1952 8N voltage regulator or resistor?!?

[1TiredMarine!]

Hello all, new to 8N tractors but very mechanically inclined. I have an 8N with a junk white block resistor. The resistor is broke putting out 12 volts to the coil. I was wanting to put in a 12volt to 6 volt regulator instead of another crap white block. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

PS if anyone could point me to a site where I can get quality points and condenser it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[HFJ]

hi tired, welcome to YT

are you still running a 6 volt coil? easier solution is to put a 12 volt coil in it. probably cheaper too

 

[wore out]

Hello all, new to 8N tractors but very mechanically inclined. I have an 8N with a junk white block resistor. The resistor is broke putting out 12 volts to the coil. I was wanting to put in a 12volt to 6 volt regulator instead of another crap white block. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

PS if anyone could point me to a site where I can get quality points and condenser it would be greatly appreciated.

"The resistor is broke putting out 12 volts to the coil."

Please share more details about that, typically the only failure mode for those is to ''open''.

If you are measuring the voltage leaving the resistor with the breaker points "open" (or not making contact) there is no current flow and no voltage will be dropped.

Are you SURE that's not what's going on?

 

[Eman85]

First question, side or front distributor? Side distributor throw the white block away and go resistorless with the correct coil or electronic igniton or both. For points and condenser I use Amazon for Standard Motor Products parts.

1950 8N Tune-up

All, I KNOW this has been answered here (likely a couple dozen times), but I can't seem to find it. So forgive me asking a question I should be able to find. I'm looking for the parts and specifications to tune-up a 1950 8N with a side mount distributor. Looking for autoparts store part...

www.yesterdaystractors.com

 

[Jim WI]

Hello all, new to 8N tractors but very mechanically inclined. I have an 8N with a junk white block resistor. The resistor is broke putting out 12 volts to the coil. I was wanting to put in a 12volt to 6 volt regulator instead of another crap white block. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

PS if anyone could point me to a site where I can get quality points and condenser it would be greatly appreciated.

If the resistor has 12V to common on each side, it's not the resistor. If you turn the engine, does the voltage on the coil side go down and up? That's the points closing and opening. If the voltage stays at 12V, your points are not closing or your coil is open.

 

[1TiredMarine!]

hi tired, welcome to YT

are you still running a 6 volt coil? easier solution is to put a 12 volt coil in it. probably cheaper too

Thanks.

 

[1TiredMarine!]

If the resistor has 12V to common on each side, it's not the resistor. If you turn the engine, does the voltage on the coil side go down and up? That's the points closing and opening. If the voltage stays at 12V, your points are not closing or your coil is open.

 

[used red MN]

Hello TiredMarine welcome to YT! I also want to thank you for your service if that is applicable. I have a fair knowledge of electrical basics. I am not sure what you have against a resistor to drop the voltage to your ignition coil. Millions of machines were produced using some form of this and they ran fine. Your inquiry goes over my level of electrical knowledge when you ask about a voltage regulator to use instead of a resistor. I actually think the circuitry of such an item would be fairly complex. It would definitely cost a lot more than the resistor. Maybe some of our resident sparkles could chime in on what it would take to do this.
Standard brand Blue Streak points I feel are a very good quality set of points. This link gives some details on them and numbers. Although the poster claims O’Reillys could not get them I believe they can. They are likely an order in item.
Past YT post with info

 

[1TiredMarine!]

Thanks to all of you. Yes I am a retired Marine (20+ years). My 8N has a side distributor. I like the idea of converting to 12 volt. I think that’s what I will do. Besides the coil, I need to replace the condenser and points? My neighbor who has many tractors came over and gave me a class on how points and resistors work. I feel like an idiot. We worked on the tractor a bit and got it to fire up but it won’t stay running for more than a few minutes. I think there might be an issue with the carburetor because sometimes if I mess with the thumb screw it will fire up. It might be a coincidence but I don’t know. I got a rebuild kit in from this site (YT) and plan on installing it today. My neighbor thinks I might have a couple valves sticking causing back firing. It starts sometimes no issues and other times it won’t start unless I mess with the throttle lever. Like I said it’s my first tractor and I appreciate your patience with my little knowledge of them. Any suggestions on what I should try next.

 

[Eman85]

What thumbscrew? Points and condenser are the same 12V or 6V no difference.
Before wasting time and money do some easy free tests. Do a compression test and a fuel flow test. Do the fuel flow test by closing the fuel shutoff and removing the plug in the bottom of the carburetor. Place a pint jar under the carb and open the shutoff and time to see how long to fill the jar.

 

[Jim WI]

Condensers and points don't care about the change from 6 V to 12V, so all you need change is the coil. A 6 V coil with the proper resistor will work just as well as a 12 V coil with no resistor.

• What is the point gap? What is the sparkplug gap? On a side-mount they should both be .025".
• Does the fuel flow test recommended by Eman85 pass?
• Are you sure it's a 6 V coil? Sometimes people make a mistake and use a resistor and a 12 V coil. It doesn't work so good.

 

[used red MN]

While I am a proponent of converting to 12 volts I do tend to also agree the time to make the change is after you have your tractor running reliably on 6 volts. This way you are not using the 12 volt change over as a “bandaid” or having it cause additional heartburn because something in the process got messed up. Eman has proposed the items I was going to list. Also what he covered on the 12 volt change is correct. The big thing about a 12 volt conversion is the charging system. An automotive alternator is usually the go to for this. That requires changing the machine over to negative ground or you will burn up something. That is not hard you just need to know the details. Focus on getting it running properly as is for now. Has the tractor been sitting a while? If so it is very common for a fouled up fuel system from old gas a being one of the bigger hurdles to overcome.

 

[1TiredMarine!]

I’ve done compression tests. After I replace my head gasket with the cylinders dry I got: 1=82, 2=70, 3=72, 4=81. I then added oil to the cylinders and got: 1=125, 2=105, 3=90, 4=120. So yes the rings are probably bad but I was told by my neighbor that won’t keep it from running. What does the fuel test tell you? I don’t have my hood on. I have a small tank with 100% gas hooked to it. Also the thumbscrew is the large/long screw you can adjust with your thumb and index finger on the carburetor.

 

[used red MN]

“What does the fuel test tell you?” What makes the thing run? Gas! Even though you’re a Marine I’m toughening you up a bit. Those Ford guys are savage, wait until Tim D. gets a hold of you. See the red in my user name? I am an IH guy slipping in the side door here. What you are showing lessons the possibilities quite a bit. If gas can’t get in your carb the tractor can’t run. The suggested test would have assessed if the flow is adequate through the stock system if it was actually all assembled properly. There is possibly a “secret” screen that could be giving you trouble see number 16 here.
CNHI Ford 8N online parts catalog
That is the fitting where the fuel line connects to the carb it has a fine strainer in it. If that is plugged it limits or stops gas flow into the carb. By the way that link is just exactly what I named it, the manufacturers online parts catalog. If you click the “8N Ford 4 cyl…” to the right of the Home icon it will take you to the list of the main sections.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Thanks to all of you. Yes I am a retired Marine (20+ years). My 8N has a side distributor. I like the idea of converting to 12 volt. I think that’s what I will do. Besides the coil, I need to replace the condenser and points? My neighbor who has many tractors came over and gave me a class on how points and resistors work. I feel like an idiot. We worked on the tractor a bit and got it to fire up but it won’t stay running for more than a few minutes. I think there might be an issue with the carburetor because sometimes if I mess with the thumb screw it will fire up. It might be a coincidence but I don’t know. I got a rebuild kit in from this site (YT) and plan on installing it today. My neighbor thinks I might have a couple valves sticking causing back firing. It starts sometimes no issues and other times it won’t start unless I mess with the throttle lever. Like I said it’s my first tractor and I appreciate your patience with my little knowledge of them. Any suggestions on what I should try next.

Diagnostics get off track easily you state you fiddled with a screw on the carb and like clockwork off and running fudgen with the fuel system. Go after the low hanging fruit first. Prove you have good spark, your best guess are yer buds is not good enoufh you will need a spark tester. The prof will be in the spark tester no best guess needed.

 

[Btzj02]

As you learn and start working on your tractor keep in mind that it is over 70 years old and most likely most things have been neglected. Lots of good advice on this forum. When ever you look into something keep your eyes open for things that don't look right. For example when you eventually replace your points, have a look under the plate in your distributer and verify your weights are clean and free to move. See attached picture of what I found when I replaced points for the first time, frozen solid! I am not as experienced as most on this forum but, of the two tractors I have bought and worked/working on I have found that everything needed to be cleaned, adjusted or rebuilt. I kept my 8N51 at 6 volts and it know runs great but the generator and voltage regulator both needed attention to get it running as designed. I am converting my current tractor to 12 volts because I want the power available for the attachments I intend to use with the tractor. Like most above say, go for the low hanging fruit and do one thing at a time so you can control the number of variables you introduce into your trouble shooting.

 

[Mad Farmer]

As you learn and start working on your tractor keep in mind that it is over 70 years old and most likely most things have been neglected. Lots of good advice on this forum. When ever you look into something keep your eyes open for things that don't look right. For example when you eventually replace your points, have a look under the plate in your distributer and verify your weights are clean and free to move. See attached picture of what I found when I replaced points for the first time, frozen solid! I am not as experienced as most on this forum but, of the two tractors I have bought and worked/working on I have found that everything needed to be cleaned, adjusted or rebuilt. I kept my 8N51 at 6 volts and it know runs great but the generator and voltage regulator both needed attention to get it running as designed. I am converting my current tractor to 12 volts because I want the power available for the attachments I intend to use with the tractor. Like most above say, go for the low hanging fruit and do one thing at a time so you can control the number of variables you introduce into your trouble shooting.

Yes, 70-80 years old with an unknown history. As you fix one thing, be prepared to find two more that need fixing. In some cases it may be better to fix them all if you it get apart and not have to repeat removing/re-installing parts.

To Mr Marine, thank you for your service, and welcome!

Compression shows rings are pretty shot. Even if you have good ignition and proper air/fuel it's not going to run great. It may foul plugs easier. A hotter ignition/12V conversion will cost money, but only be a band aid. I'm kind of confused as in your first post you said the "resistor had 12V to the coil? Then you mentioned doing a conversion? Is it 6V or 12V battery in tractor?

If you just want to run/use it, It might be worth pulling the side mount distributor and cleaning out and lubricating the advance mech. and make sure the other components (points, cap/rotor, wires/plugs are in order). You could see if advance is working with a timing light if the tractor runs. Then put off pulling and cleaning the whole distributor, just set points/timing assuming cap/rotor etc look OK. With good spark (even with original system) then you can sort out carburetor/fuel system.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I’ve done compression tests. After I replace my head gasket with the cylinders dry I got: 1=82, 2=70, 3=72, 4=81. I then added oil to the cylinders and got: 1=125, 2=105, 3=90, 4=120. So yes the rings are probably bad but I was told by my neighbor that won’t keep it from running. What does the fuel test tell you? I don’t have my hood on. I have a small tank with 100% gas hooked to it. Also the thumbscrew is the large/long screw you can adjust with your thumb and index finger on the carburetor.

From you pix something that always haunts me is when someone wires the points direct thru the distributor base. I am not saying it can not be done but it will always be an issue. There is just not enoufh room for the extra wire its gonna rub and short out. I would put it on my list of things to correct the correct parts are available.... Life will be good.

Second there is nuttin wrong using a 6V coil on a 12V system as long as the correct resistor is used actually I prefer it.
To simplify it pitch the resistor and install a IC14SB coil. That's a NAPA # it can be cross referenced. Life will be good.

 

[Eman85]

The thumbscrew you're turning is the high speed carburetor mixture adjustment.
So from what I understand this tractor is being run on a portable fuel tank as the hood and tank are off of the tractor, is this correct?
Why did you replace the head gasket? Cold engine that hasn't been run will have low compression, did you hold the throttle wide open when checking? No air in there is less to compress. If the tractor doesn't run good on 6V it won't run any better on 12V. Don't go changing parts without a good diagnosis, new parts many times cause more problems than they fix.

 

[DN-N-TN]

Thanks to all of you. Yes I am a retired Marine (20+ years). My 8N has a side distributor. I like the idea of converting to 12 volt. I think that’s what I will do. Besides the coil, I need to replace the condenser and points? My neighbor who has many tractors came over and gave me a class on how points and resistors work. I feel like an idiot. We worked on the tractor a bit and got it to fire up but it won’t stay running for more than a few minutes. I think there might be an issue with the carburetor because sometimes if I mess with the thumb screw it will fire up. It might be a coincidence but I don’t know. I got a rebuild kit in from this site (YT) and plan on installing it today. My neighbor thinks I might have a couple valves sticking causing back firing. It starts sometimes no issues and other times it won’t start unless I mess with the throttle lever. Like I said it’s my first tractor and I appreciate your patience with my little knowledge of them. Any suggestions on what I should try next.

Tired Marine is my neighbor, and a heck of a good guy, with a lot of general automotive knowledge, but this is his first old tractor. A little history on this tractor; It had been sitting quite a while, and someone had been throwing parts at it and goofing up almost everything they touched by stabbing in the dark. Example: wires ran everywhere or hanging loose, carb had needle valve installed upside down. No compression at all on two cylinders---had stuck valves. It was out of time, cross wired, and many other things to many to list. Tired Marine did a good job on his wiring, and other things he's done. He pulled the head and side pans, freed the valves and replaced the gaskets.

He has a good blue spark now, but it wouldn't start till the condenser was replace with an old one I had. After we got it started, adjust the high speed jet, and set the time by ear, it ran as good as any 8N I've ever heard, for about 2-3 minutes, then started back firing and barely running, and I believe the two valves (intake) than were stuck, were trying to stick again as the engine warmed some, or maybe the old condenser was loading up. His tractor has been converted to 12V neg ground. When his resistor was showing 12V on each side shows me the points or condenser where keeping the coil from functioning right (no load on the resister, therefore, no voltage drop on the coil side).

I hesitated about jumping in the conversation, but felt like a little more info might help. He's open to any help and advise us older heads can give him, he's a good friend and neighbor, thanks, Dennis.