300 u 6 to 12 v conversion update problem

[Paul 300 U]

Hope you can help.
Starting a new thread on the conversion. I proceeded with instructions for a Hitachi alternator posted a day or two ago. I completed the wiring and attempted to start the tractor and except for some sparks at the terminals nothing happened. (Ground to negative and starter to positive) No movement on the Anmeter. No hint of cranking. Nothing.

Here is what I did.

1. I installed a 50 amp fusible link at the Bat terminal of the alternator. I tried both the 40 and 60 amp fuse the store had in stock. Neither made a difference. I will get a 50 amp asap.

2. I ran a 10 ga wire from the fusible link in step one above to the Anmeter. The positive and negative Anmeter wires are now reversed from the original 6 volt positions.

3. I ran a 12ga wire from the L terminal to the positive terminal of the new 12 volt coil.

4. I inserted a 12 volt marker light on the above wire. The light only had one wire and what appeared to me as a screw hole for mounting to metal and would therefore ground. I inserted and fastened a wire into that screw hole. When I placed one wire on the positive and the other wire on the negative posts of my 12 volt battery it worked. This was the only non LED light 12 volt light of a reasonable size from my local auto parts store.

5. I ran a 10 ga wire from the S terminal to the Bat terminal.

6. I did nothing with voltage regulator.
Hopefully it's a simple issue or something dumb I've overlooked.
Thanks. Paul

 

[Janicholson]

Sparks at the Battery terminal (I assume) the terminal is corroded and is the problem clean both of them shiny in the terminal and stud. Jim

 

[used red MN]

In my opinion now with the new forum platform it is not a very good idea to start a new post on a topic that is only a week or less old. In fact it is my opinion that you should never start a new thread if you are still addressing the same subject. In the new platform your thread will now come to the top of the current list for the majority of folks. Those that needed to change their settings to work like Classic View used to apparently want to miss out on offering their knowledge on your subject, just my opinion. Now I am going to have to open another tab to refer back to your other post to see what you have going on. I do agree with Jim, sparks at a connection mean the connection is not being made properly. In other words loose or dirty or some other defect. I will be back with more after I look over your previous thread.

 

[used red MN]

Now that I have looked over what you have done, the first thing I see is that the wire from the marker lamp is on the wrong side of the coil. It should be on the side that is powered by the ignition switch. Also the wire from the ignition switch should now connect to the coil terminal marked positive (+). This has nothing to do with your no crank problem. Secondly, that fuse is not in the right place. On the starter solenoid on the large terminal the battery cable connects to there is a small wire there about a 10 gauge. That sends power to the whole tractor by way of the ammeter. This is the same way the diagram I posted shows, it just has no fuse in it. Place the fuse right off the solenoid feeding that wire. This would protect all the tractor’s wiring. Double check your connections for being clean and tight.

 

[used red MN]

Not sure what happened to the edit feature. Also I want to add I hope that the wire nut is only temporary if not get rid of that!!. Get a crimp on connector and buy a good crimp tool. Solder and shrink tube is the best, only type of connection that will last as well as the factory wiring.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Used Red MN. I debated whether to start a new post. I figured since you and Jim were the only ones who responded and that the topic had changed from converting from 6 to 12 to more specifically using a Hitachi, opening a new post made sense.

Thanks for looking over the post and pictures. The wire nut was only temporary until I could get to the auto parts store when they open. There's some cleaning up to do on a few of the connections as well as securing the old wiring but I wanted to make sure it was going to work or at least get some activity. I'm going to double check the connections. I thought was careful to make them secure but I obviously missed something. Thanks Paul

 

[used red MN]

I hope you saw what I said about the lamp connection at the coil and the comment on the polarity.
In all honesty I almost exclusively used Classic view before. The main reason I did so was because on longer topics they were displayed without being broken into pages. The second reason was that I felt it was easier to post links in Classic. While especially with the amount of pictures you posted (no complaint on that) the post may have extended into two pages. Which is really no problem, I much prefer the information to all be in one spot (post) even if it is spread onto several pages.
I have no complaints with the new layout, I know I missed some follow-up post on some subjects using Classic because I did not see them when they were revisited later but such as it is. I just see some inconsistencies here with other forums am on that use a similar platform where the particular functions seem to work better on those forums then they do here. All in time.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Sparks at the Battery terminal (I assume) the terminal is corroded and is the problem clean both of them shiny in the terminal and stud. Jim

Thanks Jim. I hope to get some time later today too get this cleaned up and make the changes used Red MN suggested. Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

I hope you saw what I said about the lamp connection at the coil and the comment on the polarity.
In all honesty I almost exclusively used Classic view before. The main reason I did so was because on longer topics they were displayed without being broken into pages. The second reason was that I felt it was easier to post links in Classic. While especially with the amount of pictures you posted (no complaint on that) the post may have extended into two pages. Which is really no problem, I much prefer the information to all be in one spot (post) even if it is spread onto several pages.
I have no complaints with the new layout, I know I missed some follow-up post on some subjects using Classic because I did not see them when they were revisited later but such as it is. I just see some inconsistencies here with other forums am on that use a similar platform where the particular functions seem to work better on those forums then they do here. All in time.

Used Red MN. I did see the corrections you recommended and hopefully can make the changes later today. I really appreciate this site but hadn't experimented enough to have learned the strengths and weaknesses of classic versus modern. I will be following up on my progress using this thread. Hopefully I can report success. Thanks Paul

 

[Paul 300 U]

Sparks at the Battery terminal (I assume) the terminal is corroded and is the problem clean both of them shiny in the terminal and stud. Jim

Terminals and posts clean and shiny. Still nothing. I know power is going at least part way through the system. After the cleaning I gave it a try and got sparks at the Anmeter terminal. I failed to tape off the disconnected A wire and it came in contact with connected wires at the Anmeter terminals. I will have more details and pics in my response to used Red MN.

 

[Janicholson]

Terminals and posts clean and shiny. Still nothing. I know power is going at least part way through the system. After the cleaning I gave it a try and got sparks at the Anmeter terminal. I failed to tape off the disconnected A wire and it came in contact with connected wires at the Anmeter terminals. I will have more details and pics in my response to used Red MN.

You do have the battery connected negative ground. An assumption that could take out the fuse link if I am wrong.. The sparks at the ammeter will be a clear no function issue. cleaning that and snigging it down will make it go. jim

 

[Paul 300 U]

I hope you saw what I said about the lamp connection at the coil and the comment on the polarity.
In all honesty I almost exclusively used Classic view before. The main reason I did so was because on longer topics they were displayed without being broken into pages. The second reason was that I felt it was easier to post links in Classic. While especially with the amount of pictures you posted (no complaint on that) the post may have extended into two pages. Which is really no problem, I much prefer the information to all be in one spot (post) even if it is spread onto several pages.
I have no complaints with the new layout, I know I missed some follow-up post on some subjects using Classic because I did not see them when they were revisited later but such as it is. I just see some inconsistencies here with other forums am on that use a similar platform where the particular functions seem to work better on those forums then they do here. All in time.

I cleaned the battery terminals and posts as Jim recommended. I also switched the wires as you recommended. Unfortunately the is no movement on the Anmeter an absolutely no sign of cranking. I checked all of the connections and I can't see any issues. I also tried eliminating the in line fuse and wiiring directly with no luck. As is obvious I have no experience with electrical but here are a couple of questions or thoughts.

1. I removed and ran a new wire to the Anmeter that was the generator A wire. Should I have done anything with the F wire that was attached to the generator?

2. Before I confirmed that I was using a Hitachi alternator you pointed me to set a steps for 6 to 12v alternator conversion by M Kirsch. Are there any steps in that list I should be following?

3.Should I be doing anything with the voltage regulator?

I added pictures of where I am now. Please let me know if I missed anything.
Thanks for the help. Paul

 

[caterpillar guy]

I only have this to say on it. If it is not rolling over you have a few things to check. 1 is charge on battery up 12.6 or so. 2 if it has a push button to start it like an H if the run wire is on the wrong side it will start then stop when you let off the switch. 3 Dirty connections and the wires in the wrong positions on the amp gauge and at the coil. I would also loose the light in line with the wire to the coil for now if needed later put it back then. We wire the excite wire into the ignition switch so it is on when running and off when the switch is off on tractors with an off on switch. Also is the solenoid connected in right to start? Little wire on the S terminal with the coil wire there also and then the bypass wire to the resistor on the run side when the switch is in the run position and not at the start position.

 

[Janicholson]

The light should stay where it is!! putting the excite wire on the Key switch will let it keep running! the light bulb passes enough electricity to excite to operation, then that terminalgoes 12v positive without the light diode or resistor, the engine stays running. Jim

 

[used red MN]

On you ammeter I see a stock connection as viewed in the picture on the right side of the ammeter. Does that have power all the time when the battery is connected? In the photo I see another stock wire coming up in the foreground of the picture and its terminal end is out of the frame of the picture, I assume this was originally connected to the ammeter as well. So that may be the wire that is powered all the time. The wires you took off the ammeter all need to be reconnected to it and your wire from the alternator also has to be connected. Figure out which wire that is powered all the time coming from the starter solenoid, then it needs to be on one side of the ammeter all others wires will be on the terminal opposite of it. In the end we will just need to see if the ammeter registers correctly then swap the wires side to side if it reads in reverse. Apparently interpreting a wiring diagram is not your strong suit. By not having the stock wires all connected to the ammeter you have essentially disconnected the power to the ignition switch so the result you are experiencing would be expected.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Hope you can help.
Starting a new thread on the conversion. I proceeded with instructions for a Hitachi alternator posted a day or two ago. I completed the wiring and attempted to start the tractor and except for some sparks at the terminals nothing happened. (Ground to negative and starter to positive) No movement on the Anmeter. No hint of cranking. Nothing.

Here is what I did.

1. I installed a 50 amp fusible link at the Bat terminal of the alternator. I tried both the 40 and 60 amp fuse the store had in stock. Neither made a difference. I will get a 50 amp asap.

2. I ran a 10 ga wire from the fusible link in step one above to the Anmeter. The positive and negative Anmeter wires are now reversed from the original 6 volt positions.

3. I ran a 12ga wire from the L terminal to the positive terminal of the new 12 volt coil.

4. I inserted a 12 volt

Hope you can help.
Starting a new thread on the conversion. I proceeded with instructions for a Hitachi alternator posted a day or two ago. I completed the wiring and attempted to start the tractor and except for some sparks at the terminals nothing happened. (Ground to negative and starter to positive) No movement on the Anmeter. No hint of cranking. Nothing.

Here is what I did.

1. I installed a 50 amp fusible link at the Bat terminal of the alternator. I tried both the 40 and 60 amp fuse the store had in stock. Neither made a difference. I will get a 50 amp asap.

2. I ran a 10 ga wire from the fusible link in step one above to the Anmeter. The positive and negative Anmeter wires are now reversed from the original 6 volt positions.

3. I ran a 12ga wire from the L terminal to the positive terminal of the new 12 volt coil.

4. I inserted a 12 volt marker light on the above wire. The light only had one wire and what appeared to me as a screw hole for mounting to metal and would therefore ground. I inserted and fastened a wire into that screw hole. When I placed one wire on the positive and the other wire on the negative posts of my 12 volt battery it worked. This was the only non LED light 12 volt light of a reasonable size from my local auto parts store.

5. I ran a 10 ga wire from the S terminal to the Bat terminal.

6. I did nothing with voltage regulator.
Hopefully it's a simple issue or something dumb I've overlooked.
Thanks. Paul

marker light on the above wire. The light only had one wire and what appeared to me as a screw hole for mounting to metal and would therefore ground. I inserted and fastened a wire into that screw hole. When I placed one wire on the positive and the other wire on the negative posts of my 12 volt battery it worked. This was the only non LED light 12 volt light of a reasonable size from my local auto parts store.

5. I ran a 10 ga wire from the S terminal to the Bat terminal.

6. I did nothing with voltage regulator.
Hopefully it's a simple issue or something dumb I've overlooked.
Thanks. Paul

Jim N. Used Red MN, Caterpillar guy. Thanks all for your help. I put the wiring back per there original steps Jim provided. I followed up on Used Red advice to test the loose wire he noticed in my picture. I tested that wire and it was hot continuously. I put all of the others on one side of the Anmeter and just that hot wire on the other and sure enough everything works! Engine turns fast and starts right up! Light was on continuously and my Anmeter indicates Charge. That was in my 45 degree garage. I let it sit overnight to see if the battery drained dow. Not too cold this morning, about 25 degrees but it fires right up.
My mistake (in addition to not ever having touched electrical) was not replacing the wire I removed when I ran the new wire from the Bat to the Anmeter. I assumed that new wire was replacing an existing wire not run in addition to the new wire.
Please let me know you received this and thanks again for your patience and help.

 

[Janicholson]

That crisp startup feature is sure refreshing when it all comes together. You now understand that which was an obscure and challenging element of that tractor. We try to "see" through a few photons and descriptions. we try to teach as much as do remote surgery. Thanks.

 

[used red MN]

Thank you, glad to help. Are you saying the marker lamp is illuminated all the time when it is running? If so something is wrong. It should light when you turn the key on when the engine is stopped. Then when the engine starts and the alternator starts charging it should go out. When you turn the key off to stop the engine the light should illuminate briefly while the excite circuit is trying to power the coil. But since the bulb in the lamp will not carry enough current it lights instead of the coil operating properly and the engine dies, then the light will be out. Also if the alternator is not charging it will illuminate dimly. In other words it should work like a normal idiot light.

 

[Paul 300 U]

Unfortunately yes the light is on all of the time. While I've started the tractor 3 or 4 times it's only run less than a minute if that makes any difference. I'm taking it out of the garage tomorrow I'll run it for ten minutes or so and see what happens. If the light is not supposed to be on all of the time, what is the problem and solution.

By the way, both the F and A wires that began at the old generator are not connected or removed. They are currently taped off if that makes any difference. One difficulty has been that the existing wiring is still in the old conduit so I can't necessarily see where a wire begins and ends. Thanks!

 

[Paul 300 U]

That crisp startup feature is sure refreshing when it all comes together. You now understand that which was an obscure and challenging element of that tractor. We try to "see" through a few photons and descriptions. we try to teach as much as do remote surgery. Thanks.

It sure was great to hear it start! I'm well aware of my knowledge and skill level but I enjoy trying to get these tractors running. ( I'm up to 3 now) That said I don't know if you've seen Used Red MN comment about the light being on all of the time. I commented further in my reply to him if you care to look at that post. Thanks again. Paul