Engine overhaul kit vs in-frame kits...

[Diymechanicmike]

Why are the inframe kits more expensive then the overhaul kits for the continental g176 engines? Is there a difference in quality or should I just buy the overhaul kit and keep leftovers for later on. I'm planning to just do the inframe rebuild cause I have the front end loader on my tractor and dont really want to remove that then split tractor and all that. So really I'm just wondering what the difference is and why the up charge for the "words" INFRAME, seems to me that's only differance except it's also missing a few more parts for a few more bucks.....

 

[Welding man]

I have personally never run into that, but I won't, because I do not under any circumstances do in frame overhauls. No good way to check the
crank, clean the block or replace the main seals. Maybe the in frame kits are made somewhere besides China.

 

[tractorsam]

Why are you looking to do the overhaul? Unless theres a
very specific issue relating to just the pistons/rings/liners
you are probably wasting your time. As previously
mentioned it doesnt allow the repair or proper inspection
of most of the rotating members. Also, if you are going to
try the inframe I would disassemble everything and drop
the main bearings that you can access before ordering
parts, if theyre worn beyond tolerances then the inframe
isnt viable. As to why the inframe kit might be more
expensive, maybe it is a less popular option that requires
being specially packaged.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 02:12:37 11/06/22) Why are you looking to do the overhaul? Unless theres a
very specific issue relating to just the pistons/rings/liners
you are probably wasting your time. As previously
mentioned it doesnt allow the repair or proper inspection
of most of the rotating members. Also, if you are going to
try the inframe I would disassemble everything and drop
the main bearings that you can access before ordering
parts, if theyre worn beyond tolerances then the inframe
isnt viable. As to why the inframe kit might be more
expensive, maybe it is a less popular option that requires
being specially packaged.

I'm planning to do the inframe rebuild because my tractor just started spitting oil out of the dipstick tube right after I changed the oil and got the new spin on oil filter adapter. My tractor was running fine before this started and it even was running fine while it was loosing oil but had to shut her down before she went empty. It wasnt gushing oil just spitting. Everything I looked up said the pistons rings and liners need swapped out cuz I have too much blow by pressurizing the crankcase forcing oil out dipstick tube everytime we get an explosion. If I'm wrong please inform me.

Also right now I dont have access to a nice concrete floor to split my tractor on for this repair, so I'd rather just do the inframe, and when the time comes that my clutch finally wears out I'll be forced to split it then and have to figure out a way to do it in my perfectly rocked driveway lol.

 

[tractorsam]

What you said concerns me, anything major that changes
when work is done seems odd. Are you sure that you
have the correct oil at the correct level? Have you done a
compression test? If the engine was fine before the oil
change it seems unlikely to be worn out after it.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 18:36:38 11/06/22) What you said concerns me, anything major that changes
when work is done seems odd. Are you sure that you
have the correct oil at the correct level? Have you done a
compression test? If the engine was fine before the oil
change it seems unlikely to be worn out after it.

Well it didnt happen "right" after the oil change.... I got the spin on oil filter adapter, new wix spin on filter, and 10w30 oil, installed filter and adapter and poured oil in, checked level per usual, right on the money, started engine let run for about 5 min, shut it down, checked oil again, may have added a bit more after filling the filter and all other holding cavities, then started back up and went on to hook up landscape rake to rake the border of our prescribed burn site. After about an hour of that I drove tractor down to where we park it and started to hook up the forks to move a log and noticed oil draining down the side of motor by dipstick. First off I thought it was because I was on quite the slant of a hill on my way back down and it was just leaking out but when I started it back up I noticed it squirting out, so I drove it about 20 feet to go ahead and park it under shelter. I check the oil level and I still had plenty of oil so it didnt loose alot before I noticed the leak thankfully. So that is the story of how it happened. So now that you know that, do you have any other thoughts as to why my tractor is squirting oil out of dipstick? I mean what else could cause that becides excessive crankcase pressure? And what other then pistons/sleeves being worn can cause excessive crankcase pressure? It all makes perfect sense to me but if you got more please elaborate. . . .

 

[Bob N.Y.]

The head gasket on my 65 diesel was blown between #2 cylinder and where the oil drains back down from the valve train. It did not push oil out by the dip stick, but did have a lot a blow-by. Is the oil level high now? Does the oil smell like fuel?

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 10:38:26 11/07/22) The head gasket on my 65 diesel was blown between #2 cylinder and where the oil drains back down from the valve train. It did not push oil out by the dip stick, but did have a lot a blow-by. Is the oil level high now? Does the oil smell like fuel?

unny you should say that, we also have a second 3165 model tractor but without a front end loader and the perkins ad4.203 diesel engine that seems to be doing the same thing you just explained, on first start up the exhaust smokes a bit then clears up but the vent tube up by crank pulley rolls smoke pretty steadily, but we dont have any oil squirting out dipstick either, maybe that's all we need to do on that one... fingers crossed!!!

But back to the continental g176 gasoline engine issues, no the oil did not smell like fuel and it was actually low because oil was squirting out. But the exhaust on the gas tractor seems fine, no real signs of anything pretty much clear exhaust, unless its cold and I have to choke it then on first start up it poofs a lil black smoke from being rich when choking it, but as soon as choke is off it's clear as the air. And I dont believe I have ever seen any smoke coming out of the vent tube on that tractor, heck the gas tractor has never smoked always ran good only issue is the oil slobbering out dipstick tube.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

I do plan to do a compression test within the next week. What should I be looking for when running the test? Like psi ratings? And I think each cylinder needs to be within a certain psi of one another right? I'll record each reading from each cylinder when I do the test and report back with results. Would the diesel engine be different then the gasoline engine?

 

[tractorsam]

In reply to this - yes excess base pressure could
definitely cause it. Oil of the wrong grade or quantity
could too. The other question is why do you have excess
base pressure (if you do)? It would be very odd to go
from zero symptoms to pushing oil up the dipstick tube in
an hours run time with no other issues. How long have
you owned the tractor? Did you previously run 10w30?

 

[tractorsam]

Compression tests should be done with the throttle wide
open, all plugs removed, and a fully charged battery. A
gas engine may run with compression as low as 60-70
but 80 would normally be the bottom end. 100psi is
good, 120 really good. The difference should not be more
than 10% between cylinders. Once youve done the initial
test, do it again after adding a couple of tablespoons of
motor oil to each cylinder right before you test it. A
notable increase with the oil would suggest leakage past
the rings.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 03:33:24 11/08/22) Compression tests should be done with the throttle wide
open, all plugs removed, and a fully charged battery. A
gas engine may run with compression as low as 60-70
but 80 would normally be the bottom end. 100psi is
good, 120 really good. The difference should not be more
than 10% between cylinders. Once youve done the initial
test, do it again after adding a couple of tablespoons of
motor oil to each cylinder right before you test it. A
notable increase with the oil would suggest leakage past
the rings.

hanks for the great explanation of how I should test the compression, I assume the fuel should be shut-off while doing this as well. Would the diesel engine be about the same?

 

[Diymechanicmike]

I have owned the gas tractor for about 5 years and I got it from a person Who didnt want to dump any money into it so everything was jerryrigged that could be.... we have gotten most of the kinks out that were RIGGED and it has been a pretty good tractor. We have only used it maybe 1000 hours and that's probably being generous. Mostly bush hogging about 5 acres total of pretty rugged terrained ground, rolling hills and slopes everywhere on multiple different angles lol. We also have spread gravel out on a driveway we also graded with the same tractor. Moved logs around you know normal tractor kinda stuff. I would say the worse thing that has happened with it since owning it "engine health" wise was 2 summers ago when bush hogging it got hot, like I noticed it when it was about 3/4 way to red line and shut it off immediately had to let it sit about 3 hours cuz it was so hot out and the radiator started boiling inside right after I shut it down for about 5 mins. That kind of worried me but we ended up realizing the radiator just needed blown out from inside out cuz of the dust clogging while bush hogging. We changed the oil soon after that happened to be on the safe side cuz it got so hot and it was probably due for a oil change anyhow. That winter2019-2020 I ordered the new grill and screen guard thing for it cuz previous owner like I said neglected it til the day we bought it. But after that new grill/guard we didnt have any issues with over heating that next year. It had this oil issue this past winter probably february-march2022 when we changed oil again, only difference this time is we got the spin on adapter and a wix oil filter. We used 10w30 I believe the "Napa" house brand oil and we have used that previously too. May have used 5w30 too in past if we were in a pinch and only had a jug in the back of my truck. That's what I use in my truck. But other then the crankcase pressure issue, I cant think of why the oil is squirting out of dipstick.

 

[tractorsam]

Is the crankcase breather clear?

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 02:12:10 11/10/22) Is the crankcase breather clear?

ou are talking about the vent tube that comes out of valve cover and runs down front of engine near crank pulley right? If so I think it's clear but next time I go down I can bring some tools and take it off to be sure.

 

[tractorsam]

I dont know exactly where it is on your tractor/engine but
that sounds likely. If youre doing the compression test as
well you can also try putting compressed air in each
cylinder and see how much leaks into the base.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 06:27:12 11/10/22) I dont know exactly where it is on your tractor/engine but
that sounds likely. If youre doing the compression test as
well you can also try putting compressed air in each
cylinder and see how much leaks into the base.

k so if I push compressed air into each cylinder and if there is a leak in cylinder, will the air come out of vent tube? If it's not plugged up? And if its plugged up what will happen to air? Spit oil out of dipstick tube?

And if the cylinder is tight and all good then my air hose will just pressure up like there is nowhere for the air to go?

Sorry for the abundant questions, I just want to have all the testing procedures lined out so when I go down to test everything I get some conclusive information. It's hard to diagnose problems with something that is a 30 minute commute from you one way, that's why we put it off this whole summer cuz we had too much maintenance and everything else going on to keep up with.

The diesel tractor we have at home so its much easier to test stuff on but were trying to figure out which tractor we should fixed first. The gas tractor has the loader on it so it's obviously the one we can do more work with and that we are more used too. The only thing we have done with the diesel tractor is pull my old car up a hill while it smoked out the mosquito population around us. So were on quite the teeder todder of thoughts as to which tractor we want to dump more time on when we get it lol...

 

[tractorsam]

If you put compressed air into the cylinder you have to be
aware of several things. First if you arent at TDC on the
compression stroke the air may just come out one of the
valves. If you are on TDC on compression it may still
come out one of the valves if you have a problem.
Secondly, if you are able to get some pressure in the
cylinder it is very likely to spin the engine as the piston
gets pushed to the bottom. You may need to slip the
transmission in gear once you have the engine in the
correct position - be aware this could cause the tractor to
try and move. The general idea behind this test is to try
and identify where compression may be leaking, even if
things are good some will leak past the pistons.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 02:13:47 11/13/22) If you put compressed air into the cylinder you have to be
aware of several things. First if you arent at TDC on the
compression stroke the air may just come out one of the
valves. If you are on TDC on compression it may still
come out one of the valves if you have a problem.
Secondly, if you are able to get some pressure in the
cylinder it is very likely to spin the engine as the piston
gets pushed to the bottom. You may need to slip the
transmission in gear once you have the engine in the
correct position - be aware this could cause the tractor to
try and move. The general idea behind this test is to try
and identify where compression may be leaking, even if
things are good some will leak past the pistons.

well I went down to our property today and was planning on doing the compression test, but I first went to check the breather tube. And all four of my studs/nuts twisted off when trying to loosen the vent tube. Anyhow I got the tube off the valve cover and played twister with it trying to get it out cuz the loader support was in the way. The port on valve cover is completely caked closed with looks like carbon deposit. So much so that I'm leaving it caked and just gonna remove hood,fuel tank, then the valve cover and clean it out off of the tractor cuz I dont want that stuff falling down in there. Then investigate if anything needs any attention inside of there. Obviously a new gasket will need to be gotten for the valve cover and the vent tube, the studs on valve cover for vent tube will need to be replaced if possible?.?.? Will find out later.... hopefully this all that is wrong with my tractor. Is there anything I should check out while getting in to the valve cover? Check valves out I guess.....

Also I threw in some pics of my engine oil dipstick issue because the continental engine oil dipstick is obsolete. The one I have in pic is one I ordered for my tractor but I believe it was for the diesel engine. The lil bell housing thing on shaft doesnt fit over the dipstick tube on engine block.

 

[tractorsam]

Good day, based on all of the above I would do the
following. I would plan to remove the valve cover and
clean the breather port (still a good idea to ensure the
tube is clear as well). Then get the studs fixed, there is
probably some kind of filter on the inside of the breather
ports so access may be difficult, I would probably try
welding new studs on the outside. Then I would set the
valves. While doing all this I would either scour junkyards
or ask on here for the measurements and buy or fabricate
a dipstick that fits. You may be running an incorrect oil
level and the dipstick should seal a little better than that.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 02:13:45 11/14/22) Good day, based on all of the above I would do the
following. I would plan to remove the valve cover and
clean the breather port (still a good idea to ensure the
tube is clear as well). Then get the studs fixed, there is
probably some kind of filter on the inside of the breather
ports so access may be difficult, I would probably try
welding new studs on the outside. Then I would set the
valves. While doing all this I would either scour junkyards
or ask on here for the measurements and buy or fabricate
a dipstick that fits. You may be running an incorrect oil
level and the dipstick should seal a little better than that.

eah my plan is to get that valve cover off by end of week, only issue is I'm worried about rodents getting into my engine while I have valve cover off. Been a while since I have been inside a valve cover, are there any ports/holes that a rodent could get into the head? I guess I'll just bring some old rags to stuff inside of holes. I dont have electricity where the tractor is so I cant use a shop vac to suck anything up out of ports or holes so I have to be careful not to drop anything or let any dirt/dust get down inside. As to the dipstick, the previous neglector did have a fabricated dipstick, however im.not sure how accurate it was and it didnt seal all that well around the tube. It was basically a piece of round file stock that didnt have any filings on it and there was a flat edge all the way down one side, which I guess was for the oil measure, but on the top, instead of a bell shaped thing to seal he welded a nut that fit around the dipstick tube and it just sat on there, and I believe once or twice it came out. That's why I was trying to get a real dipstick for it but it's basically nonexistent. I mean of all things how does a dipstick become an endangered part lol. I have even went to napa trying to find one with my measurements and still nothing would work. I just dont get it, I can get dang near anything else for the tractor to rebuild it but I cant even get a dipstick to make sure I have the correct oil level inside!?!?!?!? Makes no sense lol.

 

[Diymechanicmike]

(quoted from post at 08:12:28 11/14/22)

(quoted from post at 02:13:45 11/14/22) Good day, based on all of the above I would do the
following. I would plan to remove the valve cover and
clean the breather port (still a good idea to ensure the
tube is clear as well). Then get the studs fixed, there is
probably some kind of filter on the inside of the breather
ports so access may be difficult, I would probably try
welding new studs on the outside. Then I would set the
valves. While doing all this I would either scour junkyards
or ask on here for the measurements and buy or fabricate
a dipstick that fits. You may be running an incorrect oil
level and the dipstick should seal a little better than that.

eah my plan is to get that valve cover off by end of week, only issue is I'm worried about rodents getting into my engine while I have valve cover off. Been a while since I have been inside a valve cover, are there any ports/holes that a rodent could get into the head? I guess I'll just bring some old rags to stuff inside of holes. I dont have electricity where the tractor is so I cant use a shop vac to suck anything up out of ports or holes so I have to be careful not to drop anything or let any dirt/dust get down inside. As to the dipstick, the previous neglector did have a fabricated dipstick, however im.not sure how accurate it was and it didnt seal all that well around the tube. It was basically a piece of round file stock that didnt have any filings on it and there was a flat edge all the way down one side, which I guess was for the oil measure, but on the top, instead of a bell shaped thing to seal he welded a nut that fit around the dipstick tube and it just sat on there, and I believe once or twice it came out. That's why I was trying to get a real dipstick for it but it's basically nonexistent. I mean of all things how does a dipstick become an endangered part lol. I have even went to napa trying to find one with my measurements and still nothing would work. I just dont get it, I can get dang near anything else for the tractor to rebuild it but I cant even get a dipstick to make sure I have the correct oil level inside!?!?!?!? Makes no sense lol.

k so i got the valve cover off and it was indeed plugged up with gunk. i got it all cleaned up and repainted it so it looks nice and lets me know for the future if it has fresh paint it was me that worked on it... i ended up cutting the breather tube about and inch from the mount to the valve cover and got a piece of multi fluid hose from napa and hooked it to the pipe i left, and hose clamped it on, and on the other end i put a piece of metal screen and clamped it with another hose clamp so now it shouldnt ever get plugged up again and i can easily clean out the screen if needed. and i can see if it will need cleaned. any how my tractor is running great now and not even a bit of oil coming out the dipstick at full throttle with dipstick removed. so we should be good to go now!!! i just cant belive we put this off for so long and let our workhorse sit all summer long!!! but its fixed now so maybe we will have a dry winter so we can get some clearing done and maybe some prescription burns done.

thanks for all the helpful info!!!