538 MOCO

[Texasmark1]

Not a tractor but it's a Ford. Figured I'd get better coverage here. Just acquired a 9' 538 MOCO. This is a 1980-82 year model and I can't believe that I got the Owner's and Repair manuals with it....also the draw bar adapter, and 2 spare sickles in usable shape, rollers are 98% with good bearings and new tires. Having had JD and NH, this is a different machine and I like the design. Had the selling aftermarket dealer run it up and it is smooth and quiet. Wobble box is leaking a little oil which I will fix with Lubriplate 105 but is rugged and no slop in the drive. Seems the only thing I need to do is flush out the oil in the hyd. line, put new packing in the lift cylinders and replace the wobble box drive belt. The belt on the other side is 75%.

The lift cylinder parts list shows a Kit at the bottom of the list (H389270R1). I want to redo the "packing" and wonder if this Kit contains all the O rings and fabric packing that wears out needing replacing. Does the kit contain what is needed to do the job? The manuals show me how to get the cylinder out....was wondering that at the sellers place before I had time to look in the manuals.

Next the (drive ?) belt coming off the wobble box, or near it...haven't gotten too far into it yet, needs replacing (H567947R2). Seems that if I remove the chains and disconnect the wobble box from the sickle and frame bolts below, I can slip the belt under it to get it on. Yes no? Easier way?

As usual, comments appreciated.
Mark

 

[RayJohnson]

No good without pictures.

 

[Sean in PA]

That kit would contain all of the internal o-rings and felt washers, but it appears to have been discontinued and is no longer available. Your best bet would be to remove the cylinder from the mower and take it to a local hydraulics shop. They should be able to source the individual parts.

 

[Texasmark1]

No sir. McKissicks has my order, $22 each kit, parts to arrive their station in 3-7 days and 3-7 days out to me.....no hurry on my part obviously. The belt
was in stock, $37 but worth it, and upon close examination the belt won't be all that hard to change after all.

While I have your attention, the reason I suspected the cylinder on the curb side was leaking was because when raising the cutter, the opposite side came
up faster than the curb side. Upon examining today, the ⅜" single port hyd line comes from the tractor and goes back to the cylinders, dropping off at the
tow side in a tee and then steel tubing across the cutter where it enters the curb side.

Well seems to me that due to the size of the hyd. line, and series feed, and like 10' longer run for the curb side, it should take longer for the curb side to
respond. so it will (should) lag the other side enough to make the deck tilt till it reaches the full up position where the deck is level......Make sense? Full up
and full down positions are level.

I Just don't recall my other swathers doing that but do not recall how many cylinders were used and how they were plumbed.

Thanks guys for your time.

 

[Sean in PA]

Did you call Messicks to confirm? Most of the time if their site says 3-5 or 3-7 business days for an old Ford part, it usually means that it is actually no longer available. When I put in the part number for that kit it allows me to order it but it has this message on the screen:

A part on your order has been discontinued. We allow the ordering of discontinued parts because Messick's has several places to source these items after the manufacturer has ended support. Inventories in these warehouses are not available electronically. We encourage you to place an order, and we will do our best to locate the parts you need.

 

[Texasmark1]

No sir, I didn't talk with them. The belt listed on the invoice as "in stock" and the cylinder kits were listed as I mentioined. The invoice completed so I
assume that they really are backordered and Mc has a receive date from the mfgr.

As I posted somewhere, both cylinders are in their correct position full up and full down. It's just that the curb side is slower getting there. In looking at
the plumbing, the curb side feed is in series with the other side and has a 10' length of ⅜ pipe. It very well may be that the delay is just to the way the two
are plumbed......never had/saw/knew of anyone with one so I don't know if that is how they operated new.

 

[sotxbill]

are the cyls the same size? if so, the curb side usually lifted faster as it has less weight??? might be a restrictor in the line to control the flow rate?? Does it hold when you turn off the tractor? Mine would leak down over a couple of days.

 

[Texasmark1]

As a matter of fact before I left the seller's lot, he pumped the cylinders up to the top and went around and inserted the pins. Today I was going to see
how heavy the header was as I was going to use my auto-engine-lift to hold things up while I did some work. So I got things ready to see if I could pull the
pins and if not, jack it up till I could.

Both pins were loose, just like when he installed them Friday. That tells me that there isn't anything wrong with the cylinder seals.

I agree with the way yours works rather than for level lifting for cosmetic reasons, or for reasons where you want to change the height while cutting this
crop or that crop, you would want to use the cylinders to raise the platform to the desired level. No way as it is.

Your idea about a restrictor may have some merit. I'll check the parts breakdown as soon as I finish this and see if it shows one and where. Best I can tell
the hyd. lines haven't been disturbed. Surely the PO didn't use it like this unless he had 2 positions, up for transport and all the way down for cutting. All
the way down the sickle bar is about 4" off the ground which is where I want it, and the skid plates support that height.

Ot, I got the drawbar extender with it and today decided the 3910 would be the driving vehicle. Checked the length, 18 ?" and the towbar and the
extender were able to setup the correct dimension. Neat, Ford PTO, Ford drawbar, Ford swather......everything matches and hooks up perfectly. I really
like this cutter even though I haven't had it in the field. Working on it is a piece of cake. Drive and cutterbar much better engineered than the JD 1207 and
1209s that I previously had.

Since you said you had one, on both sides, just in front of the springs is a, near center, pivoting (seesaw kind of thing) casting about 10" long with a short
piece of chain on the rear and a shackle connection to something that moves when the upper roller moves on the front end...best I can tell. What is the
purpose of those?

Thanks for your time.
Mark

 

[Texasmark1]

Ha. That didn't take long: https://www.messicks.com/nh/52750

Item 18. Thanks for the tip. Will check tomorrow and see if it is in there and in serviceable condition......Whadddddda deal. Grin Since Mc was so kind as to give me a parts list and schematic/assembly diagram so that I could order parts, the least I could do was to buy parts from him....but his prices are very affordable....shipping is ok considering somebody has to look it up, get it, package it, do the paper work, ship it.....worth 20 bucks.

 

[Texasmark1]

Not where I expected to find it.....fluid inlet which means it restricts the flow for both cylinders. Well common sense tells me that if you have a little hole in a disc in a line to limit flow, you surely aren't going to be worrying about one cylinder being plumbed 9' away from the other...pressure drop along the line type thing.

Something else here. Will keep at it.

Thanks

 

[Texasmark1]

Then thinking about maybe dirty fluid and trash accumulating at the inlet to the slow cylinder....doesn't seem to be a problem as the restrictor would by design limit contamination....unless a hose deterioriated and rubber particles are slowing things down.

Problem with trouble shooting the supply line, to do it right need to get to it at the cylinder, meaning the cylinder has to be disconnected and worked out through the access port at the rear anyway. If I'm going to all that much trouble I'll just change the cylinder's packing while I'm there.

Another question. Never operated a single port cylinder. I have a Cross brand, after market, single, 2 way control, open center. No problem filling the cylinder, but when the lever is put in the drop position, and on a double cylinder you send fluid to the opposite port to force the cylinder to collapse, will the control open to the sump and let the fluid trapped in the cylinder drain through the control and back into the sump?

Still thinking, I guess it will as it would have to allow a pumped up double inlet cylinder vent the up cavity as the lever was put in the down position and the down cavity was filling. Makes sense.

 

[Sean in PA]

Another question. Never operated a single port cylinder. I have a Cross brand, after market, single, 2 way control, open center. No problem filling the cylinder, but when the lever is put in the drop position, and on a double cylinder you send fluid to the opposite port to force the cylinder to collapse, will the control open to the sump and let the fluid trapped in the cylinder drain through the control and back into the sump?

Yes, as long as gravity is pressing down on the cylinder it should drop. The greater the force of gravity, the faster it will drop.

 

[Texasmark1]

Instead of sleeping, I was possibly solving the mystery in my mental subconsciousness. When I was working, I solved a lot of my toughest problems in my sleep, Kind of like therapy, or learning things, playing a tape while you are asleep, amazing what you can recollect, believe it or not. Just like you can remember things that happened to you 50 years ago like it was yesterday, having no association with the subject over the years. Once planted in your brain it's there....just gotta get the recollection mechanism tuned up.

I got the coffee pot going this morning and went out checking for the restrictor on the end of the hose. NO RESTRICTOR, Item 18. Just an interesting inlet hose, item 17 in that it has a ⅜ coupling on the rear to feed the ⅜ distribution system, but a ?" on the front to fit common hyd fittings for this size equipment. Mc has it in stock and order is going out today!

Hose seems to be newer and maybe some of the PO's handywork, or could be an OEM qualified replacement, just left off installing the restrictor. Maybe he left the restrictor out because it surely made the transitioning from up to down slow and he was in a hurry and uniform lift was of no concern to him.

Thanks for your comments guys.
Mark

 

[sotxbill]

Mark,

Not the answer you want to hear, but on my moco, the cyls are for lifting over obstacles, and traveling. The cutting height was set by the ""shoes"" on the bottom on either side. So maybe your "over thinking" this??? The springs were set so it could and would bounce over objects at around 30 lbs iirc..... However my ford moco was an earlier model than yours. After a couple of hours, I could NOT pull the pins on mine. hope this helps?

 

[Texasmark1]

Thanks Bill,

Since I never had Farming 101, I had to take other courses at the "School of Hard Knocks!". After 40 years sitll trying to learn how to farm. Well, this is no
different. I just read that the shoes and the springs are what carries the MOCO when in the field and the hydraulics are just for, as you said, transporting.

I got the springs off yesterday, and looking at the task of replacing the cylinder's packing and the fact that I now know that it doesn't matter that one side
lifts before the other, I can do with the uneven raising and lowering.....the unit doesn't seem to mind....maybe if something were to break in doing that, it
would already be broken.....the seesaw rocker arms and chains I mentioned.

Mc looks like they are only going to come through with the belt. That may be a blessing in disguise. Now that I have the spring adjusting bolts out and
cleaned up, I think I will put all that back together, set the tension....manual says 70# per side for this unit which falls in line with other comments I read on
here from the archives, finish flushing out the old fluid, install the belt and put her in the shed ready to go.

Thanks and thanks to you other guys that contributed to this post.

 

[sotxbill]

Couple more thoughts...

the bottom end must have great guards, blades, wear plates and hold downs on it and it will cut like a finish mower. On mine the NH guards wear far better than aftermarket as the cutting ledgers built into them were far superior, so check for good aftermarket design before you buy.

The pivot straps where the "cutting head" pivots on the main chassis were worn an this caused the head to move back a bit it then ate chain gear teeth off, so I had to simply rebuilt the straps. only thing bad, was you had to stand the cutter nearly on its butt to get too them.


Wet fire ant mounds are wet/muddy enough in the early morn that they will clog up the guards and not let grass into the cutter so you have to carry a hoe to clear them or wait till the dew drys

Modified mine to put an extra cyl on the swing tounge so that i could pivot it to road position from tractor, and this allowed me to go through the various gates with out dismounting from tractor as I have lots of pastures to cut. Saved a lot of time and aggravation, and did not have to mess with a wheel chock and rope to swing the moco ten times a day...

The moco was the best hay cutter of all the hay cutters that I have used, even for coastal hay. used it for 25 years and sold it for a profit,,, mainly because I got a really good offer on it.

 

[Texasmark1]

Thanks for the update. Current position, got the wobble box disconnected and moved out of the way so that I could get that drive belt off.....waiting on Mc
so send my belt.

I started into pull the cylinders yesterday for a rebuild and it was getting involved, but after you and others had mentioned that the cylinders are only used
for transport and not cutting, and the fact that they hold well when fully up and not needed when down, I decided that to get the cylinders out and rebuild
required more work than I was prepared to do (as I work alone but have a lot of assets for assistance) and since it really wasn't needed I just put things
back together.

Last night while I was in the subconscious- sleep state as mentioned, I decided to put a variable flow valve in the good cylinder pressure line. This
morning I went to the Salvage Parts site mentioned in an answer to this post and got the bi-directional valve, short piece of adapter hose and hyd. fittings,
TTL for $63......whadda deal. Now I can set the left side to match the right side and when things change, I can just adjust the valve. (needle valve with a +
handle like is on your water faucet) to even them back up.

Once the belt gets here will take half an hour to get it installed and things finished up. It'll be ready to cut.

I really appreciate the time spent by all participants in helping me come to a satisfactory completion of this project.

 

[Texasmark1]

Update: In today's mail I received the hyd. parts from The Surplus Center......that's 2 days after order placement and USPS priority postage was cheap, like $13, no handling charges. Got the parts installed, set the valve for full open as it's made for an 8 gpm system and I thought I would burp it and run wide open first, then start cranking it down (6 turns max to max) until things balanced out.

To my surprise It came up within a couple of inches side to side and after burping, less than that. Was running about 1k RPM on my 3910 and it took just a couple of seconds to top out and being a single cylinder and I am running it off a bi-directional valve, it took about 30 seconds to drop all the way down, balanced slightly more variation than up.

One of these days I might get "A Round Tuit".....(they exist) and repair the cylinder but I don't currently see it on the horizon.

Thanks for your assistance in getting this problem to a happy conclusion.