Ford Backhoe hydraulic cylinder

[krjava]

Hi everyone! In a bad hunger of any advices, Ill put this here also (in case anyone sees this same text in Youtubes "Ford a hoe" comments):

Can I take the other end of my Ford backhoes cylinder off??


I have 60 s 4500 backhoe. I was unlucky and stupid enough and got the crawl-cylinder rod to bend pretty badly. Wise move might have been to just buy a new cylinder, because in my country inch-measured repairs just dont exist. Well apparently I am not very wise man. I got a new straight rod from a local one of a kind Ford backhoe -lunatic (great guy!) and other parts (I dont know english terms to them) were made (turned) just for me. (The end price wasn t that gigantic.)
The problem is that also the tube got hit in the accident. There are few scratches inside. I planned to "JB-weld" them. Unlucky enough, the scratches are in the "deep end" of the tube. Am I able to take that end off of the tube??? It would be very much easier to do the job from that end.

At least in this pic that end seems to be unsealed:

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/new-holland-owning-operating/337363d1379476517-ford-4500-backhoe-id-forumrunner_20130917_205550-png


Thank you for your reply.

 

[Jim.ME]

I think you mean crowd cylinder, don't know of a crawl cylinder. I'm not having any luck using the link you posted to see a photo. If it is like most cylinders on backhoes the barrel end, that pins to the boom, is welded to the cylinder tube and not removable for practical purposes. That said, it was built from pieces and some shops can replace cylinder barrel tubes. A machine shop could carefully cut the end cap/pin boss off by machining the current weld out and weld prepping it. Alignment of the pin bore in relation to any hydraulic connections would need to be retained. Weld quality when reassembling is critical. If I was going through all effort that I would find a shop that could replace the barrel and not be using JB weld or such.

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[krjava]

Thank you very much for your reply. That answered perfectly to my question.

And sorry for my wrong therms, English is not my first language, you are correct: crowd cylinder was what I was meaning. And also I see I wrote opposite what I meant about the picture I linked: in that pic it
seem like the end IS sealed. The pic was from New Hollands site. And that made me suspect what you confirmed.

I know it might be the only right thing to do to get the cylinder to professionals and let them fix it. It s just that fixing the hoe is not what i am supposed to do now. I am rebuilding my house, and the
schedule is badly late already and I really need to get on with it. I thought that if I could clean the scratches well and be able to sand it properly it might do the job. I know there are some who have JB
welded scratches in the rod with good results. Although I understand that the wall of the tube is even more critical than the rod. But I still believe that if I could manage to reach and operate the scratches well I could succeed.. I don t know, I just want to dig..

 

[Jim.ME]

I would try to hone the scratched area (actually hone the entire cylinder bore) to smooth the scratches. I would not try to put JB Weld inside the cylinder. If it breaks away it could migrate through the hydraulic system and cause other problems. Hone the bore and install new packings which should last a while and may by you the time you need to make a better repair. Just curious, where are you located?

 

[krjava]

I live my life in northern Europe, small town next to Tampere in Finland to be exact.

I am not familiar at all with tractors or hydraulics (well I am, little more every day, thanks to people like you). I like to make and build things and I also like older stuff. I have become quite curious
toward heavier equipment as i have gained age. I m now on my mid 30 s. I bought my first tractor (witch is what we are talking about right now) spring this year and have build that little by little. First
thing was to find, buy and assembly the power steering, because there weren t any in my machine. I have become a conclusion that my Ford is some time ago, by some cruel individual, been doomed to be a part
donor. I?m now welding the attachment to loader (for forks etc) and changing rubber seals everywhere where there is oil leaks.

Every one of little or bigger nuts and bolts are more stuck than any nut and bolt I have ever tried to open before! Just today I spent say 3 hours opening brake rods nut - and did not get it all the way
open! Other sides rod I ended up cutting and welding back together, but on this side there is little bit more space to work (now that I removed the plate, where you keep your right leg), so I try to open it
the right way. I just basically have to do new threads to rod with the nut, because it s so rusted.

And the hydraulic cylinders main nut at the end of the tube I had to heat and hammer about two whole days before it opened..

I appreciate your thoughts about my cylinder repair very much. As I now think it the way you expressed it, I might not JB weld it. I did not think that it might cause problems in the whole hydraulic system
when failing. I just thought it might broke the new packings in some time and that that is the risk I am willing to take. But I certainly don t want cracked JB weld to go around the whole system.

The honing was also in my mind before, but what about the diameter of the tube, does it get bigger by that? Cause off course I already have the new packing and that won t work with larger tube I guess.. And
also the scratches are quite deep, so I think that alone won t be enough..

 

[krjava]

I consulted local Ford backhoe guy, and I m Honing the cylinder my self. He has done it to several cylinders, and every time with decent result. There will be scratches to stay, but no kind of that will tear
my new packing apart. Thanks again Jim.ME for changing my mind about the JB weld - It was a bad idea.

And braking news! I just, less than 5 minutes ago made a deal for a "new" 4500! It?s almost 10 years younger and with a cab and all. Now I have time to put the older one in fine condition to sell it to some
other lucky finn.

 

[Jim.ME]

As your local fellow likely explained you will not change the cylinder bore diameter enough to cause a problem by honing. You are honing to smooth it, so the sharp edges of the scratches do not cut and tear away the piston seal. You may have some leakage past the seal in those areas but it will get you going.

I was in Finland for about a week just before Christmas in December of 2000. We were going to install a new wet end on a paper machine here in Maine in the spring of 2001 and it was being built by Valmet/Metso. Two of us from the contractor went with a group of the mill's project team to see the machine during its pre-shipment assembly in the plant; in preparation for that installation. If I remember correctly it was at the plant in Jyvaskyla. It was a very enjoyable trip and the people at the plant and in the town were great.

 

[krjava]

Yes, That was excactly what he explained.

What a surprise, that you know and have
been in my little country! Jyv?skyl? is
something like 90 miles (150 kilometers)
from my home. Finns are quite polite and
quiet people until you either get to know
them very well, or give them alcohol. Well
at least stereotypical finn is like that.

Btw, I tought I should share some photos of
my machine, cause they might make this more
intetesting. Upper is my Ford cabriolet
pretty much in the shape as it is nowdays.
At the bottom it is just moments before I
had made a decision to purchase it.

 

[krjava]

Couple more random pictures:
1. Working machine
2. Result of two much power and to little
brain
3. New packing and rod centerer nut (what
was it!?

Ps. The first and second pics are not related the way it might seem to be: things went wrong with the rod while digging, not lifting.

 

[krjava]

On my mid way from neighbour town to home
with my brand new 4500! 15km to go.

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto32401.jpg"

 

[Check Break]

(quoted from post at 11:12:03 08/05/19)
3. New packing and rod centerer nut (what
was it!?

When you do not have access to an impact wrench, a 1" drive socket, 1" drive breaker bar, and a 3 meter cheater (thick wall pipe) will remove that rod nut much faster.

You will be much happier with that 4500. She looks well cared for.

 

[krjava]

Actually the rod nut was not the problem at
any cases. It opened easily in both rods (I
also changed the packing to lift(?)
cylinder)

This was the tuff nut

Yes, the newer machine seems ok.
Succesfully brought me home at least. I
haven't done any digging or liftin etc with
it yet. Some oil leaks there is, but that
is nothin surprising. And little noises
from the gearbox. Electrics (lights) are
still mystery.

 

[krjava]

(quoted from post at 17:42:41 08/06/19)

(quoted from post at 11:12:03 08/05/19)
3. New packing and rod centerer nut (what
was it!?

When you do not have access to an impact wrench, a 1" drive socket, 1" drive breaker bar, and a 3 meter cheater (thick wall pipe) will remove that rod nut much faster.

You will be much happier with that 4500. She looks well cared for.

My phone did not show your quote. By "rod centerer nut" I ment CLUTCH CENTRALIZER. The thing at the end of the tube, witch has the nut that has the seals and rod going through. Once again, my English, terms and understanding are sometimes terrible and I apologize that.

 

[Check Break]

(quoted from post at 13:33:48 08/07/19)

My phone did not show your quote. By "rod centerer nut" I ment CLUTCH CENTRALIZER. The thing at the end of the tube, witch has the nut that has the seals and rod going through. Once again, my English, terms and understanding are sometimes terrible and I apologize that.

I call that a gland nut but others call it an end cap. From your pictures, I think it would have been easier to remove the end cap if your wrench was larger. The inside curve of the wrench needs to match the outside curve of the end cap. Unfortunately, you usually have to use what you have because there is not time to look for a better tool.