After 2 1/2 years without one - finally got a torch

[rockyridgefarm]

No, not the phone - I know you were all thinking I got a Blackberry...

I went out and bought a new torch set. Set me back $300, plus $150 5 year large oxygen tank lease ($21 per fill). I had a cart I bought for $25 somewhere along the line.

I only ever used an acetylene torch. The shop I leased the Oxygen tank from is a very good welding shop. He told me acetylene was a waste of money and I should go propane. All his torches are propane, the scrapyard next door runs propane, as does the other welding shop and the other scrapyard in town. So I went out and bought a propane tip and am using my gas grill's tank until I can nail down a good heavy duty skinny propane tank. I went cutting today and it definitely is different to what I'm used to. Not bad, just different.

So here's the question - Did I make the right decision?

 

[MarkB_MI]

That depends entirely on what you intend to do. If you want to gas weld, you can't do that with propane. But if all you expect to do is heat and/or cut, then propane is the way to go.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Just cutting and heating.

 

[JD Seller]

You can just cut and heat plus you use more oxygen with propane. I personally do not like a torch that is propane run. The flame is cooler and it takes longer to get started to cut. If you are trying to peal a bearing of a shaft many times the propane heats it slower and it is harder to do and not nick the shaft.

I use a torch a fair amount ans I may use 3-4 tanks a year. The saving is not that great when you add in the extra oxygen.

 

[JML755]

I have both. Agree w/ JDSeller, though. (ps, poll should have had a "both" category)

 

[Anonymous-0]

This is not correct. I have been brazing with propane torches all my life. It was easier using propane for our torches on the farm because we were running propane in our trucks. If you have the right size tip you can start cutting just as quick. Propane is cheaper and the oxygen use is dependent on the user and his skill level; knowing when to blow and what tip to use according to what you are doing.

 

[dr sportster]

The reason the scrapyards are using the propane is because they are cutting up items and not welding anything more than likely.It depends why and how you want to use your torch.There is also mapp gas good for cutting.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Brazing is not gas welding.

 

[Loosehandle]

I think that was a good decision, you dont have to pay lease
for acetylene cyl either.
Now that I have a plasma cutter about all I use a torch for if
heating stuff trying to get it appart.

 

[Anonymous-0]

You could have fooled me. You are using gas and you're welding two parts together. Hmmmm. Looks like gas welding to me.

 

[dr sportster]

Probably never should have opened my keyboard [mouth] on this since I have only used acetylene. I googled this subject and from what I've read so far propane is good for heating,cutting ,brazing and aluminum welding . Flame adjustments and tip distance from workpiece are different. On most forums it [propane] is not good for welding steel. It actually has more BTUs/cubic foot than acet but the acetylene flame is hotter. Every forum I went to did say the oxygen consumsion is greater for propane.The interest lies in the cost savings . Google is your friend .

 

[dr sportster]

The definition of a weld is [something like] both pieces reach the molten stage and when the joint is completed the metal is as one. Brazing is not welding. In some joints such as closly fitted bicycles brazing makes a superior joint . It is still two separate pieces joined by brass but never reaching the molten state.Once a weld is completed the two parts joined ,having both reached the molten, state are considered one part. Not rying to shoot you down but I went to Hobart school courtesy of USMC.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

No, actually you're brazing two pieces of metal together. To weld them, you would have to be able to get the metal hot enough that the base metal melted and flowed together so that the two became one piece of metal. If you think that welding means joining, then yes, both processes join metal. But you could join two pieces of metal by gluing them together, and you'd have a hard time persuading anyone that gluing is the same as welding.

Stan

 

[dr sportster]

Stan , What about about J-B weld.

 

[Welding man]

Been using acetelene for 40 years, see no reason to change now. Have tried propane and MAPP both,didn't like either one. Like others have said,they really increase the oxygen consumption too, almost 2 to 1. Propane deteriorates Acet hoses,takes different hoses, and it takes different tips. It would cost me a fortune to change over. I have six sets.

 

[sflem849]

(quoted from post at 06:03:11 04/04/13) You can just cut and heat plus you use more oxygen with propane. I personally do not like a torch that is propane run. The flame is cooler and it takes longer to get started to cut. If you are trying to peal a bearing of a shaft many times the propane heats it slower and it is harder to do and not nick the shaft.

I use a torch a fair amount ans I may use 3-4 tanks a year. The saving is not that great when you add in the extra oxygen.

The "heat" of the fire is not even 10% different. That doesn't mean they operate the same way...

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Well, doctor, I think Abraham Lincoln put it best when he said, "You can fool all of the people some of the time about the difference between welding and brazing, and you can fool some of the people all of the time about the difference between welding and brazing, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time about the difference between welding and brazing---and that goes for J-B Weld, too." I think it was from his address at the ceremony of the opening of the first Lincoln Electric plant in Gettysburg, PA. I saw the original Matthew Harrison Brady You Tube of it.

Stan

 

[Keith Molden]

I believe if you check, brazing is more properly defined as a bonding process. In welding you are heating both pieces of metal and flowing it together. Not so with brazing. Just my thoughts, you can check for yourself, Keith

 

[moresmoke]

The bearing thing is why scrap yards like the propane. If you lay 2 pieces of steel one on top of the other, propane will cut through it, acetylene will just make a mess. 90% of what I use a torch on is cutting bearings, acetylene only for me.

 

[FarmerZeb]

I'm running a oxy-propane for cutting and heating and it suits me fine for that. I have an MC tank of acetylene in case I need it but mostly use the propane. I don't have to worry about the propane the way I would the acetylene withdrawal rate for cutting or heating.

 

[Paul in MN]

The "right" decision depends on what you want to do with your torch set. The propane is easily available, quite cheap compared to acetylene, safer to transport, and has no tank rental charges. It is no good for welding steel, but is good for brazing light steel. Others have explained its cutting and heating characteristics. It has a relatively clean burn compared to lighting up acetylene.

I have used it in my farm shop since 1968, and have been satisfied with what it will do for me. Both of my son's shops are using propane/oxy as well. I am not bothered by the likelyhood of it requiring more oxygen. Probably more oxygen is wasted by having the regulator pressures set too high and having the torch adjusted to have too much gas flow. When I adjust the preheat flame on my cutting torch, I listen for a particular sound. If it is "roaring" you probably have too much propane. The sound I am listening for is a more settled down steady burn. The inner flame of propane is cooler than acetylene, but the outer flame is hotter, so you want to hold the torch back a bit from the inner flame touching your work piece. It takes a bit of practice.

I have heard the cautions about the hoses not liking propane, but my original Smith torch set (1968) still has its original twin hose, but it is getting close to needing replacement. I wouldn't complain about "the shortened hose life". But maybe there is a better hose now available, and I'll be checking that out in the near future.

Someone said that propane deteriorates with time. I have not found that to be true, but have never used 20 year old propane. I use 1/2 to 1 20# tanks per year at my shop. It lasts quite a while.

Note that the tank pressure on propane varies with the temperature it is stored at. If you see only 50 psi, this is common on a cold Minnesota winter day. If it is a hot summer day, the tank pressure may be 120 - 130 psi. But your regulator adjusts for this. You can not tell how full the tank is by reading the tank pressure.

Enjoy your new torch set!!

Paul in MN

 

[kutzy23]

Both are good gases if they are used for what they are intended for. Acetylene is great for fine tune cutting and welding and is easier to light out in the wind. Propane on the other hand is good for when your hogging cutting and blow back is a problem. It takes a little experience to properly set a propane torch but when done correctly they cut almost as fast as acetylene. When propane is used for heating it works wonderful! No popping or rosebud getting hot. You can heat all day and not have a problem. You do use more oxygen with propane but its not terrible. I find that most people that dislike propane are not very experienced on how to use it properly. Both are great gases. I have both. Acetylene is good for a hobbyist or a first torch. But if you like to add a second torch your operation propane is a good choice.

 

[Hobo,NC]

99.9 % of the time propane if needed I hook up the acetylene for delicate brazing... A wire welder eliminated 90% of what I use to braze...

 

[torch guy]

I"m just gonna keep my mouth shut on this one. Lol

 

[Anonymous-0]

Brazing is not a fusion process and the base metal is not melted. You are just opening the pores in the metal to bond to the brass, similar to soldering as it is not a fusion process either.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Not everything on Google is accurate though. You need a neutral flame for fusion welding and only acetylene has a neutral flame. Propane has more BTU's in the outer flame but less in the inner flame.

 

[Ken Macfarlane]

I went propane 15+ years ago and rarely regret it.
+never run out of fuel gas as the bbq is right there to rob.
+no 100$/year lease and 35$ per fill charges
+I can lay my tank down on its side, but don't really need to as its so short.
+Preheats really well, I never even use my rosebud just the cutting head

Now the bad
-longer preheat to pierce unless you nick the metal or have some edge or sharp
feature to start at. Once cutting I find no difference.
-Expensive tips that are hard to clean
-no welding but I had a mig first anyways
-Had to buy good quality hose at the start for about 10$ extra.
-Big preheat flames set ever more undercoating on fire when working on cars.