-ing.
I was pretty flabbergasted about it only having two bolts too.
Especially considering how long it is. Way longer then the ag bolsters.
Here's picture of the engine end. Only two bolt sized holes.
And they are far to large for the 5/8 stud.

 

[GB in MT.]

[size=18:adce6cb7ed][/size:adce6cb7ed]
LR;
If you would like.....I can send my DEOGIE up to you, and he could help ya fix that!!????
Med, flat rate box, should do, to get him there.!!

As you know....he would LOVE to help you!!!

Gary :lol:

 

[Royse]

Gary, the snow on that bolster fell today.
I'm not sure your dog is tall enough to get through it!
He is cute, but I think Les would miss him too much. LOL

 

[Bern]

That is one odd mounting arrangement. I can't see how that would have been expected to last, unless that
model tractor came from the factory with a loader that was designed to stay mounted permanently?? I don't
know enough about the early model industrial tractors to say for sure.

 

[Royse]

I'm guessing you are right, and the loader was meant to be permanent.
Here's a picture I took when I was removing the 240lb nose cone,
which also sets on that bolster. The three circled bolts go through
the C-channel loader frame and through the bolster, but do not
connect to anything else. There are mounting/support brackets
in the center of the tractor mounted to the standard transmission
holes and then the mounting up to the rear axle fender/bolts.

The front mounted hydraulic pump also mounts inside that bolster
and the hydraulic reservoir is in the top of the cast iron nose cone.

 

[Greg NE]

Never worked on an industrial but my 971 uses a bushing with rubber on the bottom 2 holes of the block similar
to what your pictures show. They look somewhat like the bushings in the end of leaf springs. Don't know if there
was any rubber originally in your tractor tho. They show them on Messick's under 901 rowcrop pedestal parts.
Just my 2 cents worth. Greg NE

 

[showcrop]

The 4 cyl row crops have what they call "pedestal support insulators" which are two steel tubes with with rubber between the inner tube and the outer tube. The OD of the outer is approx. an inch IIRC, it has been a few years. Your industrial set up could be related.

 

[Bern]

That makes way more sense to me now. The loader sub-frame at least was meant to be permanent.

 

[Royse]

Greg/Showcrop, thanks for the information.
I had to go out and look to verify. This one is solid metal.
That doesn't mean it's original though.
This thing has it's fair share of modifications and then some.

When I look up the 1841 model front axle on CNH, it specifically
says it's for 1811, 1821,1841, etc. but then shows an AG front end.
The front end on this thing is a far cry from the AG front end.

I moved the bolster/axle combination around with my Farmall BN
forklift, but it made the rear (front?) tires so light I had trouble
steering it in the snow. The little tires just wanted to slide around.
Even with all the weights over them and the wheel weights on them.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Can?t help you. Laid up with back problems. Can?t even get out to
measure anything for you. If I were you I would call tony jacobs. He
knows the HD?s like the back of his hand. If you need his number
send me an email.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Hello Royse , Just read your post , guess you forgot to buy manuals and read them before you took apart your tractor . If you did you would have seen there is NO LOADER FRAME that is the frame of the tractor . All Heavy Duty Industrials are built that way , the hydraulic package is also part of the tractor . The loader consists of a bucket , lift arms , 4 cylinders , 2 vertical posts and 2 diagonal posts everything else is part of the tractor . As far as the two front engine mounts go it doesn t need any more than that , and as far replacements go I make them out of a hard polymer like the High Performance Polyurethane body and suspension mounts . If you look at your bolster you will see thin metal sleeves in it , they were vulcanized with rubber to the sleeve on the engine mount stud just like suspension bushings . I usually leave the sleeves in the bolster and eliminate the sleeve on the stud and make a press fit in the sleeve then use a thick SAE washer and a new metal crimp locking nut on reassembly , just remember the bushing is longer than the sleeve . I am out of them right now and I have to make some just don t know when I have 3 HD Industrials coming into the shop later this winter or early spring so I have other parts to make for current jobs . What year is you 1841 ? 58,59 or 60 ? The earliest 58 I have ever seen is around 45,000 my two are 53,000 gas combo and 56,000 diesel reverser built in October and December and Elenco s . Looks like she broke a rod bolt much more common with Diesels but gas one still do it . As far as disassembly goes the three bolts you have circled in the picture you remove the 1 1/2 nuts from each side place jack stands under the frame rails and slide the complete assembled bolster right out of the frame rails then pull the engine . If you look at your loader you will see two pins at the bottom of the vertical posts with a 3/8ths cross bolt remove the two pins plus the two bolts on the top of the posts for the supports on the steering box and the two bolts on the frame for the diagonal braces and four hydraulic lines , that s how the loader comes off . As far as your Forklift goes you need about 2000 more pounds of counterweight on it , rule of thumb is every pound of lift requires a pound of counterweight. My HD Industrials when the backhoes are off have loaded 16.9x24 rear tires , heavy duty pie weights and a 4500 Ford weight full of concrete on the backhoe mounts for a total just over 6000lbs. (All Industrials lift 5000lbs. in the bucket when tight) and I have still had the rear wheels off the ground lifting max. weight loads like cars on the forks . Tony

 

[Royse]

Thanks Tony, I appreciate your input. Yes, I have the manual.
Tractor serial number 51594 with a Sherman reverser.
Looks like these may be the same ones Showcrop and Greg
mentioned after all. Part number NCB6038A
I found them listed for the 971, but not the 1841. $67 each!
I'll probably do like you say and make my own.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

Hello Royse , Yes that is the correct part number and it is listed in the frame section of the parts book . Messick s and the New Holland online websites are marginal at best when it comes to the old tractors . You really need the old paper books if you want the correct information. Tony