Farmall 5th gear still not staying engaged.

[WHFarms]

Farmall m 5th gear

This message is a reply to an archived post by charlieu on August 06, 2017 at 15:47:09. The original subject was Re: Farmall m 5th gear. I know this post is old, but did you really use a washer or where you able to find a machined shim somewhere. The size is a really odd size. My caliber...

forums.yesterdaystractors.com

 

[WHFarms]

 

[WHFarms]

Trying to get up the pictures from this post from a while back now that we have it in the shop and torn apart for the 663rd time.

 

[WHFarms]

Couple of questions:
1) While we have it apart we are thinking we want to replace the sliding gear. This appears to have a bit of wear, although the pictures make it look really bad) We already replaced and shimmed 5th gear (transmission gear).
2) We did not replace the small pinion bearing when we attempted to fix this last time. Does anyone have a part number. We cant located it on YT. I have the parts manual maybe I can find a NAPA cross - reference.
3) I think the fork is bent slightly. We are going to try to heat is and bend it slightly.
4) Our shifting lever measures 0.5 inches in length. From a picture I found on the internet it appears it should measure .75". We are thinking that we will build this up some. (we completely removed the lever and it still doesnt stay in 5th)
5) Does the spring on the shifting lever serve any purpose besided holding the cover down. Ours doesnt have a spring.

The detents on the shifting rails appear not to be worn.
Everything in the case appears to be tight.

 

[used red MN]

The pilot bearing is IH no. 43357DA #72 in the link available from CaseIH for $125.
CNHI Farmall M parts catalog
Here is a photo of a replacement bearing that has internal rollers. That number is the outer bearing race and rollers it also needs and inside race that will bolt onto the front of the transmission main shaft.
In this link from eBay you can read the inner and outer bearing numbers. Bearing on ebay

 

[Janicholson]

It has been crashed into 5th for years. that input gear drive flanks and spline engagement tip are toast. The shifter tip is supposed to be 3/4 and not tapered on the flats. The spring has no other task than (attempting) tokeep rain and dirt out of the tower. If you can check the parallelism of the 1-2 and 3-4 shift forks with 5th you can determine if it has been bent. careful use of flat bars and small clamps to the forks can allow extended measurement between the bars to establish parallelism. Jim

 

[caterpillar guy]

It appears that it has been roughly engaged into 5th over it's life and now it needs the gears probably would be best to change them as a set as well as the bearings on it. Also looks like you might have some water in the oil. Once done with it I would probably run it a day and change the oil while hot drain it so most of the debris drains out. The spring should have a ball on top of it to hold the lever into gear during use though so as to be to stiff to get out of gear. matched up to the others. The forks don't look bent to me looking at them in the pictures though check for the rails to move smoothly without the detent springs and balls.

 

[WHFarms]

It has been crashed into 5th for years. that input gear drive flanks and spline engagement tip are toast. The shifter tip is supposed to be 3/4 and not tapered on the flats. The spring has no other task than (attempting) tokeep rain and dirt out of the tower. If you can check the parallelism of the 1-2 and 3-4 shift forks with 5th you can determine if it has been bent. careful use of flat bars and small clamps to the forks can allow extended measurement between the bars to establish parallelism. Jim

I measured it with my caliper and left to right is equal. That said I don’t have a way to know if they are equally bent. It does “look” bent slightly.

The “gear” I purchased because the original was really really bad. It was used. Is there a way to replace it? The 5th/transmission is brand new. I have zero issues buying a new one. Should have don’t that from day one if I only knew.

 

[WHFarms]

The 5th transmission gear has less than 40 hours on it. Brand new. See linked post for the full backstory.

I will order a sliding 4th. Is there a trick to replacing it.

 

[Janicholson]

The 5th transmission gear has less than 40 hours on it. Brand new. See linked post for the full backstory.

I will order a sliding 4th. Is there a trick to replacing it.

The sliding gear that has a shifter fork groove at the engine end of the transmission is a 4th 5th sliding gear. The input gear is forward of that and has the constant mesh drive gear on it and the splines for 5th coupling. It is shown in 7223 image. If the 4/5 slider is new, don't replace it. if it is used it could still be 50% of the issue. the total engagement depth is small, and the crashing from 4th to 5th is a known bad reality that most H and M Farmalls endure until fixed. Jim

 

[WHFarms]

Sorry I am not at home where my manual is so I may have my formal Farmall language mixed a bit.

The 5th transmission gear with shaft and I think belt pulley pump is brand new. We replaced it this winter. We split the tractor and accessed that all up through the clutch bell housing by pulling the hydraulic pump reservoir. It has maybe 30-40 hours on it.

The sliding gear that slides forward and goes over the gear I already replaced needs to be replaced. Is there a trick to accessing it. How much needs torn out to replace it?

 

[Janicholson]

Sorry I am not at home where my manual is so I may have my formal Farmall language mixed a bit.

The 5th transmission gear with shaft and I think belt pulley pump is brand new. We replaced it this winter. We split the tractor and accessed that all up through the clutch bell housing by pulling the hydraulic pump reservoir. It has maybe 30-40 hours on it.

The sliding gear that slides forward and goes over the gear I already replaced needs to be replaced. Is there a trick to accessing it. How much needs torn out to replace it?

Only the front Constant mesh /pully drive gear (with all the clutch drive stuff involved). The bearing between that and the output shaft should be contained if it can come apart. but the 4/5 slider should pull off after the top cover is removed to allow the fork to come out of the groove. Jim

 

[WHFarms]

Only the front Constant mesh /pully drive gear (with all the clutch drive stuff involved). The bearing between that and the output shaft should be contained if it can come apart. but the 4/5 slider should pull off after the top cover is removed to allow the fork to come out of the groove. Jim

If I pull the 5th transmission gear back out the 4/5 slider might come of the end out from memory( I’m not at home today) it is going to hit one of the lower gears.

 

[WHFarms]

It appears that it has been roughly engaged into 5th over it's life and now it needs the gears probably would be best to change them as a set as well as the bearings on it. Also looks like you might have some water in the oil. Once done with it I would probably run it a day and change the oil while hot drain it so most of the debris drains out. The spring should have a ball on top of it to hold the lever into gear during use though so as to be to stiff to get out of gear. matched up to the others. The forks don't look bent to me looking at them in the pictures though check for the rails to move smoothly without the detent springs and balls.

The oil is brand new. There is no debris. I had this thing completely apart and put a new rear housing in as the original was cracked.

I absolutely wish I put an all new gears in it when I had the rear end all tore apart. I did not now I’m am redoing it.

I wish I would have videos putting the gears in because I can’t remember what I did to get the slider gears out.

 

[Janicholson]

If I pull the 5th transmission gear back out the 4/5 slider might come of the end out from memory( I’m not at home today) it is going to hit one of the lower gears.

It will not. unless you want it to, and pull on it. Jim

 

[WHFarms]

O

It will not. unless you want it to, and pull on it. Jim

Ok. I think I can get it pulled apart

 

[Janicholson]

O

Ok. I think I can get it pulled apart

You might be able to do it from the belt pulley opening (unless you want to work on that fork!) Jim