8N Starter

[C.I.]

I have read many post and done many things hoping to figure out the problem so I did not have to bring up "starter topics" you have discussed many times. But...

An 8N, 1950 side mount 6 volt. Starting to put her back together after a mid level reconditioning which included new battery, new cables (1/0), new wiring (i did), new nuts, sanding all post, new gauges, added lights, radiator removal and cleaning and much more. Plus new paint.

With new bat and cables, thinking hit the starter button and see her crank. Nothing. Tried many things to locate problem. Recheck cables and wires. Took off bat cables and @solenoid numerous times just to be sure.

With volt meter, checked battery side cable and post on solenoid. 6.4 volts. Checked the buss bar on the starter side with starter button depress. 6.4 volts. Checked wire terminal on the starter button. 6.4 volts. Still no crank.

THinking I may have a ground issue. Pulled starter. Sanded end of starter and engine block, sanded starter bolts to assure ground. Nothing. Brushes looked very good. Put back together and re-installed. Nothing.

Now I can say on several occasions, when pushing the starter button, I would hear a single click. Then nothing. Last week after re-install, a friend came by and we did something that did get her to start cranking. He took a standard 14ga wire and connected it to either the + or - on the battery and the other to the buss bar bolt going into the starter. But I let off of the button just after a few cranks. From then, nothing. But I do not know for sure what we connected where. But he was thinking its a ground problem (or battery even if its showing 6.4 volts and new). I did have ground problems when installing the new lights. Taking your advise, I just ran ground wires from the lights to the chassis ground at the battery. Now they work fine.

From what I see by the volt meter, I am thinking the solenoid is working. Starter side bar is hot when starter button pushed. I have bypassed the solenoid with the battery cable direct to the starter side bar. Nothing.

Does this sound like a starter issue or ground issue? Have never had a problem starting in the past. Any advise would be appreciated.
Today, I did loosen the starter bolts and shook it around a bit. Nothing. I did remove a nut which had been lodged between the starter case and the block. I noticed it when painting but could not get it out. When removing the starter, I did go ahead and remove it. And it was glued in place. Could this have been the original ground? New paint, no ground?? Sounds a bit wild but I am looking for anything to keep from taking out that starter again. Apologize for this long post but figure the more info the better.

Chet

 

[Anonymous-0]

Believe I would be inclined to by-pass everything in the starting system and simply check-out the starter "in place" by attaching a jumper cable directly from the battery NEG. post to the post on the starter. While leaving the POS. wire attached to the battery and the grounding bolt, the starter should spin. It is possible that when the starter was apart, the wire to the brushes may have broken. Or the heavy copper starter post bolt broke in side the starter.

Let us know how you make out.

John,Pa

 

[BillM (OH)]

You might try jumping it with 12 V and see if that'll wake up the starter. Make sure it's OUT OF GEAR, and jumper to the starter post with the other cable grounded to the frame - (I use the foot plate). If no go, then there's likely an open circuit somewhere in the starter as John sez.

 

[36 Coupe]

Lose the 14 ga wire, you will get a bad burn from it.Take the starter off and have it tested at an auto parts store.You dont have the know how to be testing it.

 

[C.I.]

Tried the jumper straight to the starter. Nothing. Loosed bolts, shook, tapped and retightened several times. Nothing. Next to pull and take it in for a test. Get it into hands who are in the know. Thanks for the advise..

Chet

 

[C.I.]

Up-Date
I pulled the starter and took to a shop that repairs starters. Clamped it into his shop vise, put the power to her and spinned like a top. He noted a hairline crack in the interior housing where the starter drive comes through (honeycomb area). He said this should not be a problem anytime soon but could replace if needed. Then he spinned it so the drive was out and said it would be easier to install.

Pulled the new battery and had it checked (Napa). Tested fine. So now I am thinking its in the ground. I sanded the starter plate, the block and the screws earlier. I did see in a thread one should also sand the end plate and the starter case. Have not done that as of yet. Any other tricks in getting a better ground? I will sand more on the postive ground area on the frame. Thanks

Chet

 

[NytOwl]

I am following along carefully because I just had the same problem with my 12v. I am starting at the beginning so keep us posted.

 

[36 Coupe]

I think you could insulate the starter to block junction and the starter would still crank,The voltage flows down the mounting screws to the front plate.You have to look at the solenoid snd the switch now.I have found many bad switches over the years.Make sure the transmission is in neutral.Connect a booster battery directly to the starter post.Make your last connection to the tractors frame.NEVER make sparks near a battery.If the starter cranks leave the starter alone.Come back on the forum and I will tell you how to test the solenoid and switch.

 

[36 Coupe]

Connecting to the starter post last can ruin the threads.Make the last connection to the tractor frame.

 

[C.I.]

Up-Date

We have crank! Before re-installing the starter (again), sanded the long starter bolts, the heads and the inside of the holes. Sanded the inner part of the wrap around cover of the brushes, sanded the steel (back side of the dash) where the battery cable connects.

Then the suprise. When connecting the last battery cable, she started to crank (without pushing the starter button). I always work on her in neutral but its good ya all always say to have these in neutral before working on them. From working on this for weeks and no cranking to having her start when you think she won't, it was a suprise and if in gear could have been a real problem.

Looks to have been a ground issue. And if I had to guess, it may just have been a poor ground from the battery cable to the block. Not sure with all the sanding done but that's my thoughts. Did a check determined the solenoid needed replaced. Did that, hooked her all back up a only cranked when I pushed the button... Now I can continue to put her back together. And re-touch all of the paint I have nicked and chipped.

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I am sure there will be a few more questions as we get her up and running. It's a great day...Putting in the starter only took seconds this time around. You just need to remember exactly how you pulled it out.

Chet