Ford 8000 wet stack/thermostat question

[benterryfarm]

I have a Ford 8000 and 9700. The 8000 recently had oil (most likely diesel) coming out of the exhaust manifold. I'm familiar with wet stack, as it would always happen on my Agco 5670 while running a hydraulic wood splitter for an extended time in the winter. I'm assuming that is what is happening with my 8000 now but not 100% certain. First question is what thermostat temperature did these tractors have from the factory? CNH has listed a 168 F option as well as a 188 F (also listed as 192 F on some websites). The 168 seems ridiculously low, which leads to my second question, if indeed my tractor has that thermostat how much would switching to a 192 thermostat help my issue with oil coming out of the manifold?

 

[Bern]

According to the repair manual, the model 8000 came from the factory with a 188 degree thermostat, while the 9000 used a 168 degree one. For me, either tractor would get the hottest possible thermostat I can find. Assuming you have the 168 version, or worse yet one that's stuck open, upgrading to a hotter one should make a noticeable difference.

 

[showcrop]

I doubt that the T'stat is coming into play very much. Without a load it will probably run for hours without generating enough heat to open any thermostat, When it finally does open the cold coolant in the radiator will bring it back down to where it will take a long time to come back up.

 

[Bern]

I doubt that the T'stat is coming into play very much. Without a load it will probably run for hours without generating enough heat to open any thermostat, When it finally does open the cold coolant in the radiator will bring it back down to where it will take a long time to come back up.

I disagree. Thermostats are not simply open or closed, rather they modulate their opening dependent on the temperature. Assuming the OP is doing more than just letting it sit there and idle, a hotter thermostat should make a difference with the slobbering.

 

[Texasmark]

I have a Ford 8000 and 9700. The 8000 recently had oil (most likely diesel) coming out of the exhaust manifold. I'm familiar with wet stack, as it would always happen on my Agco 5670 while running a hydraulic wood splitter for an extended time in the winter. I'm assuming that is what is happening with my 8000 now but not 100% certain. First question is what thermostat temperature did these tractors have from the factory? CNH has listed a 168 F option as well as a 188 F (also listed as 192 F on some websites). The 168 seems ridiculously low, which leads to my second question, if indeed my tractor has that thermostat how much would switching to a 192 thermostat help my issue with oil coming out of the manifold?

Not your size but may help you decide. I bought a 1990ish 3910 (diesel I think is the only way they come) with low hours and in my acceptance routine I installed a 188* stat. That stat puts the needle right in the middle of the scale on a new instrument cluster, right at the white/red areas intersection and even when working hard it stays there. I have others that have the 168 and they put the needle about 1/4 the way across the scale and those stay there. I just figured that if I ever have a reason to touch the 3000 and 3600 they will get the 188 also.

So, will the higher temp stat cure wetstacking? Probably not, as other things are involved but it surely isn't going to hurt anything and should help your fuel economy which is really great on these little Ford diesels anyway.

 

[showcrop]

I disagree. Thermostats are not simply open or closed, rather they modulate their opening dependent on the temperature. Assuming the OP is doing more than just letting it sit there and idle, a hotter thermostat should make a difference with the slobbering.

It was my thinking that an 8000 on a wood splitter would be running at idle, and that there would be a lot of time during wood splitting that it wouldn't be moving oil against any resistance.

 

[Bern]

It was my thinking that an 8000 on a wood splitter would be running at idle, and that there would be a lot of time during wood splitting that it wouldn't be moving oil against any resistance.

If I was splitting wood using an 8000 tractor, I wouldn't get much done running it at idle. That pump only puts out 15 GPM at rated speed, and obviously far less at idle.

 

[benterryfarm]

I split wood with an AGCO 5670 (hydraulics are not much faster than an 8000) fortunately I can spare the 8000 of that task. It is interesting though that the needle on the 8000 has always been below the half way mark, even when mowing with a 10’ discbine in the summer. I’ve decided I’m going to remove the thermostat and test on the stove with a thermometer to see which one I have. Thanks for the replies!

 

[Tony Jacobs]

I have a Ford 8000 and 9700. The 8000 recently had oil (most likely diesel) coming out of the exhaust manifold. I'm familiar with wet stack, as it would always happen on my Agco 5670 while running a hydraulic wood splitter for an extended time in the winter. I'm assuming that is what is happening with my 8000 now but not 100% certain. First question is what thermostat temperature did these tractors have from the factory? CNH has listed a 168 F option as well as a 188 F (also listed as 192 F on some websites). The 168 seems ridiculously low, which leads to my second question, if indeed my tractor has that thermostat how much would switching to a 192 thermostat help my issue with oil coming out of the manifold?

First off too many variables you are not mentioning , 1) when is it is wet stacking ? 2) what are you doing with it ? 3) summer or winter ? 4) what has been done to the engine lately ? I would first check to see if the timing is set correctly first , check to see if the thermostat is hot enough , has the water pump been replaced ? Could be a poor rebuilt or even incorrect impeller causing circulation to be too fast . 99% of china parts are junk right out of the box . Correct Fan blade ? If everything is correct and it is a Winter problem only you may need to cover part of the radiator like we do on the big trucks to keep them warm . Thanks Tony

 

[Tony Jacobs]

I split wood with an AGCO 5670 (hydraulics are not much faster than an 8000) fortunately I can spare the 8000 of that task. It is interesting though that the needle on the 8000 has always been below the half way mark, even when mowing with a 10’ discbine in the summer. I’ve decided I’m going to remove the thermostat and test on the stove with a thermometer to see which one I have. Thanks for the replies!

Read my post that I posted just after you did , I think it’s more than a thermostat if you running cold in the summer . Tony

 

[showcrop]

If I was splitting wood using an 8000 tractor, I wouldn't get much done running it at idle. That pump only puts out 15 GPM at rated speed, and obviously far less at idle.

OK, how much of the time does the splitter draw the 8000 down? Your throttle lever controls only the idle. The governor controls fuel delivery, and unless the load tries to slow the engine, the governor will not increase injection. Diesels need not only RPMs but also to work in order to generate heat. Heavy trucks have very loud cooling fans. In cold weather you can drive for many hours without the fan coming on.

 

[benterryfarm]

First off too many variables you are not mentioning , 1) when is it is wet stacking ? 2) what are you doing with it ? 3) summer or winter ? 4) what has been done to the engine lately ? I would first check to see if the timing is set correctly first , check to see if the thermostat is hot enough , has the water pump been replaced ? Could be a poor rebuilt or even incorrect impeller causing circulation to be too fast . 99% of china parts are junk right out of the box . Correct Fan blade ? If everything is correct and it is a Winter problem only you may need to cover part of the radiator like we do on the big trucks to keep them warm . Thanks Tony

I had a head gasket failure (I know this is very rare on these tractors) in June of this year. Replaced the headgasket and waterpump (pump pulley was very wobbly). The tractor no longer overheats. Shortly after the the headgasket was fixed in July of this year I noticed a very small leak coming from the very front cylinder exhaust manifold. The leak went away, which was surprising to me. Then in October I used the tractor to run a grinder mixer for an hour or so and this is when I really noticed a significant leak around the exhaust manifold. I know this would be a scenario where wet stacking could occur although I had the tractor running around 1400 rpm and it was 50-60 degrees that day.

I ran it with the corn picker in November and it was still leaking. It was quite cold outside while picking the corn. Not sure how much of a load the corn picker puts on the tractor, it's a New Idea 2 row picker and I was pulling a 225 bushel wagon. The tractor continued to leak while I picked corn which took 8 hours or more of run time.

The fan appears to be original. The water pump is aftermarket, not sure of manufacturer.

I've never set timing but am willing to learn. I'm sure it would just take a little reading on this forum.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

I had a head gasket failure (I know this is very rare on these tractors) in June of this year. Replaced the headgasket and waterpump (pump pulley was very wobbly). The tractor no longer overheats. Shortly after the the headgasket was fixed in July of this year I noticed a very small leak coming from the very front cylinder exhaust manifold. The leak went away, which was surprising to me. Then in October I used the tractor to run a grinder mixer for an hour or so and this is when I really noticed a significant leak around the exhaust manifold. I know this would be a scenario where wet stacking could occur although I had the tractor running around 1400 rpm and it was 50-60 degrees that day.

I ran it with the corn picker in November and it was still leaking. It was quite cold outside while picking the corn. Not sure how much of a load the corn picker puts on the tractor, it's a New Idea 2 row picker and I was pulling a 225 bushel wagon. The tractor continued to leak while I picked corn which took 8 hours or more of run time.

The fan appears to be original. The water pump is aftermarket, not sure of manufacturer.

I've never set timing but am willing to learn. I'm sure it would just take a little reading on this forum.

Well grab a Ford service manual for your tractor and read up on setting the timing , it’s all mechanical nothing fancy . I would start there retarded timing will run cold in the summer as regards to cylinder temp not water temp . Depending on how old the injection pump is it may need a rebuild because the internal mechanical advance may not be working either or be gummed up and just not working properly . I can’t remember off the top of my head which pump you have but many of the British Injection pumps Ford used like on the 6000’s actually had an oil reservoir in them and you changed the oil at the same time you changed the engine oil . As I said grab a manual it will tell you what you need to know . Tony

 

[Bern]

Well grab a Ford service manual for your tractor and read up on setting the timing , it’s all mechanical nothing fancy . I would start there retarded timing will run cold in the summer as regards to cylinder temp not water temp . Depending on how old the injection pump is it may need a rebuild because the internal mechanical advance may not be working either or be gummed up and just not working properly . I can’t remember off the top of my head which pump you have but many of the British Injection pumps Ford used like on the 6000’s actually had an oil reservoir in them and you changed the oil at the same time you changed the engine oil . As I said grab a manual it will tell you what you need to know . Tony

There is no internal advance on those pumps - none of the inline pumps that Ford used had that feature. That said, a pump can have timing that is retarded from that of the actual timing marks if there is internal wear inside.

 

[Tony Jacobs]

There is no internal advance on those pumps - none of the inline pumps that Ford used had that feature. That said, a pump can have timing that is retarded from that of the actual timing marks if there is internal wear inside.

Hello Bern , Go to know as I had said I couldn’t remember what pump was on it so it was a generalization just to explain possible problems and where to look . Thanks Tony

 

[JLWheeler]

This post is a bit stale now, so you may have already solved the issue, but if not, have you checked the injectors? I think they go a lot longer than Ford's recommended 600hrs, but I have seen a lot that are way off opening spec, and I just worked on one that only had a single operating orifice in the tip - there should be four. A bad injector will make for poor combustion and lots of spare sooty fuel that looks a lot like wet stacking.

 

[benterryfarm]

This post is a bit stale now, so you may have already solved the issue, but if not, have you checked the injectors? I think they go a lot longer than Ford's recommended 600hrs, but I have seen a lot that are way off opening spec, and I just worked on one that only had a single operating orifice in the tip - there should be four. A bad injector will make for poor combustion and lots of spare sooty fuel that looks a lot like wet stacking.

Thanks for the response. I believe this is the issue actually. I’ve got a pop tester and going to replace all the nozzles. I haven’t done anything with the thermostat yet. It’s possible the original nozzles are in it still, the tractor only has 1900 hours.

 

[JLWheeler]

If you have a tester, you can check the spray pattern and the pop pressure. They should have four nice fine mists, and the pop should be between 2700 and 2800psi. There is a spring and adjuster under the big nut, which can adjust to get them to spec. You might have luck disassembling and cleaning if you have clogged openings, but at $50/injector sometimes it's easier to just replace. It is good practice to check the operation of new ones before installing - I have had bad ones out of the box. Use a new copper ring or anneal the old one (heat to red with a propane torch and drop in cold water).

 

[benterryfarm]

Thanks for the technical info. I’ve already watched a couple tutorials on setting them and they lined up with your advice. The only issue I’ve run into and determining what nozzles fit my tractor. I could just buy the complete injector and make it easier but I’ve found a couple sources for nozzles in the $20-$25 range (assuming they are the correct ones). The part numbers I’ve found are Delphi 5621837, as well as BDLL150S6790. It seems the same injectors fit many of the Ford tractors both large and small from that era but was told by the owner of the local Ford salvage yard that there was no way of knowing what nozzles I had without pulling one out and looking at what is stamped on the nozzle. I also called the NH dealer and was quoted $192 for one nozzle! The NH part number is D9NN9E527CA for the nozzle and that crosses with the Delphi but still no one has confirmed 100% they are the same.

 

[JLWheeler]

I have run into the issue of what injector is correct for which engine too. I think a lot of the differences in part numbers is simply that the same design has been used in a very wide array of engines and years. Each minor tweak gets a new part number, and over thirty-plus years it gets to be a lot. Most of the older versions have been superseded, so there are probably only actually a couple of types in that style. As best I can tell, you can use the same model in every non-turbo x000 series.

The numbers you get seem to be a match for the type. Not too big an outlay to find out. You will need to still do all the cleaning of the body and pressure set-up to put them in your existing bodies.