ford 4000 hydraulic fluid

[Anonymous-0]

I have a 1971 ford 4000 with a loader and backhoe. what type of fluid should be used for the hydraulic's. the machine hydraulic resvoir is under a panel at the front of the machine wih a dipstick. I have added 32awg and hope that is alright. if not what should i do?

 

[sotxbill]

any tractor rated hydraulic fluid will do...

 

[RodinNS]

The AW32 is fine in the loader/front pump/resevoir system..... but.... it IS NOT ok in the rear axle/main hydraulic system. The rear axle requires Ford/NH 134D or an equivelant TDH/UTF or whatever moniker they hang on it. For simplicity's sake it's easier to use TDH in both hydraulic systems as the cost is about the same anyway.

Rod

 

[souNdguy]

I agree with rod. I'd use UTF fluid in both the tractor hyd sump.. and any seperate hyd sumps..at least in my area.. utf and plain hyd oil cost the same.. so no reason to stock 2 oils when the utf is fine for both.. also prevents accidents from happening.

soundguy

 

[daman]

(quoted from post at 16:42:22 04/28/10) The AW32 is fine in the [b:e587a21cfe]loader/front pump/resevoir system[/b:e587a21cfe]..... but.... it IS NOT ok in the rear axle/[b:e587a21cfe]main hydraulic system[/b:e587a21cfe].Rod

Rod aren't they the same? confusing.

 

[RodinNS]

Is what the same...?

AW32 is simply an antiwear hydraulic oil. TDH/134D/Hydraul 56 and various other similar products are a GL4 rated gear lube with friction modifiers added for the correct operation of wet brakes and wet clutches... so the 4000 will require that for it's wet brakes.

If you're refering to the front pump/resevoir as the tractor's main hydraulic system.... then no.

I would consider the internal pump found in the rear axle or the rear engine mounted pump which is plumbed to the rear axle to be the main system... for the operation of the three point hitch.
The loader/backhoe would have a front mounted stinger pump system which is generally considered an auxillary system...

Rod

 

[daman]

Read my post above yours in bold.

i know all about wet brakes not asking about that i guess i had the 4500 hyd system in mind

 

[Ecnerwal]

For some reason we are running two threads on the same thing here. The tractor code is D5011F - ie, it's a 4500. While you folks with ag tractors and 3-point hitches might consider the rear system to be the main system, the built-in and essential to most uses nature of the 4500 package (front pump, etc), not to mention the fact that it has far greater capacity (and a 4500 with a backhoe mounted has no usable 3-point, if it even had a 3 point at all) leads me to think of that as the main system, and the rear end as the rear end, with any hydraulic functions it may have as minor afterthoughts. Doesn't change the fluid choices (must use UTF in tranny & rear end, can use either UTF or "regular" hydrualic in the package) but we (or at least I) certainly view the main pump as the 27 gallon-per-minute unit up front, not the piddly 4-5 gallon per minute unit on the back (either not there at all, on the one with no 3 point and a manual tranny, or not doing much if it is, unless I'm missing something about its function - I'm blanking on whether it's completely missing or not on that tractor).

 

[daman]

Doesn't change the fluid choices (must use UTF in tranny & rear end, can use either UTF [b:c428407659]or "regular" hydrualic in the package)[/b:c428407659]

Thats what what i was getting at,trans and definitely rear end UTF but hyd package on the 4500 is separate so one [i:c428407659]could[/i:c428407659] use a regular hyd fluid in that application if desired from what i gather,i don't mind having two oils on hand i find the UTF really thins out at operating hot temps thats one issue i don't like about it, in my observations even in a properly working system hyd could suffer performance with thinned out fluid.

 

[RodinNS]

I didn't see anything in ~this~ thread about the tractor being a '4500'. I saw 'loader backhoe' which does not in any way restrict it to being a 4500.
That also does not restrict a 4500 to being a 'loader backhoe'......
I won't say for sure on that vintage... but certainly in later models they sold industrial tractor models as loader/utility tractors that came fully equipped with PTO and three point hitch. If I had to guess I'd say they did the same with the 4500....

Point being... whether or not it has a pump in the rear axle, that pump is always going to be referenced as the 'main system pump' on a Ford AG based tractor which is what the 4500 is. The loader pump/stinger pump will be referenced as a 'front mount pump' in the parts catologue...

Either way, 134D is quite acceptable in the front system. I think if you look you'll also find that AW32 has a slightly lighter base stock than 134D. At most it would be very similar, but certainly not heavier. AW56 I think is the same weight as 134D or Hydraul 56 (Hydraul 56 is what Esso used to supply to Ford/NH in 134D cans). AW68 would be a good deal heavier than 134D...

Bottom line. He didn't hurt anything by adding some AW32 to that system.

Rod

 

[daman]

Either way, 134D is quite acceptable in the front system. I think if you look you'll also find that AW32 has a slightly lighter base stock than 134D. At most it would be very similar, but certainly not heavier. AW56 I think is the same weight as 134D or Hydraul 56 (Hydraul 56 is what Esso used to supply to Ford/NH in 134D cans). AW68 would be a good deal heavier than 134D...

Thanks rod, so in you opinion one [i:62c7b7217e]could[/i:62c7b7217e] use a AW oil in the main hyd's on say a 4500 TLB with out any problems?

 

[RodinNS]

Nope.... unless you like buying brake plates.

Rod

 

[daman]

(quoted from post at 14:36:02 04/29/10) Nope.... unless you like buying brake plates.

Rod

Rod i'm talking in the [u:fc58d6f000]main hyd's[/u:fc58d6f000],the hyd package on the 4500 tlb,NOT in the rear end,the main hyd and rear end is separate on a 4500 TLB.

i know it's a no,no in the rear end for the breaks

 

[Ecnerwal]

(quoted from post at 08:42:22 04/29/10) I didn't see anything in ~this~ thread about the tractor being a '4500'. I saw 'loader backhoe' which does not in any way restrict it to being a 4500.
That also does not restrict a 4500 to being a 'loader backhoe'......
I won't say for sure on that vintage... but certainly in later models they sold industrial tractor models as loader/utility tractors that came fully equipped with PTO and three point hitch. If I had to guess I'd say they did the same with the 4500....

A guest with the same handle as the guest posting here and I had a discussion in a parallel thread in which it came out that his 4000 TLB was actually a 4500. So I'd guess it's the same guest and tractor. And yes, 4500's were available with 3 point (I have one) and PTO (I don't have one) as well as none of the above (I have one of those, too, and suspect it might be the most common variant of 4500, given the features built in for TLB use even on those with other setups.)

Daman, when Rod says main, he's talking the rear end/3-point if any. As he has explained, he views the front pump and package as an auxiliary. It's a matter of factory terminology and/or viewpoint. Plain 32, or 54, or 68 will work in the package. 68 might get interesting in the winter, though. I'm pretty much with the UTF everywhere on the "only have one fluid on hand" side of this, since they do cost about the same, but I have dumped all sorts of things in there when I've been working despite leaks...

Mind you, the CNH online parts catalog refers to both of them as just plain hydrualic pump.

 

[RodinNS]

I think Ecnerwal pretty well covered what I was getting at... but I'll take one last go at it....

If you bust a pump on your 4500 at 15:30 on a thursday afternoon in harvest season... and you call your dealer because you're in a rush and need a pump.... and you get the kid behind the counter who wasn't more than a twinkle in his grandpa's eye when the 4500 was built... and then you tell him you want a ~MAIN~ hydraulic pump for a 1971 Ford 4500... I can just about guarantee you he'll look in PAL. There he's going to find every pump ever fitted to a Ford 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 and 7000 series tractor including your 4500. There he will probably find something like Pump, Main, 4000, 4100, 4200, 4400, 4500 (10/68-9/75) or something to that effect all listed in a column with about 15 other pumps. He's gonna say, yeah, jackpot. In stock at joliet.... 700 bucks plus 40 bucks air for tomorrow morning. You b!tch and grind your teeth but you need the tractor now and can't get anyone else to do the job... and you don't have time to screw around looking for what you know is a simple Vickers gear pump so you tell him to get the pump. In the morning you head to the dealer to gt your pump.... Here you're presented with a side drive Sauer Danfoss with an 8 bolt flange mount.... indeed the replacement for the original MAIN pump supplied by Plessy Dynamics. In the ensuing ruckus the kid maimtains that this is indeed the correct part number for the MAIN pump on a 4500.... at which point the parts manager steps in, mabey by now realizing that you have a bareback 4500 TLB... and you probably want the Auxillary FRONT MOUNT pump.
At this point you truly hope you've landed early enough in the day that the guy isn't too cranky yet... and he realizes that mabey you're new to the scene and haven't yet attended your first rodeo... and hopefully he won't charge you 25% restocking and freight and mabey he'll look around and see if he's got a pump on the back shelf collecting dust that will fit your tractor.
I've been down that road once or twice. Now most times I get my own part numbers and verify with the parts manager to double check...

Just keep in mind that Ford almost always refers to the rear axle mounted pumps as 'main' pumps, engine mounted pumps simply as 'Engine Mounted Pump, (gear or piston)' and Front/Stinger pumps as 'Front Mounted Pump'. This is in spite of the fact that the main pump on all 2000, 3000 and 3 cylinder SOS tractors is 'Engine Mounted' and in spite of the fact that the 'Main' pump and 'Main' hydraulic system may have been deleted as in the case of this particular 4500....
So no... I would never use AW32 in the 'Main' hydraulic system on a Ford 4500 tractor.

Rod

 

[daman]

Ok.. i have NO pto...NO 3 point... ONLY a manual shift TLB ok with me? and i only have one pump in the front, driving off the engine crank via pto correct that operates the loader and hoe correct?

 

[RodinNS]

I'm not sure where you're going with this anymore...
but if you have a front pump, drawing from a front mount or loader frame resevoir, AW32 is fine in that tank.

If you want to define that as the 'main' pump... In NH parts terminology, you do so at your own peril.

Rod

 

[Ultradog MN]

[i:654c4848f0]I think Ecnerwal pretty well covered what I was getting at... but I'll take one last go at it....[/i:654c4848f0]

Good post Rod. And dittos to Ecnerwal.

 

[daman]

(quoted from post at 02:20:50 04/30/10) I'm not sure where you're going with this anymore...
but if you have a front pump, drawing from a front mount or loader frame resevoir, AW32 is fine in that tank.

If you want to define that as the 'main' pump... In NH parts terminology, you do so at your own peril.

Rod

Never mind rod you answered it sort of,good engough...

 

[SP1KERZ]

I have what I think is a 1975 Ford 4000 but I'm not sure.
This is stamped on it: 2D17B. C336048 can anyone help me with what year and model it is? I been trying to fix a top part hydraulic issue, it used to operate them started working off and on. Then it doesn't work at all now. I've pulled the top part out and was told if I cleaned the suction filter that would fix it.but the O
PTO shaft won't let me remove it. How is PTO shaft removed correctly?