Ford 850 convert to dual clutch or live PTO

[F850]

Hello everyone.

I have a 1955 Ford 850 with a 5 speed and no live PTO.

My transmission went out and I have a 5 speed 800 series with live PTO.

Is it possible, what would it take to convert to live PTO with this other transmission?

Thank you

 

[Husker 50 8n]

I would think this should bolt in place with very few if any changes needing to be made. The 801 series had a couple changes during production such as the location of the cross shaft for the left brake pedal and the spline count on the shaft between transmission and rear end. An 800 series tractor using model 860 transmission I would think will bolt in place. Early 801 would install, late 801 would give you problems. I replaced the SOS in a model 871 with a 5 speed transmission from an early 801. That had a couple more issues with the left step and mounts as well as spline count but not anything too bad.

 

[showcrop]

No big deal. Just leave the donor transmission attached to the rear housing and swap the whole thing. You will need to take the flywheel as well.

 

[F850]

The flywheel & clutch assembly is available not the rest of the donor tractor.

Do you think I need anything else?

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 10:33:08 04/10/23)
The flywheel & clutch assembly is available not the rest of the donor tractor.

Do you think I need anything else?

You will need to go through the parts pages very carefully. The 860 PTO shaft runs from the clutch through the transmission to behind where the engagement lever is, while the 850 shaft drives off the back of the transmission. I am just finishing swapping out an SOS for a 960 five speed but I am swapping in from the rear main back.

 

[F850]

Forgive my ignorance, what is SOS?

I will look through the manual again.

Thank you

(quoted from post at 14:51:03 04/10/23)

(quoted from post at 10:33:08 04/10/23)
The flywheel & clutch assembly is available not the rest of the donor tractor.

Do you think I need anything else?

You will need to go through the parts pages very carefully. The 860 PTO shaft runs from the clutch through the transmission to behind where the engagement lever is, while the 850 shaft drives off the back of the transmission. I am just finishing swapping out an SOS for a 960 five speed but I am swapping in from the rear main back.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 14:27:37 04/10/23) Forgive my ignorance, what is SOS?

I will look through the manual again.

Thank you

(quoted from post at 14:51:03 04/10/23)

(quoted from post at 10:33:08 04/10/23)
The flywheel & clutch assembly is available not the rest of the donor tractor.

Do you think I need anything else?

You will need to go through the parts pages very carefully. The 860 PTO shaft runs from the clutch through the transmission to behind where the engagement lever is, while the 850 shaft drives off the back of the transmission. I am just finishing swapping out an SOS for a 960 five speed but I am swapping in from the rear main back.

/quote]



The SOS is another old Ford tractor transmission.

 

[Kirk-NJ]

You will also need nose cone and input shaft if your clutch
dont have double hole need one of those too. Probably a
few more things its been a while since Ive done one Easier
to just swap in the 860 trans. As Showcrop said compare
parts in the manual

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Meant to say clutch rod for double hole

 

[Ultradog MN]

Also,
You need to use the block plate that
belongs with the transmission you are
installing.

 

[F850]

(quoted from post at 01:41:21 04/11/23) You will also need nose cone and input shaft if your clutch
dont have double hole need one of those too. Probably a
few more things its been a while since Ive done one Easier
to just swap in the 860 trans. As Showcrop said compare
parts in the manual

My FO-20 Manual the best I can tell doesn't show any difference on the back of the transmission. The only difference I can see is the the split shaft for the PTO and the transmission input.

Inside the transmission I see 1-12 for the Live PTO and 14-19 for the non live PTO - Page 78. I can not identify any thing else.

I have the option to pickup the 5 speed with live PTO, clutch and flywheel but do not want to do so if I cant use it.

At the moment my transmission is dead - The output gear is shot - don't know what else is as I have only removed the shift cover and I have moderate mechanical experience but never rebuilt a manual transmission or split a tractor. Really trying to figure out if this is something I can handle or if I need to find a tractor mechanic.

 

[pomester]

This a 901 series (actually, the first picture is a 960, the rest are a 961...), but basically the same as your 800 -

I block the engine and roll the rear to split.

I built a custom table with casters to facilitate transmission movement.

There are two seals associated with the input shafts, do yourself a favor and replace both of them. Also check the condition of the needle bearings fitted inside the larger shaft.

 

[F850]

(quoted from post at 12:33:16 04/11/23) This a 901 series (actually, the first picture is a 960, the rest are a 961...), but basically the same as your 800 -

Thank you for these pictures, I think I can split it once I remove the 710 loader. Now I need to see if I can use the 5 speed with live pto or if I need to rebuilt what I have. Nice pictures.


I block the engine and roll the rear to split.

I built a custom table with casters to facilitate transmission movement.

There are two seals associated with the input shafts, do yourself a favor and replace both of them. Also check the condition of the needle bearings fitted inside the larger shaft.

 

[F850]

Okay, I have made a lot of progress but now am stuck on the tear down and want to make sure I don't bust something.

I have split the transmission from the engine. I have completely removed the floor boards, brake and clutch pedals and linkages. I have removed the PTO shaft from the rear axle and also the PTO shift plate on the left side. All fluids are drained and I have removed the bolts connecting the transmission to the rear end.

I can seem to split the rear end from the transmission. Am I missing something? I have looked over the manual twice and I don't know. Is this just 68 years of being stuck together and multiple coats of paint or ???

Thank you

(quoted from post at 12:33:16 04/11/23) This a 901 series (actually, the first picture is a 960, the rest are a 961...), but basically the same as your 800 -

I block the engine and roll the rear to split.

I built a custom table with casters to facilitate transmission movement.

There are two seals associated with the input shafts, do yourself a favor and replace both of them. Also check the condition of the needle bearings fitted inside the larger shaft.

 

[pomester]

Did you get it? It's been a few years since I did the pictured transmission overhaul and I don't remember having any issue splitting the transmission from the rear end.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 09:40:03 04/19/23) Okay, I have made a lot of progress but now am stuck on the tear down and want to make sure I don't bust something.

I have split the transmission from the engine. I have completely removed the floor boards, brake and clutch pedals and linkages. I have removed the PTO shaft from the rear axle and also the PTO shift plate on the left side. All fluids are drained and I have removed the bolts connecting the transmission to the rear end.

I can seem to split the rear end from the transmission. Am I missing something? I have looked over the manual twice and I don't know. Is this just 68 years of being stuck together and multiple coats of paint or ???

Thank you

There is a gasket in between the two cases so it is going to take force like a slim chisel or large screwdriver driven between to break them apart.

(quoted from post at 12:33:16 04/11/23) This a 901 series (actually, the first picture is a 960, the rest are a 961...), but basically the same as your 800 -

I block the engine and roll the rear to split.

I built a custom table with casters to facilitate transmission movement.

There are two seals associated with the input shafts, do yourself a favor and replace both of them. Also check the condition of the needle bearings fitted inside the larger shaft.

/quote]

 

[F850]

Thank you for checking, yes I did get it removed yesterday. Maybe not the best example but I took the back of a 8lb splitting maul and gently tapped around cases of the center section and rear of transmission and it split.

I have torn down the transmission as far as I can, the fork for the throw out bearing looks like the head of the retaining bolt is sheared off so I will have to do some work to extract it.

The input shaft bearing was totally non existent?? and the transmission output bearing was destroyed with bits of rollers and seal in the bottom of the case.

My original problem when I bought it was not staying in 3rd gear. The seller told me to replace the detent plunger which I did with no success.

The transmission started whining and grinding when I engaged the clutch and so that is why I am where I am today.

The output gear is damaged as well as the matching gear on the counter shaft so those will need replaced. My guess is that the failure of the rear bearing cause the gears to not mesh properly and damaged those.

I still do not know what to look for to fix the 3rd gear issue, the other gears look fine to the untrained eye (mine).

I have been through the FO-20 manual a dozen times and now looking at the rear of my transmission (850) and the pictures of the 860 transmission for sale, I can't see any difference or obvious reason why I can't drop it in. I have been told the PTO shaft is different but I just don't see it.

Anyway now I am searching for all the gaskets, seals and bearings required to put this back together.

Thanks again.

(quoted from post at 20:14:20 04/20/23) Did you get it? It's been a few years since I did the pictured transmission overhaul and I don't remember having any issue splitting the transmission from the rear end.

 

[pomester]

From this description it sounds like the 860 transmission is the better alternative. To repair yours you'd have to acquire gears on the used market, bearings might be available, but maybe not. The 3rd gear problem is common and often not easily remedied. Usually it is attributed to 'wear', but not ascribed to any specific part. Few NOS parts are available.

Live PTO makes for a much better tractor.