Case D hydraulic pump

[casecollectorsc]

got new gauge installed and made a new gasket .I drove it around up hill full throttle and new the temp gauge slowly(20 minute) went up to near 220 . I stopped and let it idle and slowly the temp went to 205. The new gasket seems to have eliminated the steam. It was a warm day which Im sure didnt help. Belts are good and tensioned ok. Not sure what I should do next. Water pump looks like a bear to change.

Drain the coolant and put 5 gallons of vinegar in the radiator plus water. Warm it up and drive it around. Slide a length of garden hose over the drain pipe and backflush with water. Usually helps quite a bit. Leave the vinegar solution in for awhile so it can work on the corrosion in the block and radiator. Warmer is better.

 

[Dr. CHIP]

The best test of a fan belt is to grab a fan blade (engine off!) and see if it slips. You should be almost able to turn the tractor over on compression. If it slips easily, (glazed pulley comes to mind) get a new belt. Also, at full RPMs, you should hear a buzz or whirr from the fan blades.
On a darker day or in the shop, maneuver a trouble light (or a bare bulb on the end of a cord) in back of the radiator, in by the fan blades. Then go around front and look for light. If you can't see light, the cores are plugged with chafe and dust and overheating is probable.
Remove the grill and try to blast it out with a water hose. Hot water helps. A pressure washer is fine but stay back a bit and hit the fins straight on or you will fold them flat and it will take ages to get them straightened back out so you can continue to clean the core.
Water pump failure is very rare. I was a truck mechanic for a major part of my life and I NEVER saw a "faulty" water pump cause overheating. Ive seen and changed my share of LEAKY water pumps, tho.
95% of overheating problems are plugged core or slipping fan belt. BTW, a tight belt doesn't mean it isn't slipping. Try the fan blade test.

Ok, thanks. Gonna switch to alternator also so maybe kill 2 birds while it's apart

 

[Mike Fitz]

Good on the repairs! Still more good advice has been given. I would still get it warmed up and use a thermometer to check the coolant against the new gauge. Are the radiator shutters all the way open?

 

[Dr. CHIP]

Good on the repairs! Still more good advice has been given. I would still get it warmed up and use a thermometer to check the coolant against the new gauge. Are the radiator shutters all the way open?

I dont have the shutters. Spent all afternoon trying to get grill off. 2 bottom bolts were a bear, but I finally won. Removed generator but I cant get fan belt off. I loosened those 3 bolts after soaking with Blaster and hammered on them till they moved to the end of those slotts. Belt loosened but I still cant get the belt off the pulleys .Im about ready to just cut the belt off and worry about getting new belt on when I get it. After dark I'll do the suggested light test. 2 questions: Should I use the strong cleaning vineger? And is there a particular alternator I should get or just get any one wire alternator with the regulator in it? Thanks again guys

 

[rustred]

I dont have the shutters. Spent all afternoon trying to get grill off. 2 bottom bolts were a bear, but I finally won. Removed generator but I cant get fan belt off. I loosened those 3 bolts after soaking with Blaster and hammered on them till they moved to the end of those slotts. Belt loosened but I still cant get the belt off the pulleys .Im about ready to just cut the belt off and worry about getting new belt on when I get it. After dark I'll do the suggested light test. 2 questions: Should I use the strong cleaning vineger? And is there a particular alternator I should get or just get any one wire alternator with the regulator in it? Thanks again guys

Yes the 10 percent stuff but it don’t do much anyhow. What’s really funny is old on tractor forum has been bragging to use vinegar for for years to clean rads. Now on his Oliver 88 he said he used it and it didn’t work. I said right off the bat vinegar don’t work. When the cores are plugged it rad removal time and get it hot tanked. And if trying the vinegar for your satisfaction you need 2-3 gallons of it at once. Then run it for hrs.

 

[casecollectorsc]

Yes the 10 percent stuff but it don’t do much anyhow. What’s really funny is old on tractor forum has been bragging to use vinegar for for years to clean rads. Now on his Oliver 88 he said he used it and it didn’t work. I said right off the bat vinegar don’t work. When the cores are plugged it rad removal time and get it hot tanked. And if trying the vinegar for your satisfaction you need 2-3 gallons of it at once. Then run it for hrs.

Vinegar is cheap...I fill the system full with it and run the tractor a day or more before flushing. Did it on my Dodge Cummins and ran two hundred miles down the interstate to get parts. After flushing the radiator looked new inside.

 

[Mike Fitz]

Vinegar should work, Ive never tried it, I've seen washing soda used with good results, it was even given use instructions in some old tractor manuals, over the counter flushes can work too, but for seriously plugged cores a trip to the radiator shop is the quickest and best way to get a good job done in my experience. As for the alternator there are many good choices depending on what your intended end result is, the Delco 10SI is a well proven choice, I have done several of these as three wire setups for low rpm charging, but it is my understanding that current one wire alternators will start charging at low rpm's now, the Hitachi alternators have a good reputation in a smaller package, we put one on my sons 300 and it works fine, the Delco will protrude from the hood some if that matters to you.

 

[Dr. CHIP]

Did the light test last night and could see the light in front good. I'll hose it out anyways now that its open. NAPA store had a remanufactured alt. that I didn't see a name on but that's what I'll use. Gonna replace antifreeze with vinegar next

 

[CasevsDeere]

I've got one doing the same thing, mine is a '53 which they started putting thermostats in. I put a new thermostat in it while I had the radiator off and its still getting hot so either the rad is stopped up or the new thermostat is defective.

I back flushed the radiator and was getting flow through it so I would think that it would flow enough to not heat at a fast idle in the driveway.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

The best test of a fan belt is to grab a fan blade (engine off!) and see if it slips. You should be almost able to turn the tractor over on compression. If it slips easily, (glazed pulley comes to mind) get a new belt. Also, at full RPMs, you should hear a buzz or whirr from the fan blades.
On a darker day or in the shop, maneuver a trouble light (or a bare bulb on the end of a cord) in back of the radiator, in by the fan blades. Then go around front and look for light. If you can't see light, the cores are plugged with chafe and dust and overheating is probable.
Remove the grill and try to blast it out with a water hose. Hot water helps. A pressure washer is fine but stay back a bit and hit the fins straight on or you will fold them flat and it will take ages to get them straightened back out so you can continue to clean the core.
Water pump failure is very rare. I was a truck mechanic for a major part of my life and I NEVER saw a "faulty" water pump cause overheating. Ive seen and changed my share of LEAKY water pumps, tho.
95% of overheating problems are plugged core or slipping fan belt. BTW, a tight belt doesn't mean it isn't slipping. Try the fan blade test.

I saw a faulty pump once in my time as a Cae CE mechanic, 821c wheelloader, you could only run it about 10 minutes and it would be hot, another tech went out on, determined Rad was plugged, pulled it and had it boiled out, reinstalled, same issue, said tech then decided the head gasket was leaking, pulled the head and had it gone through and reinstalled, same issue, they brought it to the shop this time saying the head must be cracked or the the liners had drooped, I got it this time, I did some checking and all was pointing to the proposed issue, I even took the belt off and spun the water pump and all seemed good, for some unknown reason I decided to pull the pump, pulled it off the block and the impeller was totally gone but for the flat disc of the it closest to the pulley! I backed flushed the block, never got more that a few little metal chunks out, put a new pump on and refilled, tested her out and all was good. My assumption is when the original tech pulled the rad the big chunks of the impeller came out and he didn't notice them, that unit ran 24/7 at coal fired power plant and never had another issue with overheating the remaining 5 years I worked at the dealer.

 

[Dr. CHIP]

I filled radiator with 30 percent vinegar and ran it couple hrs. When I drained it it looked like muddy water. Back flushed with hot water,drained it again and refilled with water. After I get it operational again I'm gonna drain it see how it looks and hopefully fill with anti freeze. It idled in the driveway and got up to about 180 and the cooking thermometer confirmed it. On the plus side when checking with the thermometer I noticed a lot of movement in the radiator, so I'm more optimistic about the pump. I'm working on alternator, so until I get that sorted out I won't be able to drive it. I hate to admit it but I still can't get the dang fan belt off, anyone have any suggestions? I know it ain't rocket science but it's kicking my butt. Thanks again guys. Your an amazing resource to have.

 

[CasevsDeere]

I filled radiator with 30 percent vinegar and ran it couple hrs. When I drained it it looked like muddy water. Back flushed with hot water,drained it again and refilled with water. After I get it operational again I'm gonna drain it see how it looks and hopefully fill with anti freeze. It idled in the driveway and got up to about 180 and the cooking thermometer confirmed it. On the plus side when checking with the thermometer I noticed a lot of movement in the radiator, so I'm more optimistic about the pump. I'm working on alternator, so until I get that sorted out I won't be able to drive it. I hate to admit it but I still can't get the dang fan belt off, anyone have any suggestions? I know it ain't rocket science but it's kicking my butt. Thanks again guys. Your an amazing resource to have.

You got lucky, the core popped on mine and started pouring antifreeze out. I tried taking a real thin strip of metal and breaking through the sludge in the top of the tubes.

The sludge broke up easy but once it did anti freeze was pouring out on 3/5 tubes that I opened up. I just drained it down and called John and ordered a new core. As long as the tanks will come apart it won’t be a bad deal

 

[Mike Fitz]

Good on both of you making progress! I don't remember doing anything special when I changed the fan belt on my DC but that was long ago, I did have the radiator off at the time so that may make it easier, it also seems to me that I had to take the fan off to install the alternator belt, but I'm not sure on that point any more.

 

[Dr. CHIP]

I was.hopeing I wouldn't have to pull the radiator but your comment on the alternator belt makes sense and getting to the fan bolts looks impossible without pulling the radiator. Pulling it would make a lot of things easier so I'm gonna bite the bullet and just do it.

 

[mEl]

If you have a helper to lift with you, you u can have the radiator on the floor in less than 3/4 hour unless you have trouble with the two side bolts, I just had the 39s off, don't forget to screw the radiator drain plug out first though.

 

[Dr. CHIP]

If you have a helper to lift with you, you u can have the radiator on the floor in less than 3/4 hour unless you have trouble with the two side bolts, I just had the 39s off, don't forget to screw the radiator drain plug out first though.

I don't have a helper but I got a cherrypicker. I tried to unbolt the fan.but there was no way with both my wrists fused. And if I could get them out I don't know how I would get them back in. So I'm back.to.taking radiator out. My big problem now is the 2.bottom bolts. They won't budge with an impact.or a breaker bar with a 2 foot pipe extension extension. My buddy suggested I cut the bolts to get radiator out and work on the bolt remains after. I'm a bit nervous about that approach. Any opinions or suggestions?

 

[rustred]

I don't have a helper but I got a cherrypicker. I tried to unbolt the fan.but there was no way with both my wrists fused. And if I could get them out I don't know how I would get them back in. So I'm back.to.taking radiator out. My big problem now is the 2.bottom bolts. They won't budge with an impact.or a breaker bar with a 2 foot pipe extension extension. My buddy suggested I cut the bolts to get radiator out and work on the bolt remains after. I'm a bit nervous about that approach. Any opinions or suggestions?

well if you gave it your best shot then cut the two 1/2 " bolts at the bottom. BUT make sure u leave at least one inch on each bolt so that u can use a pipe wrench on them after with some heat. remove the generator and undo the spigot at the block and the same at the head. then it will take enough to lift it so the bottom bolts clear the frame and out it comes. should be able to stick a bar inside the rad then hook a sling to that to lift it. you have to do it this way in order to lift the rad some, other wise with the bottom bolts out it will pretty much slide ahead and out.

 

[Mike Fitz]

As long as you are this far, a trip to the rad shop for a good cleaning seems like a good idea to me.

 

[mEl]

I have never done it but have heard of guys removing the water pump and high pressure flushing back along the sleeves, a rust /scale buildup around #4 sleeve causes piston scoring from no heat transfer. May be something to consider while the radiator is out.

 

[Dr. CHIP]

well boys, it was a tough fight but I won. Radiator is out and setting on the floor. Fan blades are gonna need a little tuning but otherwise everything came along ok. Except still got those cut off bolts to deal with, but for now Im just gonna wallow in my victory, besides its beer thirty. and yes Mike radiator shop is in the future. Thanks again guys for all your guidance .