8n 1951 PTO-HYDRAULICS-GEARS ALL QUIT SAME TIME

[Silver Eagle]

8N 1951 has 2speed hi-lo with reverse,1st-2nd-3rd gears.....I was mowing when everything but the motor QUIT.........PTO stopped.......HYDRAULICS stopped.....all GEARS stopped working at the same time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance and a special thanks to Chris Pratt for all his help signing on.

This post was edited by Silver Eagle on 07/21/2023 at 10:00 am.

 

[Tony in SD]

Sound like your clutch failed

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 19:26:46 07/20/23) 8N 1951 has 2speed hi-lo with reverse,1st-2nd-3rd gears.....I was mowing when everything but the motor QUIT.........PTO stopped.......HYDRAULICS stopped.....all GEARS stopped working at the same time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance and a special thanks to Chris Pratt for all his help signing on.

sherman (hi-lo) shifted into neutral?

 

[HCooke]

First thing I would check.

 

[Silver Eagle]

(quoted from post at 16:17:28 07/20/23) Sound like your clutch failed

So by the clutch failing you believe it would make everything stop working including the and stop in the middle of the field as it did so I could replace the clutch and pressure plate and possibly fix all three problems. Wow that would be great. Is there any way of cross checking before I break it apart and get a clutch and pressure plate

 

[Silver Eagle]

. The high low shifter works just like the gearshift. It moves back-and-forth as a gear shifter does also without pushing the clutch down and with the motor running with no effect whatsoever if that s any help. Thanks for looking.

 

[Dean]

Yes. If the clutch failed or the Sherman was shifted into neutral, everything but the engine would cease to function.

Check Sherman before splitting to change clutch.

Most Sherman equipped 8N tractors of early 50s vintage have combinations rather than 2 speed Shermans. Cast steel, dog leg shapped shifter equals combination. Three piece shifter with bent steel rod and
screw on aluminum ball equals OD only. If yours is a combination and you do/did not know this, or how to shift it, it is likely in neutral.

 

[Eman85]

You say the engine runs. With the engine running can you put it in gear when stepping on the clutch? Can you put it in gear without stepping on the clutch? Can you shift the hi-lo either way?

 

[Silver Eagle]

Yes i can shift all gears without the clutch with the tractor running

 

[Silver Eagle]

yes I do not need to push down clutch will go into any gear freely while tractor running

 

[Silver Eagle]

That sure sounds like the problem, I really don't know how to check that without a little more advice if not to much trouble. Thanks in advance

 

[HFJ]

classic view won't let me post the specific pic because it doesn't like the dashes in its URL, so scroll down for the shift pattern:
sherman combo

 

[lastcowboy32]

Please make sure, if you are testing with the engine running, do it at low RPMs, from the seat of the tractor and with nobody standing anywhere near the tractor.

On the odd chance that it could possibly be a linkage or shifting fork thing, which could resolve while you're fiddling with the levers and stuff, at which point, the machine might kick into gear.

 

[Silver Eagle]

. I uploaded a video I m not sure it uploaded honestly but I did I believe and can you run by me how I can resolve this problem I m going to look up what you said on the shift linkage now thanks

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 15:34:02 07/21/23) . I uploaded a video I m not sure it uploaded honestly but I did I believe and can you run by me how I can resolve this problem I m going to look up what you said on the shift linkage now thanks

yes, check out the shift diagram. hopefully this is all it is. your video did not post that i can see.

 

[lastcowboy32]

My comment about the "shift linkage" was about safe testing. I wasn't commenting to make a diagnosis.


Right now, you can have the engine running, and you can shift gears without using the clutch.

If you have the engine running, and you start fiddling with shifting levers, especially the Sherman lever... without pressing the clutch...and the tractor jumps into gear, it's going to move.

That Sherman lever is right there in front of a back tire, which makes it tempting to fiddle with from the ground, meaning you'll get run over, if the tractor goes into gear.

So... my advice is to fiddle with the shifting levers from the seat, and use the clutch as you normally would. That way, you test by letting out the clutch after moving a shifting lever; which controls how the tractor goes into gear.

The way you describe what happened...everything just stopped all at once with no warning... is kind of odd to be a bad clutch. Clutch plates themselves and their mating to the flywheel usually slip a little and gradually get worse over time.

For it to just go "poof"? All at once? Odd...

So listen to the advice provided by others that's telling you to check your Sherman shifter, to make sure your Sherman transmission isn't in neutral.

If you have a Sherman transmission...EVERYTHING in the back of the tractor is powered through it...

The regular transmission
The PTO
The hydraulic pump

All of it.

Other things that could go all at once with no warning would be linkages... like a linkage from clutch pedal to throwout bearing, or the linkage between your Sherman shifting lever and the shifting fork in the Sherman or the input shaft to the Sherman tranny itself.

among other oddball things that you can find on a very very old tractor

 

[lastcowboy32]

Full disclaimer... I don't know if I've ever gotten my old N to shift into any gear from a standstill without grinding, even with the clutch.

So... to have one "jump" into gear while you're fiddling with shifting levers, without the clutch, without warning you by grinding first???... really rare. But I wouldn't bet your life on it.

They hadn't invented synchro-mesh gears back then

 

[wore out]

''is kind of odd to be a bad clutch''

A ''bad'' clutch/sudden clutch failure is NOT at all odd.

It's not at all uncommon for worn pressure plate splines to suddenly completely fail/strip or for the clutch hub to tear loose from the rest of the lined plate.

NOT saying for SURE that this is the issue here, but certainly on the ''short list'' of what may be wrong.

 

[Silver Eagle]

I have shifted it before just 2 speed believe lo is forward can't remember for sure you can feel it going in and out of gears without clutch and with motor RUNNING...sounds crazy I know

 

[Silver Eagle]

I have shifted it before just 2 speed believe lo is forward can't remember for sure you can feel it going in and out of gears without clutch and with motor RUNNING..