Deere - How to Tell if Hours High and Other Stuff

[radara4077]

Looking at an older Deere to possibly buy. Proofmeter doesn't work. What are some tell-tale signs that a machine has some hours on her, vs. some things to look for that could show she's been taken care of?

For instance, lots of wear on the pedals can show high hours. Or a shoddy repaint can expose rust areas. Things like that.

Full disclosure: it's a John Deere 2750. One of the (dreaded?) Mannheim machines. I've heard the "horror stories" about the Mannheim Deeres. I consider myself a well-informed idiot, in that I don't really see myself in anything other than a 50 series Deere, meaning that it's either Mannheim or Waterloo, and Waterloo prices are a pipe dream, at best.

I have seen posts that mention something about pitting in the coolant side of the engine, for instance. How would I diagnose that? Also, the machine doesn't have hi-lo, so there's that avoided.

In any case, I sincerely appreciate the vast wealth of knowledge this Forum brings to bear, and so I humbly seek any insight into "what to look for" in buying a used machine with no working proofmeter, but also specifically for "what to look for" with the 50 series Mannheim Deeres.

Thanks to all for your help, past and present!

 

[markct]

If the proofmeter was working i would
give you the same advice. Look at how
it runs operates and appears. I don't
care if it has under 1000 hours or
over 25,000 if it's got problems it
has problems. I have seen high hour
tractors well cared for and low hour
tractors completely wore out. The hour
meter is so you know when to change
the oil not to be a complete record of
it's history

 

[centash]

Don't let the horror stories scare you. They are a darn good tractor, but like any
machine, they need to be properly maintained. You can get the engine oil analyzed
for metal wear and coolant contamination, the antifreeze tested for anti cavitation
levels and the hydraulic oil for brake material. Sloppy pivot point on the clutch
pedal means a lot of hours, say over 6 or7000, or a lot of loader work. Check the
date codes on both air filters, and see if the pre cleaner screen in the trans is
deposit free. Check front pump drive coupler for looseness (not good) .Engine
should start with little cranking and no smoke, and little smoke even under load.
If you can, get the front wheels off the ground to see if the wheel bearings are
good and the linkage is tight and the spindles are not loose. A worn seat
suspension indicates high hours. Test the brakes for sponginess and effectiveness,
and that all hydraulics function normally as does the pto engagement.
I have put about 25000 hours on 3 Mannhiem JD with very few problems, but I am
fussy about maintenance.
Good luck!
Ben

 

[JD Seller]

Well the first would be to drop the three point hitch before you start the tractor. Start the tractor at idle. Lift the three point ASAP. It should raise smoothly but not really fast. This is a simple test of the charge pump and main hydraulic pump. If either of them have much wrong then the three point lift will jump/chatter when lifting at idle with the front oil reservoir empty.

As for coolant issues and cavitation the Mannheim tractors are not much different than the Waterloo tractors. The Engines used in the Mannheim tractors are good motors. Smaller and less torque than the their Waterloo cousins but they are supposed to be smaller. So just the usual check the fluids before starting them for oil in the coolant system and water/milking stuff in the oil.

Drive it and see if the brakes are smooth or chattering and grinding. Check how the park brake holds/works.

Then for usage/wear. Look at the drawbar hole and the drawbar front pin/hole. The Drawbar may have been replaced, the front casting/hole would show wear if a lot of drawbar work had been done. Check the three point hitch for wear. Check the steering system for worn/sloppy steering components.

Here is my advice after doing theses things. IF the hitch chatters up when lifting at start up then walk away. The many possible hydraulic issues that can cause this are rarely cheap to repair. It the lift is smooth but the brakes are chattering or grinding walk away. Brake lining material and or metal from the brake disk will travel through the complete hydraulic system in short order if the tractor has been ran long with brake issues. Repairing the brake system is not too expensive but the possible damage to the rest of the hydraulic system is the kicker. The park brake is not too hard to repair but does require the final drive be removed. So while it is not terrible it is not cheap either.

The engines really do not worry me. The problems they usually have are no much different then any other tractor to fix. Yes it may cost money but your usually 100% sure you have it fixed when your done. The hydraulics can only have that level of confidence after going through the entire system and that is cost prohibitive in most cases.

DO not listen to fellows that tell you that the hydraulic system repairs on these tractors is not that high. That is only true in maybe 20% of the cases of hydraulic trouble. The more normal cost is on the $5-10K range. YES $10K. I have done several JD Mannheim tractors that only had hydraulic issues and had it cost $10K plus. A big part of this is labor. When the system get contaminated you can easily have to remove repair every single hydraulic component to full repair the system. The usual repair is in the $5-6K range If it includes the main pump and charge/transmission pump.

Truthfully I would rather someone buy an older JD Waterloo tractor than a unknown Mannheim tractor. A good JD 3020 can be bought for about the same money as JD 2750. The potential problem cost are not even in the same league. Just an example.

 

[Tx Jim]

I'll add that one can test coolant with a test strip kit available from JD or auto parts store. Also check hyd operation after engine has reached 190-200°F. Look for spraying/dripping oil in hyd filler hole behind seat. Look for wear in drawbar hole & how loose 3 pt hitch balls are in draft arms.

 

[jon f mn]

the drawbar, 3pt, and pto are all good indicators of how much
work a tractor has done and what type of work. If one of more is
woken a lot it will be a high hour tractor. That does not tell
much about its current condition, but it's hard to hide heavy use
in those areas.

 

[Mike M]

JD: Been awhile since I've been on one of these. Does the clutch pedel effect the charge pump on these like say a 4020 ? where you have to have the pedal up when starting.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

I'd ask to see what hydraulic oil the owner uses in the tractor,if it was anything but JD oil I'd walk away right then.

 

[blue_tractor_man]

I have a Manheim 2755 with 5,000 hours. It
runs great. It is perfect for what I do
with it. I bought it used and it was well
maintained. If you buy the tractor giving
it a 50-50 chance, just get it at the right
price. If you have to have the hydraulics
re-done, then the tough part of the repairs
are finished. Anything else you can do
yourself. Life is always a gamble.

 

[Texasmark1]

On a Ford, it's easy.....look at the wear on the clutch (and the brake pedals) especially on the stamped steel that came out in '65. For earlier and JD (2
OEMS I have/had) just look at the teats on the pedal. If rubber boot covered, if new or missing, clues to beware. Other pointers are drawbar pin hole
wallowed out, loose steering (I give the steering knuckles a twist to see how tight), grease zerks that have never seen grease, Diesels that don't jump when
you twist the key.

New rubber and seat hide wear and signs of leaving out in the weather have always been a flag to me. I know it's the custom but personally I keep my stuff
shedded and when I'm looking to buy I want something that has had that kind of care.

Old paint doesn't look as pretty as new but it hides no surprises!!!!!!

 

[LarryH]

where does mother deere refine its oil

 

[Bill VA]

Just curious - how would a Waterloo 40 - 55 series be different that it wouldn?t be such an expensive/complicated fix with regards to the hydraulics?

 

[SVcummins]

Mother Deere hasn?t done anything in 193 years since that?s how long ago she died so I doubt she refines any oil . John Deere hydraulic oil is speced j 20 a and j20 c for the newer machines and has brake chatter addatives that the generic 303 which was also a John Deere spec from the 60s hydraulic oil doesn?t there is a warning on the yelllow buckets not to use in equipment newer than 1970 . Hydraulic oil is not regulated buy the api like engine oil is either

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 13:01:18 08/08/18) Just curious - how would a Waterloo 40 - 55 series be different that it wouldn?t be such an expensive/complicated fix with regards to the hydraulics?

Waterloo built tractors don't have the history of failed internal hyd supply lines similar to the Dubuque/Mannheim built tractors therefore IMHO hyd failures on Waterloo tractors are much easier to diagnose/repair than the Dubuque/Mannheim built tractors. Hyd 2 speed on Waterloo tractors is much more durable than the utility tractors. There's no telling how many 1000's of times the hyd hi-lo on my 4255 has had speeds changed from high to low & vice versa in 11,000 hrs of use without needing repair.

 

[radara4077]

Some great stuff, guys! I appreciate it! I may be going to look at this machine soon...

Add-on question. Seller says the tractor hasn't had a loader (big selling point for me--I'll be adding one, but is most likely a good thing if it hasn't done any loader work in its past). How can I tell whether or not one has been on it? I'm guessing look at the mounting holes, but is there anything else I'm missing in that regard?

 

[dhermesc]

The steering usually tells a lot about a tractor. Repairs are expensive and usually don't happen until it fails - especially on neglected machines. The spindles and the slop in side to side turning of the
wheel will show you how hard its been used.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

I've had several people at JD dealerships tell me if the wrong hydraulic fluid is used in JD tractors it'll cause the brake linings to come apart so I'd take their word for it.Do know my cousin has a 2355 and a 2555 that he has never used anything but JD oil in them and he hasn't had the hydraulic problems I hear about.One has over 10,000 hrs on it.

 

[centash]

Make sure it has the side plates beside the engine if mounting a loader and the
ported oil filter canister. If it had a loader, it may or may not have
these....along with some dents in the front part of the hood. Look for a
T connection on the pressure side of the oil line down next to the filter canister
and any evidence of a valve control mounted on the fender or hoses rubbing on the
side of the cowl. A JD loader specific to that model is your best choice and easiest to mount.
Ben

 

[Texasmark1]

Steering would be worn, front axle may have been broken and welded, front kingpins could be sloppy...need to jack up front end to check, extra large tires
on front as compared to tires listed in Tractor Data for one reference.......besides the other comments.

 

[Texasmark1]

King pins aka spindles aka mechanism whereby the wheel assembly pivots with respect to the front axle. As stated, rocking the front end by rotating the steering wheel back and forth with the tractor not moving and watching the interface for any movement. While you are there check for obvious signs of regular greasing, like no rust on the grease zerks, fresh/reasonably fresh grease oozed out of the upper and lower interface points.

 

[radara4077]

(quoted from post at 17:17:28 08/08/18) Make sure it has the side plates beside the engine if mounting a loader and the
ported oil filter canister. If it had a loader, it may or may not have
these....along with some dents in the front part of the hood. Look for a
T connection on the pressure side of the oil line down next to the filter canister
and any evidence of a valve control mounted on the fender or hoses rubbing on the
side of the cowl. A JD loader specific to that model is your best choice and easiest to mount.
Ben

It appears from pictures, at least, that this tractor has the side plates.

I am hoping (fingers crossed) that if I make this trade, I'll be able take the Deere 245 loader off my current open-station 2550 that I'm trading in and mount it on this SoundGard 2750 that I'm looking to buy (seller has agreed to that point in principle). I am also hoping that, if I need to, I can swap any donor parts (like the oil filter canister) from my 2550 to the 2750.

I think the only thing I'll need to procure is a different control lever and set-up. Right now, my 2550 has the valve and joystick mounted on the loader.

Ya'll know if there's anything else I need to be on the lookout for with regards to switching the loader?

 

[radara4077]

So far, I've only seen pictures. Paint looks original. Cab interior has been redone.

I hope to be going next weekend to take a look at this tractor (it's 4 hours away). So I will definitely take the time to do as you all suggest above.

Is there any advice on switching the loader? I imagine it won't be a quick job...