flipping the ring gear

[riverbend]

1940 H. As long as I'm this far in, why not flip the ring gear ? It is so chewed up that the old style starter drive would jam regularly. The new style has been good. Why do it ? Because I have never done it. And the chewed up teeth will quit working at some point.

Questions: Support the ring gear or the flywheel ? What is the best way to clean them when they are separated ? Will the gear have to get red hot ?

Any other helpful advice ?
Thanks
Greg

 

[rustred]

is the flywheel off? if so heat the gear up to 400 degrees f till it falls off with a slight tap. with the flywheel supported in the centre. but get yourself one of them digital temperature guns, handiest thing for doing this. definitly not red hot. just heat evenly right around , with a good sized tip. even if you give the gear a 90 degree turn that would do it. i dont know if them teeth have a chamfer on them for the starter drive , if so it cant be turned around. once off heat it back up and drop it back on with good leather welding gloves.and be ready with a hammer to seat it home. make sure the flywheel is cold also before dropping it on. even have the flywheel outside till your ready.

 

[riverbend]

That is one thing that I wondered about, do the teeth on the starter side have a chamfer ? The backside is very straight cut.

 

[Roscoe22]

Ring gears don't cost that much,do yourself a favor and replace gear,teeth that are left have half the metal to absorb starting load. I just went through a clutch and ring gear nightmare with my 504D that started with previous owner being cheap and flipping ring gear over to save a dollar. Same labor to install new gear as to flip old one,still have to split tractor,,not fun. I'm sure some here will argue with me,I don't care,if you can afford the tractor you can afford to fix it right.Experince is a very good teacher.

 

[rustred]

Yes I agree , but this is a gas tractor and a lot older and who knows if rings gears are available. Once the starter is engaged the battle is beat. Them worn teeth are there for the ride. And if proper tuned up they will start with 2 revolutions not 20. And I have never saw a bad ring gear on a 6 volt system.

 

[J Hamilton]

Just my opinion here, if the teeth are chewed up bad enough you want to flip the gear, I would replace it. This site has them, $44.95 plus shipping

 

[Roscoe22]

Well,apparently the 40H that Riverbend is working on had a 6 volt system and a worn out ring gear,so yeah it does happen,If it has been changed to 12 volts the problem will happen even sooner. No easier time than now to do it right.

 

[DanielW]

?? Ring gears are definitely available, as others have mentioned. Just did one for a friend's H. As far as I know, all H's used the 152 engine, no? I wouldn't even think of re-using the ring gear. Also as mentioned, they're pretty cheap.

If you do feel so miserly as to re-use, make sure you turn it a little too - don't just flip it over in the same spot. Engines typically stop on the compression stroke of a cylinder - only one of two spots for a four cylinder - which is why they get worn so bad in specific spots; that's where the starter first hits it.

 

[riverbend]

It is hard to get a good picture of the teeth but they are not half worn away. Just enough to cause the old style starter drive to jam. Just my opinion, but a gear that big that is only $45 is not worth installing.

Use the bolt hole for the pressure plate as a reference point.

I guess the remaining question is: Were both sides originally square cut ?

 

[rustred]

If it was my tractor I would dress them teeth up with a small dremel tool. They are not that bad. But thats me I know what works for me. Check your starter bendix , should have showed that also. Plus u need to replace it anyhow with a new ring gear.

 

[tractorguy2]

I have flipped the ger on two Case SC tractors and they work fine. one was 35 years ago. I also know someone who flipped the gear on a 4020.

 

[redforlife]

Another vote here to replace with new. That is, if you can get one, and the price is like what's been mentioned.

No, the used one that you got doesn't look all that bad. And likely can be flipped, considering it hasn't already been flipped and the other side is good. But if your going to go to the trouble of flipping it, which is the same amount of trouble as just changing it, might as well put a new one on. It's not the labor of flipping the gear that I'd be concerned about. But the labor of getting to that point (getting the flywheel removed), is the labor that I'd be concerned about. I wouldn't ever want to remove that flywheel again. Not even 15 years down the road. Putting on new now, helps to ensure that you won't have to. And for them kind of dollars, why not???

I have flipped a few ring gears around. But only on clutch jobs or something like that, and when the flywheel wasn't hard to take out (didn't have to split a tractor to take it out). Ussually didn't have a ring gear problem anyways. Just flipped it because I was there, and it hadn't been done to the ring gear before already. Just kind of did it, to be doing it. And it was a good thing to do while you was there.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Lets see the ring gear there is probably the original and went some 60 years and more. The new ones will be cheap junk material from the land of not even quite right. The old one if flipped and turned a quarter turn will last for another 50 years. Now as for the chamfer on the teeth by the looks of the less worn teeth in your pictures I would say no they were not chamfered. Look at other areas of the ring gear and not worn and see if there is a chamfer on them. Hard to see for sure in your pictures. Change the drive and put back in. Not that hard nor big a job to split an H. A few bolts gas line and clutch linkage. The front end is harder holding than the split.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

First I've heard someone complain about parts being too INexpensive...

CaseIH doesn't make their own parts for 80 year old tractors. The $45 ring gear came off the same production line as the $300 one from the dealer, so... up to you who you want to pay.

I don't see a problem with either plan. Ring gears were designed to be flipped to double their lives. Splitting an H is no big deal.

 

[gene bender]

no need to remove the flywheel just take the torch and go around the ring gear a few times it will slip rite off turn it over and replace mite need to use the torch again on the ring gear so it will slip rite back doesent take much heat

 

[560Dennis]

No 45 chamfer on flip , gear inside diameter. Better put one on it cause it wont bottom correctly for gear mesh with starter pinion gear.
The yesterdays parts here has a replacement 4 45 , their replacement comes with chamfer. Cheaper to put the replacement on it . Your choice which way to go.

 

[jimtrs]

NO, not red hot.
Use a hammer and punch to drive off the gear. Clean with a wire brush. Then set up the turned / flipped / new ring gear on top of the flywheel, setting on a couple of rods or rebar. With heavy gloves on, go around the ring gear with your torch, for probably 1 - 2 minutes heating evenly. DO NOT GO TO RED HOT. You will lose any temper. Set torch down, remove the rods and the ring gear should drop on. If not, set back up and heat more. Once dropped, Let cool.

A new ring gear may or may not have the chamfer

 

[riverbend]

Thanks for the help. It was back together before I heard about the bevel on the ring gear. There is less than 0.002 (thinnest feeler gauge I have) between the flywheel and the ring gear so I think it will be okay. I did put a tiny bevel on all the teeth just for good measure.

Does any one ever grease the ring gear ? I can imagine that too much would make a mess but none doesn't seem quite right either.

 

[J.Wondergem]

I think grease will get a lot of crap sticking to it, causing it to really ware.

 

[kshansen]

(quoted from post at 13:16:52 12/16/22)
I think grease will get a lot of crap sticking to it, causing it to really ware.

Plus hard to imagine wearing that gear out if the engine is in good condition, I know my BN fires up after the most two revolutions of the ring gear, usually probably less than 1/4. It was 30 year old when I got it 45 years ago so I know that gear is at least 45 years old and probably the original one from the factory. So if it's lasted this long can not see where lubing it would help.

I'd be more concerned about making sure the gear on the starter is in good condition, and try not to try starting the engine if it is already running!

This post was edited by kshansen on 12/16/2022 at 12:37 pm.

 

[jimtrs]

(quoted from post at 21:11:44 12/15/22)
Does any one ever grease the ring gear ?

No, not on purpose anyway.
One thing leaking rear main seals or front transmission seals have taught us is that lube just gums up the starter drive shaft, causing sliding problems on the drive gear.

 

[mrhud]

just make sure that thier is not a bevaled edge on the inside of the ring i replace one on a john deere yesterday and it could ony go one way or it would stick out to far because of the beval on the flywheel and the ring gear

 

[mrhud]

teeth dont need to have a beval lot of replacements dont have a beval on the teeth

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

No grease. Dust will stick in the grease, mixes with the grease and becomes lapping compound.