2n Timing/points question?

[Jim.ME]

Im running the 6v.

I tried to start it and it didnt fire. But seeing as how i got power to the coil im guessing the coil is fried from being wired wrong. (Before i just rewired it)

So what it sounds like i should do is get a new coil and put on, and get it started then see what the resistor does?

For the record it was the (new) factory resistor smoking, not the also new ceramic one.


The key was only on for maybe a total of 2 minutes broken up over several key on's to check voltages and stuff. Would that be enough to fry the also new points?

I understood it was the new "factory" resistor smoking and what I posted applied to it. Resistance makes heat. They can get quite hot, don't touch it even under normal running conditions or you risk burning your fingers.

If the key on time was a short as you say, I would not expect the points to be destroyed, unless they got a heavy current flow for some reason. Best to look at them. Did you clean the points with some uncoated card stock, a piece of brown paper bag or even a folded-up dollar bill to remove any surface coating/contamination after installing and gapping them? If you think they need more cleaning use a nonconductive sandpaper, not emery cloth and clean with an electrical cleaner when finished.

Whether or not the coil is fired is a guess. If the points aren't working due to contamination, or other reason, even a good coil won't make a spark. It could be the coil; I don't remember all your wiring issues that might have damaged it.

 

[DZG300]

I understood it was the new "factory" resistor smoking and what I posted applied to it. Resistance makes heat. They can get quite hot, don't touch it even under normal running conditions or you risk burning your fingers.

If the key on time was a short as you say, I would not expect the points to be destroyed, unless they got a heavy current flow for some reason. Best to look at them. Did you clean the points with some uncoated card stock, a piece of brown paper bag or even a folded-up dollar bill to remove any surface coating/contamination after installing and gapping them? If you think they need more cleaning use a nonconductive sandpaper, not emery cloth and clean with an electrical cleaner when finished.

Whether or not the coil is fired is a guess. If the points aren't working due to contamination, or other reason, even a good coil won't make a spark. It could be the coil; I don't remember all your wiring issues that might have damaged it.

I didnt clean the points because they were new, and i figured it wasnt needed....im very ignorant on points. But the tractor did run (and ran good) for a short time (10min maybe) with these points before i lost spark and started digging into the wiring.

Im 99% sure i got the wiring good now, before the factory resistor was btpassed (not by me) so im assuming the 6v coil was pry getting 8 or 9v....so thats why im figuring its cooked.


Ill get another coil and give it a shot. Atleast i know im only getting 4.5-5v to it now.

If it still wont start ill pull the distributor again and see how the points are.

 

[Jim.ME]

I didnt clean the points because they were new, and i figured it wasnt needed....im very ignorant on points. But the tractor did run (and ran good) for a short time (10min maybe) with these points before i lost spark and started digging into the wiring.

Im 99% sure i got the wiring good now, before the factory resistor was btpassed (not by me) so im assuming the 6v coil was pry getting 8 or 9v....so thats why im figuring its cooked.


Ill get another coil and give it a shot. Atleast i know im only getting 4.5-5v to it now.

The factory resistor is a PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) resistor. Cold it has low resistance as it warms the resistance increases. Cold more power to the coil for better starting, warm reduces the current to the points for better life.

New points can oxidize on the contact surfaces from setting on a shelf. Best practice is to clean/burnish the contact surfaces with uncoated paper as I posted.

If you use a 6-volt coil you need to use the "ceramic" ballast resistor as well as the factory one. If you use a 12-volt rated coil, it only needs the factory resistor.

 

[olddavid]

If the key on time was a short as you say, I would not expect the points to be destroyed, unless they got a heavy current flow for some reason. Best to look at them. Did you clean the points with some uncoated card stock, a piece of brown paper bag or even a folded-up dollar bill to remove any surface coating/contamination after installing and gapping them? If you think they need more cleaning use a nonconductive sandpaper, not emery cloth and clean with an electrical cleaner when finished.

If you can find one these days a point file works really great.

 

[DZG300]

The factory resistor is a PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) resistor. Cold it has low resistance as it warms the resistance increases. Cold more power to the coil for better starting, warm reduces the current to the points for better life.

New points can oxidize on the contact surfaces from setting on a shelf. Best practice is to clean/burnish the contact surfaces with uncoated paper as I posted.

If you use a 6-volt coil you need to use the "ceramic" ballast resistor as well as the factory one. If you use a 12-volt rated coil, it only needs the factory resistor.

Thats where i messed up.

I think whoever had the tractor before ran a 12v coil but bypassed the factory resistor and was only running the ceramic.

Then i came along thinking i needed a 6v coil becauae i had the ceramic resistor, which fried the 6v coil i bought.

Which led to me opening up the distributor and finding other issue, replacing coil/dist again (with 6v stuff), wiring it the same way, and burning up coil #2.

Now its wired correctly and i need to replace coil and see if points took any impact.

Sounds good in theory anyways

 

[Jim.ME]

If you can find one these days a point file works really great.

They do, but I generally reserve use of a file to burnt points. Dirty or contaminated point get cleaned. I have a roll of 3M commutator paper I bought years ago for cleaning armatures that work great for such things.

 

[DZG300]

If you can find one these days a point file works really great.

Ill see if i can buy one somewhere.

This is the first time ive dealt with them.

Ive had lots of older vehicles but they were all duraspark lol

 

[DZG300]

If you can find one these days a point file works really great.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER2153

Something like this?

 

[Jim.ME]

Thats where i messed up.

I think whoever had the tractor before ran a 12v coil but bypassed the factory resistor and was only running the ceramic.

Then i came along thinking i needed a 6v coil becauae i had the ceramic resistor, which fried the 6v coil i bought.

Which led to me opening up the distributor and finding other issue, replacing coil/dist again (with 6v stuff), wiring it the same way, and burning up coil #2.

Now its wired correctly and i need to replace coil and see if points took any impact.

Sounds good in theory anyways

Just to be clear, the points are a switch, they are the same ones whether on 6 or 12 volts. Likewise the same condenser work on both voltages.

 

[olddavid]

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER2153

Something like this?

Yep, that's it. With new points and the file lined up parallel with (important) and between the point surfaces (ignition off) a couple of swipes should do it.

 

[DZG300]

Awesome. Thanks guys. Ill keep ya updated

 

[olddavid]

Yep, that's it. With new points and the file lined up parallel with (important) and between the point surfaces (ignition off) a couple of swipes should do it.

PS You want the points to be in the closed position before inserting the file.

 

[DZG300]

PS You want the points to be in the closed position before inserting the file.

Noted thank you

 

[JMOR]

Am I the only one that does not think this makes sense?
"I got 12v from key switch to factory resistor, 8 volts from factory resistor to ceramic resistor, and 4.8ish volts from ceramic resistor to coil."

 

[DZG300]

Am I the only one that does not think this makes sense?
"I got 12v from key switch to factory resistor, 8 volts from factory resistor to ceramic resistor, and 4.8ish volts from ceramic resistor to coil."
View attachment 98544

Whats off about it?

I wired it like the diagram i found for 12v convrrsions using a 6v coil

 

[wore out]

Yep, that's it. With new points and the file lined up parallel with (important) and between the point surfaces (ignition off) a couple of swipes should do it.

Point files are for touching up burned points to make it to the shop to install new points.

I would NEVER put a file to new points and scrape up the smooth/shiny/not pitted factory "finish", this shortens point life making them addicted to be filed again and again going forward.

For new points, BURNISH them by drawing a clean strip of white cardstock through them several times, then (with the points open) clean the residue off with some spray electrical contact cleaner and allow to air dry before cranking to check for spark or attempting to start.

Also, CLEAN the feeler gauge with contact cleaner to get any and all oil off of it (including oil from your fingers) before inserting it between the points so as not to contaminate them.

 

[Mad Farmer]

If you do end up buying a new coil. don't cheap out.

Many of those made now are a POS.

I almost bought one a couple years back at TSC, the whole top of the coil was loose and could be wiggled. Also the pigtails can be poorly made and hard to make a good contact.

Standard makes 6V coils FD-475 Check orielly's $82. lifetime limited warranty

NAPA carries Balkamp/Sparex coils in 6 and 12 V ~$65 3 mo warranty

Echlin in 6V $110, 3 year warranty Price has ^^^^ $30 in 3 years!!!

 

[olddavid]

I would NEVER put a file to new points and scrape up the smooth/shiny/not pitted factory "finish", this shortens point life making them addicted to be filed again and again going forward.

I never thought of that. Thanks. Did you catch that DZG300?

Am I the only one that does not think this makes sense?
"I got 12v from key switch to factory resistor, 8 volts from factory resistor to ceramic resistor, and 4.8ish volts from ceramic resistor to coil."

Those look like voltage measurements to ground not across the resistors and if so they do make sense.

 

[JMOR]

Whats off about it?

I wired it like the diagram i found for 12v convrrsions using a 6v coil

Nothing between the 2 resistors except wire and that wire is dropping 8 volts!?
Similar argument for 4.8 volt wire only drop.

I never thought of that. Thanks. Did you catch that DZG300?

Those look like voltage measurements to ground not across the resistors and if so they do make sense.

A person should always say what they mean and mean what they say!

 

[DZG300]

Nothing between the 2 resistors except wire and that wire is dropping 8 volts!?
Similar argument for 4.8 volt wire only drop.

A person should always say what they mean and mean what they say!

No the resistors were dropping it down in voltage.

Anyways, i went out today and froze putting the coil on. It did pop to life and run about 10 seconds at a very low RPM.

The battery was weak though so i put it on the charger. Ill try again tomorrow. But its evidently getting some spark. If getting it cranking fast dont work im going to pull the plugs clean them up and if it still wont fire ill investigate the points.

It may wait till the weather gets warmer though, im really beginning to get frustrated with this thing lol.