1972 IH 354 gas - PTO clutch will not disengage

[Mike789R]

The problem:
This past week I was bush hogging, done for the day I had taken the PTO out of gear. Drove around to the front of the barn and needed to use the bush hog briefly. Pushed clutch down, felt normal, tried to move the PTO lever to engage and got grinding gears. No way would it shift. Tried four different times over a few days and does the same thing. It's as if I was not pushing the clutch down.

History:
Bought from original owner in what I would consider very good condition. Has 2,400 hours on it and from what the dealer said, the previous owner was not a farmer. Used it to move firewood and bush hog.

Ran great after a tune up. Been using it for 1.5 years.
Two stage clutch.

The transmission clutch works fine. I can go into any gear forward or reverse. Also Low and High gears.

With the tractor turned off the PTO will not shift either. I had hoped I could engage the PTO with it off and then start the tractor, provided I had nothing hooked to the PTO. Nope.

Have plenty of experience with car repairs but a slightly experienced novice with tractors.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[used red MN]

Hello Mike welcome to YT! I would suggest trying this.
Repeat your try to engage the PTO with the engine off
but this time hold slight pressure on the lever and
bump the starter to see if it will engage that way that
way if slight teeth or notch alignment was a problem
where it stopped it may be able to slip in when turned
slightly. It really seems to me the two problems are not
connected, but not being that familiar with these
models I will claim I definitely do not have the most
solid advice here. It really sound to me like something
happened in the 2 stage clutch. I would find out what
the proper adjustment for it is and make sure that is
right.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

The lining fell off the disc and is jammed in there.
The reason you cant shift it with engine off is the
teeth on the jaws are very wide not like a spline. Try
light pressure on the control lever, engine off, while
bumping the starter and it should drop in. But if it
worked one day and the next day not, pretty sure
you have to split the tractor.

 

[Mike789R]

Thank you. I will give this a shot tomorrow.

(quoted from post at 16:09:54 06/26/22) Hello Mike welcome to YT! I would suggest trying this.
Repeat your try to engage the PTO with the engine off
but this time hold slight pressure on the lever and
bump the starter to see if it will engage that way that
way if slight teeth or notch alignment was a problem
where it stopped it may be able to slip in when turned
slightly. It really seems to me the two problems are not
connected, but not being that familiar with these
models I will claim I definitely do not have the most
solid advice here. It really sound to me like something
happened in the 2 stage clutch. I would find out what
the proper adjustment for it is and make sure that is
right.

 

[Mike789R]

Thank you. I will give this a shot tomorrow.

I had hoped for checking adjustments or linkages but the clutch pedal bolts directly to the shaft that enters the transmission. So nothing to adjust?

 

[JimB2]

Hi, see attached photo for adjusting clutch on a B414, your 354 is just a newer version with a smaller engine.

The spec for a 354 is 6-7/8 from foot rest to bottom of clutch pedal by adjusting screw #1 in the photo,
the free play is 1/2 to 3/4 by loosening the two screws #2 and rotating clutch shaft.
I don't believe it is the clutch adjustment as it happened all of a sudden, my experience has been that is the clutch adjustment wares slowly and the PTO will start to grind when engaging.
DO NOT FORCE the PTO engagement lever or you will shear the roll pin off on the engagement lever.

Do you have a service manual?

Use the [Send Email] button to send me an email.

 

[Mike789R]

Finally got out there and did the starter bump and it dropped right in gear. With engine off the PTO shift will fully move in and out now.

So, assuming the clutch plate is damaged, can the tractor be driven with the PTO off?
I'd like to drive it to my garage to work on it or if it's way more complicated, drive it to my local tractor mechanic.

 

[Mike789R]

That did work. With the engine off I can shift the PTO in or out of gear now.

With the PTO out of gear, is it safe to drive it a short distance or will I be causing more damage every time the engine is running?

I also talked with a local mechanic about replacing the PTO clutch. He gave a ballpark price just for labor of $1,300 to $1,600. Does that sound about right? Any idea how many hours this would take? I have a service manual and may do it myself. I do a good bit of auto repair but have not done a clutch since the early 80s.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Mike789R]

Fritz,

You said it is probably the lining falling off the disc.
With the PTO out of gear, can I drive the tractor or will I cause more damage?
I'd like to get it in my garage to work on it. If I need to tow it I will.

Thank you,

Mike