574 with D239 fuel issues

[JimB2]

Not sure how anybody could buy a 574 in the late 60's when they were not even out till 1970 according to Tractor Data. Maybe an earlier model like a 54 series or 44. I've never seen one with a CAV pump on it but then I have not seen every one made either.

Hi Caterpillar Guy,
If my memory is correct as I am now 75 years old, it was the fall of 1968 my last year at college. Dad had a 1962, IH B414D and a 1956, JD 420U with front end loader with mechanical dump and he was looking to trade the JD for a Diesel tractor in the 40 HP range with a loader with hydraulic bucket and power steering. One Friday in mid Sept., I had come home after class from College to help Dad with corn chopping and Dad informed me that he had made arrangements after the milking was finished with the new JD dealer in the area to look at an IH 574 that he had taken in on trade. The story was that a local farmer had bought the IH 574 earlier that summer and used it for haying and did not like the left hand shift and JD dealer offered him a good trade in deal on a JD 2020 Diesel. It was almost dark by the time we arrived at JD dealer's but he had the IH 574 inside the shop so we looked it over, it had just over 100 Hrs on the tach, had a CAV fuel system that we were familiar with from B414D and neighbor's MF 35 but it had this ether starting system that had a T-handle up by the PTO lever that in cold weather you were to pump the handle three times then start cranking engine and pump the handle every so many seconds until engine was running properly. I do not know where the ether canister was located. After driving the 574 around the yard in the dark, Dad decided not to buy it as there was no loader for it and he was unsure about the left hand gear shifting. Later in spring of 1969, he traded JD 420U and loader for IH 434 with 1501 loader with hydraulic bucket.
I have no clue how that 574 was sold in Canada, if it was a demo unit sent to IH in Canada as there were no requirements like USA with Nebraska Testing and at that time before the EU Common Market, tractors coming from UK had no duties entering Canada. I know neighbor traded his IH 434 for new 574 in spring of 1971 and it had the Bosch fuel system.
That is my story.

 

[Southy]

Alright folks sorry for the long wait, free time to wrench is few and far between anymore.

I had it hooked up to the trickle charger yesterday night and got to bleeding this morning when I got home from work. Was able to get it without bubbles to the upper bleeder screw in about a minute of the lift pump running. Cranked it over with the stop-start-run lever just barely on start. No go. Got it to start on RUN after a spritz of ether.

Ran it for about 5 minutes and the line that runs to the right tilt ram for the bucket blew. Luckily the ag store up the road was open. Got the new one in in an hour and 90 dollars later.

Topped up the diesel and hydro, started right back up with a quick shot of ether on RUN and WOT, ran it for about an hour demoing a raised bed, and then it hit aagain. RPMs jump to the moon for a few seconds, then it slowly trickles back down to a stall. Just hopped off a minute ago without trying to crank it. Gonna hop back on in a minute and give it a go.


Any suggestions? Some type of heat related issue maybe? Gauges all appear to be fine, except fuel level. But I have not verified with other gauges.

 

[JimB2]

It still appears like a fuel delivery issue, ether crud in the tank or crud in one of those banjo bolts blocking fuel flow.
Look at photo below of a B414D with CAV fuel system, the RED arrows are fuel flow into the filter on the right and on the left Red arrow is fuel flow out of the filter into the pump. The Blue arrows are the return fuel flow back to the tank.
There are Arrows on top of the ports on the fuel filter housing, could you please check your 574 fuel filter housing port arrows match the fuel flow diagram below as from your 574 photo the outer fuel filter port appears to be connected to the Input port of the injection pump. There could be different styles of fuel filter housing but please verify the Arrows on top of the ports.

 

[used red MN]

You make no mention or I can’t find where you addressed Jim’s post about the filters and the groove that may be partially blocks by a oring placed in a misunderstood position. Look at this post, it very clearly shows the possible problem.

NAPA/WIX fuel filter explained!

www.yesterdaystractors.com

 

[Southy]

You make no mention or I can’t find where you addressed Jim’s post about the filters and the groove that may be partially blocks by a oring placed in a misunderstood position. Look at this post, it very clearly shows the possible problem.

NAPA/WIX fuel filter explained!

www.yesterdaystractors.com

I thought I had addressed it in the lead post. When I re threaded the drain plug hole I could have installed the o ring incorrectly. However it seemed to be right when i put it together last time, seal was pressed into the base not the filter so it shouod seal on the lip not in the grooves.

I'll verify that the new dual filter assembly did not come assembled incorrectly and get that installed next time I wrench on it. Hopefully tomorrow.

And thank you for the link, I'd seen this issue addressed many times but somehow didn't see that post before.

 

[used red MN]

Okay, didn’t read that close enough. If the replacement filter are original CAV then it is no worry. The “screen type” hole pattern on top of those filters are not susceptible to this problem.

 

[JimB2]

When you install the new filter head, examine all the banjo bolts to make sure the passage through the center of the bolt has no crud in it also check the condition of that braided fuel line that goes from the filter housing to the rear of the injection pump for the rubber part collapsing inside the steel braid.

 

[Southy]

So I made a little time this morning when I got off work. I put new o rings on injector hard lime fittings at the pump. I verified the lines coming in and out of the filter and pump match the picture posted above. I could not access the filter inlet banjo bolt without removing the housing, which I didn't get to. But I removed all other banjo bolts and none of them have strainers.

The braided line from the filter outlet to the pump inlet is rough. Parts of the outer sheath are damaged. And the fitting was aimed in a way that it partially kinked the hose where the braided sheath is damaged.

I did a short search, but can anyone point me towards a replacement hose, or should I plan on just buying banjo barbs and some fuel hose and making it happen?

I will detach the filter housing from the block next time I get into it and inspect the last banjo bolt. And hopefully get the new filter assy, and any other o rings I can find replaced.

 

[Southy]

Found the hose. I'll order it on pay day.

Case IH #91761337 HOSE

HOSE

www.messicks.com

 

[caterpillar guy]

I still don't get the lift pump that never came on those models far as I know unless it is something for those junk CAV systems. Our 574 and 674 neither have the lift pump and one has the CAV junk glass filter base ans filter. Glass no more but aluminum in place of it on both now. I would look more into the flow out of the tank and return fittings on the tank since it runs and then shuts down I think your still starving for fuel in that short time.

 

[JimB2]

I still don't get the lift pump that never came on those models far as I know unless it is something for those junk CAV systems. Our 574 and 674 neither have the lift pump and one has the CAV junk glass filter base ans filter. Glass no more but aluminum in place of it on both now. I would look more into the flow out of the tank and return fittings on the tank since it runs and then shuts down I think your still starving for fuel in that short time.

Cat Guy,
See photos below from UK, IH Workshop Manual showing the early CAV fuel system on the Doncaster tractors.

 

[Southy]

I still don't get the lift pump that never came on those models far as I know unless it is something for those junk CAV systems. Our 574 and 674 neither have the lift pump and one has the CAV junk glass filter base ans filter. Glass no more but aluminum in place of it on both now. I would look more into the flow out of the tank and return fittings on the tank since it runs and then shuts down I think your still starving for fuel in that short time.

I'm trying to save removing the petcocks on the bottom of the tank until I run it lower on diesel if I can. Just filled it when I took the filter bottom off to re thread the drain plug.

I am starting to think that there is crud in the tank covering the outlet or something. Who knows if the PO did what he said. Or if maybe something has flaked off or fell in since.

Anyone know off hand what thread is coming out of the bottom of the tank, so I can buy a plug or something? I don't have an extra set of hands unfortunately to finger it for me while I blow the lines out.

 

[Little Fred]

1/2-20 is the thread size for the fuel shutoff listed here on YT

 

[caterpillar guy]

I guess I will not say more since ours are pipe thread. 1/4 NTP Must be something like that problematic Lucas electrical system that is odd here also. Neighbor has some of that on a tractor. Ours are all Delco electrical on them. Not sold they are much better either. The interesting part of the pictures is, the tractor pictured is more like the 84 and later series. Than the 54 and 74 series they are talking about in the book.

 

[JimB2]

I guess I will not say more since ours are pipe thread. 1/4 NTP Must be something like that problematic Lucas electrical system that is odd here also. Neighbor has some of that on a tractor. Ours are all Delco electrical on them. Not sold they are much better either. The interesting part of the pictures is, the tractor pictured is more like the 84 and later series. Than the 54 and 74 series they are talking about in the book.

I totally agree the photo on the cover page is like an 84 series tractor not the 54/74 series tractors although being a reproduction manual the photo of the tractor on the cover page could have came from anywhere.

 

[RedMVa]

It’s obviously a European model tractor, ( not North American )if you get fuel to the filters via the lift pump it gravity feeds from the filters plus some pressure, So if filters are bled and your fuel supply is good there, your injection pump needs work or it needs bleeding and maybe injector lines need to be loosened to bleed. Don’t know the procedure for that system since I’ve never seen one in person. With your statement that it revved high and quit, I’d be looking more towards what the inj pump is doing.

 

[Southy]

It’s obviously a European model tractor, ( not North American )if you get fuel to the filters via the lift pump it gravity feeds from the filters plus some pressure, So if filters are bled and your fuel supply is good there, your injection pump needs work or it needs bleeding and maybe injector lines need to be loosened to bleed. Don’t know the procedure for that system since I’ve never seen one in person. With your statement that it revved high and quit, I’d be looking more towards what the inj pump is doing.

Are you able to give me any info on diagnostic with the injection pump?

My big thing with questioning the inj pump is that it was driven to my house by the PO, and I operated it for a couple hours til I ran it out of fuel. All this started once I lost prime and has to start breaking connections loose to bleed it. Sediment in the tank or a damaged fitting seem more likely. I'm gonna just start from the tank and go around looking for spots. Again.

 

[Southy]

Are you able to give me any info on diagnostic with the injection pump?

My big thing with questioning the inj pump is that it was driven to my house by the PO, and I operated it for a couple hours til I ran it out of fuel. All this started once I lost prime and has to start breaking connections loose to bleed it. Sediment in the tank or a damaged fitting seem more likely. I'm gonna just start from the tank and go around looking for spots. Again.

I also don't know much of anything about diesels so I am taking any bit of advice I can get. When I work my way around to the inj pump I'll remove and inspect for clogged ports, maybe disassemble if it doesn't have any funky gaskets I can't reuse or cut myself.

 

[used red MN]

I also don't know much of anything about diesels so I am taking any bit of advice I can get. When I work my way around to the inj pump I'll remove and inspect for clogged ports, maybe disassemble if it doesn't have any funky gaskets I can't reuse or cut myself.

Do yourself a favor, don’t attempt to disassemble that injection pump. Fairly tricky units for the average Joe to pop open. If you get to that point I would suggest you contact the poster Dieseltech who posts on these forums. He runs an injection pump repair shop in Indiana. You can remove it and ship it to him. Knowing when you put it back on there it will be right will be worth the few 100 bucks of his fee.

 

[Southy]

Do yourself a favor, don’t attempt to disassemble that injection pump. Fairly tricky units for the average Joe to pop open. If you get to that point I would suggest you contact the poster Dieseltech who posts on these forums. He runs an injection pump repair shop in Indiana. You can remove it and ship it to him. Knowing when you put it back on there it will be right will be worth the few 100 bucks of his fee.

I appreciate that. I've seen some his posts in old threads about this stuff. I'll keep him in mind if I do end up needing to touch the guts of it.