B Farmall running problems

[flatheadvff]

I have a B Farmall I'm working on for a customer/friend. Was going to be a simple job (how hard can one of the simplest pieces of equipment ever be?). It is converted to 12v with a Delco internal regulated alternator. Complaint was...starter would spin motor but not through the switch, and would not start. Tractor was dropped off at family farm as customer didn't know where my house is. When I got to farm, I walked out and started tractor. Seemed to run fine but the alternator wasn't wired in and starter was wired though push button switch not through battery cable. Really surprised that it cranked that way without melting some switches or wiring. Trailered it to my house, as much more convenient. Corrected the wiring for starter, so ignition switch and starter button worked as should. Checked ignition and does have inline resistor to coil. Tractor still ran sufficient, so wired in alternator and ammeter along with charge light. First indication of strange is that alternator charged and regulated voltage, but idiot light didn't function. Also tractor has continued to run worse. First noticed it black smoking, running rich. Removed and tore down carb. It was actually clean but had a white powdery coating (good ole ethanol), so ran it though the ultrasonic cleaner. Reinstalled and had trouble getting it to adjust out. Oh, air cleaner had water in it so it was cleaned while carb was off. Tractor would start right up then have trouble staying running. Also battery would drain overnight. Looked at pigtail I had bought for alternator and sure enough it had the red and white wires switched. Corrected that and alternator no longer charged. New diode trio and rectifier bridge and alternator charges, regulates, and idiot light and ammeter function properly... whaa laa. Go to test drive and every time I try to let out on the clutch blah, like I turn the key off. Try pulling the trottle linkage while sitting to rev engine, same results. Checked points function, check spark, finally think of timing. Pull #1 plug turn over till pressure pushes finger off plug threads, crawl under tractor can find no mark. clean all the dirt and mud dobber nest out of bell housing, clean flywheel, use wire to turn piston to tdc, remover lower bell housing cover, and clean it, paint mark timing marks. Start engine and timing is fairly far off. Adjust ting to tdc at low idle, then rev motor, if you can call it that at the low rpm these run at haha, and mechanical advance is functioning. Tractor now runs much smoother and seems to have more power. Go to test drive and everytime I let out on the clutch bluh, like I turned the key off. Put sparktester inline to #1 plug, and hooked test light to negative side of coil. I have flash and spark. Test drive, have to really be careful taking off but can actually drive it. Starts to run good then blubbers and recatches and blubbers again over and over, almost like it's running low on fuel. Watching test lights while doing this, I never seem to lose pulse or spark. So Fuel problem...not. Go through everything again, no problem with fuel. Finally decide plugs had fuel fowled, so put new plugs in. Started right up seemed to run fine. Started on test drive thought woo hoo, 4 blocks from house bluh, like I turned off the key. Called wife, towed it home. Now I have internittent spark but good pulse, sooo Bad coil...not. new coil same results. Pulled distributor, new points, condensor, another set of plugs, and another coil. Same thing, good pulse no fire from coil. This still tells me bad coil. I'm really out of ideas and time. Have about $200 in parts and $800 in time (no way I can charge the customer all that), and now a tractor that won't even start. My only idea at this point is china junk strikes again, and I have a coil that is worse than the original. My plan is to get another coil, and plug set and try again tomorrow after work. If that doesn't work, I'm about ready to eat my accumulated expense and call it quits before I waste another valuable weekend and more $ in parts, give the tractor back and move to something productive as I'm now 4 weekends behind getting ready for my own hay crop which is ready to cut early. Anyone have any ideas about what I'm missing? As far as I can tell, I've really tested every thing. Fuel, spark, spark at the right time, compression (oh, I did run a compression test and had a surprising even 160lbs) and air and a gas motor should run, Or at least that's what I was taught, and the way it's worked for me for 45 years or more. Thanks for any repies LJS

 

[rustred]

I have a B Farmall I'm working on for a customer/friend. Was going to be a simple job (how hard can one of the simplest pieces of equipment ever be?). It is converted to 12v with a Delco internal regulated alternator. Complaint was...starter would spin motor but not through the switch, and would not start. Tractor was dropped off at family farm as customer didn't know where my house is. When I got to farm, I walked out and started tractor. Seemed to run fine but the alternator wasn't wired in and starter was wired though push button switch not through battery cable. Really surprised that it cranked that way without melting some switches or wiring. Trailered it to my house, as much more convenient. Corrected the wiring for starter, so ignition switch and starter button worked as should. Checked ignition and does have inline resistor to coil. Tractor still ran sufficient, so wired in alternator and ammeter along with charge light. First indication of strange is that alternator charged and regulated voltage, but idiot light didn't function. Also tractor has continued to run worse. First noticed it black smoking, running rich. Removed and tore down carb. It was actually clean but had a white powdery coating (good ole ethanol), so ran it though the ultrasonic cleaner. Reinstalled and had trouble getting it to adjust out. Oh, air cleaner had water in it so it was cleaned while carb was off. Tractor would start right up then have trouble staying running. Also battery would drain overnight. Looked at pigtail I had bought for alternator and sure enough it had the red and white wires switched. Corrected that and alternator no longer charged. New diode trio and rectifier bridge and alternator charges, regulates, and idiot light and ammeter function properly... whaa laa. Go to test drive and every time I try to let out on the clutch blah, like I turn the key off. Try pulling the trottle linkage while sitting to rev engine, same results. Checked points function, check spark, finally think of timing. Pull #1 plug turn over till pressure pushes finger off plug threads, crawl under tractor can find no mark. clean all the dirt and mud dobber nest out of bell housing, clean flywheel, use wire to turn piston to tdc, remover lower bell housing cover, and clean it, paint mark timing marks. Start engine and timing is fairly far off. Adjust ting to tdc at low idle, then rev motor, if you can call it that at the low rpm these run at haha, and mechanical advance is functioning. Tractor now runs much smoother and seems to have more power. Go to test drive and everytime I let out on the clutch bluh, like I turned the key off. Put sparktester inline to #1 plug, and hooked test light to negative side of coil. I have flash and spark. Test drive, have to really be careful taking off but can actually drive it. Starts to run good then blubbers and recatches and blubbers again over and over, almost like it's running low on fuel. Watching test lights while doing this, I never seem to lose pulse or spark. So Fuel problem...not. Go through everything again, no problem with fuel. Finally decide plugs had fuel fowled, so put new plugs in. Started right up seemed to run fine. Started on test drive thought woo hoo, 4 blocks from house bluh, like I turned off the key. Called wife, towed it home. Now I have internittent spark but good pulse, sooo Bad coil...not. new coil same results. Pulled distributor, new points, condensor, another set of plugs, and another coil. Same thing, good pulse no fire from coil. This still tells me bad coil. I'm really out of ideas and time. Have about $200 in parts and $800 in time (no way I can charge the customer all that), and now a tractor that won't even start. My only idea at this point is china junk strikes again, and I have a coil that is worse than the original. My plan is to get another coil, and plug set and try again tomorrow after work. If that doesn't work, I'm about ready to eat my accumulated expense and call it quits before I waste another valuable weekend and more $ in parts, give the tractor back and move to something productive as I'm now 4 weekends behind getting ready for my own hay crop which is ready to cut early. Anyone have any ideas about what I'm missing? As far as I can tell, I've really tested every thing. Fuel, spark, spark at the right time, compression (oh, I did run a compression test and had a surprising even 160lbs) and air and a gas motor should run, Or at least that's what I was taught, and the way it's worked for me for 45 years or more. Thanks for any repies LJS

That is the reason engines have spec’s to go by. It appears everyone in this forum always tells the same old story about the tractor stalling, or not wanting to run. Nobody ever gives info as to what they have done spec wise. Maybe the carb main jet needs to be opened up. Say where it’s set at. Same with timing and points settings. Even a valve adjustment is part of a major tune up. Confirm it’s getting a full flow of gas to the carb. I have no eyes or ears on it. You don’t need a bunch of new parts thrown at it to make it run good. Just need to know what to do. Plus feel the coil when it stops. If it’s hot there is your problem. Check for spark when it stops.

 

[grandpa Love]

This is exactly why we cut out all the old wiring and start over one every single tractor we buy. You can't look at wiring or switches and tell if they are good. I would start over. All new wires .Adjust the valves and timing. Double check if the plug wires are in the correct spots. ( Copper core) Is your float floating? Is the gas flowing? It's crazy that " Chinese parts" always get the blame . New parts won't always fix the issue, but those parts always get the blame . We have used coils, condensers, points,plug wires and carburetors from Napa, tractor supply, rural king and Amazon........ never had a " bad one straight out of the box" and never had one fail yet.

 

[grandpa Love]

Is you manifold gasket leaking? Have you removed the governor,cleaned , replaced any broken/worn parts? Do the governor arms move freely? Is the linkage adjusted correctly? I'm thinking you have several different issues. 1, Tractor dies when you let out the clutch. 2, tractor dies four blocks away. 3, battery drains. 4, gas flow(?). Maybe there is a leaf or other trash in the gas tank that blocks the flow?

 

[grandpa Love]

That is the reason engines have spec’s to go by. It appears everyone in this forum always tells the same old story about the tractor stalling, or not wanting to run. Nobody ever gives info as to what they have done spec wise. Maybe the carb main jet needs to be opened up. Say where it’s set at. Same with timing and points settings. Even a valve adjustment is part of a major tune up. Confirm it’s getting a full flow of gas to the carb. I have no eyes or ears on it. You don’t need a bunch of new parts thrown at it to make it run good. Just need to know what to do. Plus feel the coil when it stops. If it’s hot there is your problem. Check for spark when it stops.

Hey Rust, wanna meet up at this guy's house and tinker with the B? I bet we can knock it out very easily in person

 

[used red MN]

Grandpa Love mentions this, where are you checking gas flow? If not out of the carb bowl drain plug you are likely missing the fact that there is a screen in the carb fuel inlet fitting. See link below

Carburetor Elbow and Strainer​

Editing to add: Not sure what you deal with in terms of a normal item you repair sounds like you run some type of mechanic business. You probably also did not get the carb clean enough in terms of ALL THE SMALL PASSAGES. Your ultrasonic cleaner may be the real deal for somethings but it likely didn’t do the job here on the lime residue. You need to physically poke a wire or torch tip cleaner through EVERY passage, followed with a shot of carb cleaner and a blast of compressed air. And if you can’t see straight through it you to see it is open you need to repeat those three steps on all passages 2 more times just to make double dog sure it is open.

 

[flatheadvff]

Ok, yes have been a mechanic all my life. Retired from pro mechanic about 8 years ago and got my government job so I had some kind of retirement plan besides 6'. Timing as stated, tdc at low idle and flywheel not graduated, and don't have my fancier timing light to adjust time of flash, so don't know how far mechanical advance advances timing, but can see that it works. Yes, I cleaned and flowed all the passages in the carburetor when cleaning carburetor (didn't mention as in my opinion that's just a given when cleaning a carb), and so glad I found out about ultrasonic cleaners as that is probably the best carb cleaner I've ever used. Points at .020, plug gap at .025. Again didn't mention as when installing one looks up the specs and that's what is used, another given, so didn't think to mention. Carburetor adjustment, I mentioned having hard time adjusting out, forgot to mention that after adjusting the timing, it ran out quite well,until whatever is breaking down makes it run erratic. Started with upper idle screw 1.5 turns out and lower main screw 2.5 out. Tweaked adjustments to smoothest, so can't tell exact turns without counting turns back to closed. Also as stated, I wired in the alternator, and repaired the wiring so starter solenoid, ignition switch and push button switch worked correctly. That's a sum total of about 8 wires. So no I didn't go find used wire to wire alternator. Ignition and stater solenoid wire is 2 wires, I think that's simple enough to trace. I didn't mention that I also have a wire from starter solenoid to coil side of resistor to bypass resistor for hotter spark while cranking to start. I am an expierience mechanic, old enough that electronic ignition was something new when I was young. That is why this &=&&=<&÷%&!* thing is frustrating the ÷^#&$>&÷ out of me. Ihave been testing as I go and didn't throw parts at it, points and condensors can do strange things, and between my dad in his eightys and I, in recent years we've had to go through up to 6 sets of points and condensor to finally get a set to run right and last more then a week. Again any replies are greatly appreciated, hope I've answered any questions you had, to give a clearer picture. I ordered another 2 sets of plugs, and another coil. That's my next step this evening, as I still have good pulse from distributor but lose spark, which it wasn't doing at first but has developed. Thanks again LJS

 

[Janicholson]

Ok, yes have been a mechanic all my life. Retired from pro mechanic about 8 years ago and got my government job so I had some kind of retirement plan besides 6'. Timing as stated, tdc at low idle and flywheel not graduated, and don't have my fancier timing light to adjust time of flash, so don't know how far mechanical advance advances timing, but can see that it works. Yes, I cleaned and flowed all the passages in the carburetor when cleaning carburetor (didn't mention as in my opinion that's just a given when cleaning a carb), and so glad I found out about ultrasonic cleaners as that is probably the best carb cleaner I've ever used. Points at .020, plug gap at .025. Again didn't mention as when installing one looks up the specs and that's what is used, another given, so didn't think to mention. Carburetor adjustment, I mentioned having hard time adjusting out, forgot to mention that after adjusting the timing, it ran out quite well,until whatever is breaking down makes it run erratic. Started with upper idle screw 1.5 turns out and lower main screw 2.5 out. Tweaked adjustments to smoothest, so can't tell exact turns without counting turns back to closed. Also as stated, I wired in the alternator, and repaired the wiring so starter solenoid, ignition switch and push button switch worked correctly. That's a sum total of about 8 wires. So no I didn't go find used wire to wire alternator. Ignition and stater solenoid wire is 2 wires, I think that's simple enough to trace. I didn't mention that I also have a wire from starter solenoid to coil side of resistor to bypass resistor for hotter spark while cranking to start. I am an expierience mechanic, old enough that electronic ignition was something new when I was young. That is why this &=&&=<&÷%&!* thing is frustrating the ÷^#&$>&÷ out of me. Ihave been testing as I go and didn't throw parts at it, points and condensors can do strange things, and between my dad in his eightys and I, in recent years we've had to go through up to 6 sets of points and condensor to finally get a set to run right and last more then a week. Again any replies are greatly appreciated, hope I've answered any questions you had, to give a clearer picture. I ordered another 2 sets of plugs, and another coil. That's my next step this evening, as I still have good pulse from distributor but lose spark, which it wasn't doing at first but has developed. Thanks again LJS

Voltage testing the ignition at the coil input as it is misbehaving would be my first. If it demands fuel and cannot get it, the issue may be actual delivery to the carb. Pull the drain and make sure it will flow a pint in a minute. (whole minute) Wiring to the coil could be compromised. Jim

 

[used red MN]

Yes, I cleaned and flowed all the passages in the carburetor when cleaning carburetor

No mention of being aware of the strainer screen in the carb inlet fitting?? Checking flow out of the carb bowl drain. Gas has to get inside the carb bowl for the carb circuits to be able to use it. You need to in gas tank at the bottom with a good flashlight. How much crud is in there that can block the fuel from flowing out, rust and crud is a common problem in these old tractors. Lastly, I don’t think it would run as good as you say without it, but is the Venturi in the carb. Number 37 in the link. That is a Marvel/Schebler carb they also had Zenith carbs, both had them.
Messicks Farmall B parts catalog
I know I am putting all my focus on the fuel side but that sounds to me like it is your problem. I can tell you how to monitor the fuel level in the carb bowl as you run the tractor. Let me know if you want info on that.

 

[used red MN]

Voltage testing the ignition at the coil input as it is misbehaving would be my first. If it demands fuel and cannot get it, the issue may be actual delivery to the carb. Pull the drain and make sure it will flow a pint in a minute. (whole minute) Wiring to the coil could be compromised. Jim

In my opinion a pint a minute is a lot of gas for that little tractor. A pint in 2 and a half to 3 minutes is good for that one. But that pint does not include the initial dump of the fuel out carb bowl.

 

[flatheadvff]

The fuel bowl is clean. Forgot about working with fuel line. Had mismatched fitting sizes, so corrected that. Does have inline fuel filter, and I wondered about that. I pulled the main jet assembly out of the fuel bowl to drain carb. and watched fuel flow. Used a clesn cat food can to catch it. Fuel was clean and flow looked sufficient. I didn't actually time it. Rechecked float setting. Originally it was black smoking, I think the float was set too high. After cleaning carb, I no longer get black smoke. I changed the plugs, I think they gas fouled from when float was too high. The fuel level while running is something I would like to monitor. Makes me think of performance holleys. One of the things that makes them easy is the plug in side of fuel bowl for just that.

 

[flatheadvff]

Oh, the venturi is in the carb.

 

[grandpa Love]

Oh, the venturi is in the carb.

Still don't see any mention of the manifold gaskets? Any wobble in the distributor shaft? And you have an alternator,so 12 volt? Why do you have a resistor? Just get a Napa coil 12 volt "no external resistor required".....takes the restistor ,and several connections,out of the equation. 12 volt IH distributor tune up part numbers are on my wall..... Napa.

 

[flatheadvff]

Forgot but had used carb cleaner to check for vacuum leaks on manifold and carb. I Always use external resistor coil. 1 can bypass for hot spark cold start. 2 have always had much less trouble with them. As far as I can remember any old tractor that's factory 12v distributor ignition came with external resistor. At least all our poppin Johnnys did, and our 404&560 IH. Shows in their wiring diagram. Internal came more into play with electronic ignition. Don't quote me on that, I may be wrong, but it would be the first time, haha. Had a packer at work, that was basically a 560 IH converted to a pnuematic packer. It always was a bugger to start the first time. I noticed it had internal resistor coil and replaced it, installed a resistor, then hooked bypass wire, that was already in factory harness, to ignition stud on starter solenoid. Packer always started good after that and used it quite a lot, till new commissioner came in and it wasn't shiny, new, and hadn't cost the county enough money. These have been good ideas, most I have already checked, but keep them coming, maybe we'll find the one idea I haven't checked yet. As it always goes it's that last thing you check. Of course that's because you quit checking things when it works. Hahaha. LJS

 

[Janicholson]

Forgot but had used carb cleaner to check for vacuum leaks on manifold and carb. I Always use external resistor coil. 1 can bypass for hot spark cold start. 2 have always had much less trouble with them. As far as I can remember any old tractor that's factory 12v distributor ignition came with external resistor. At least all our poppin Johnnys did, and our 404&560 IH. Shows in their wiring diagram. Internal came more into play with electronic ignition. Don't quote me on that, I may be wrong, but it would be the first time, haha. Had a packer at work, that was basically a 560 IH converted to a pnuematic packer. It always was a bugger to start the first time. I noticed it had internal resistor coil and replaced it, installed a resistor, then hooked bypass wire, that was already in factory harness, to ignition stud on starter solenoid. Packer always started good after that and used it quite a lot, till new commissioner came in and it wasn't shiny, new, and hadn't cost the county enough money. These have been good ideas, most I have already checked, but keep them coming, maybe we'll find the one idea I haven't checked yet. As it always goes it's that last thing you check. Of course that's because you quit checking things when it works. Hahaha. LJS

With respect, the 12v coils with no external resistor required do not have resistors inside! They are wound for 12v-to 15 volt operation. Like a 12v bulb instead of a 6v bulb. Jim

 

[used red MN]

The fuel level while running is something I would like to monitor. Makes me think of performance holleys. One of the things that makes them easy is the plug in side of fuel bowl for just that.

It’s really a simple thing to do. Just use a clear hose off a barb in the carb drain bowl and bend it up beside the carb. This link to a previous YT post shows some examples. Checking carb fuel level
I appreciate the complete run down story of everything, but now tell us how it is currently acting and running, try to keep it brief without any rabbit trails.

 

[560Dennis]

I have had trouble with my tractor with grounds . Control box .to differential . switch to control box. Is battery Box missing?
If it s been repainted look at distributor . Might not be the problem in this case but it good maintenance.
Did you say ,is positive or negative ground ?

 

[grandpa Love]

Well..... I give up. If I was there and could physically work on it I could figure it out in a few minutes. But it's nearly impossible on a forum . We bought a super c a few days ago, hadn't run in many years, sat dead in a field. We ( wife and I) cut off the old wiring, removed the old alternator, cleaned the carb ( wife said it's the worst mess she ever cleaned) adjusted the valves, changed all the fluids. New tune up parts. Checked timing. New wiring. New battery cables. Removed,cleaned ,freed up the governor. Pulled the starter rod and within a half second it was purring like a Farmall should. 11th Farmall we have bought like that this year, all now running perfectly.......lost count on how many over the last 5 years. We spent about 5 hours working on it before we tried to start it,but......it's was almost a 100% guarantee it was right that first attempt....... Please post what you end up finding on yours.

 

[grandpa Love]

With respect, the 12v coils with no external resistor required do not have resistors inside! They are wound for 12v-to 15 volt operation. Like a 12v bulb instead of a 6v bulb. Jim

All I know is we use them with no ceramic resistor,all our 12 volt farmalls fire up within a second. .......and we have 3 that are still 6 volt 2 have magnetos,1 has a distributor, they also fire right up. Personal opinion,it's all in the details. The tune up ,the adjustments. Too many folks swap to 12 volt , electronic ignition, new carb, and wonder why new parts didn't help. . Simple troubleshooting and tune up usually solves the problem.

 

[TedinNE]

A couple things I have run into over the years. Had an A that had set several years. Every thing checked ok new parts did no good. Would run just enought to keep it interesting. some one had put a rag in the intake manifold. H would start hard and not run. New points had the rubbing block on backwards. Just a thought.




















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