Germanic 8a adjustment

[John1010c]

 

[Jim.ME]

Okay going back to what was ask earlier, I just cracked open the fitting going into the clutch. I don't have any spiting of fluid but it is a steady drip. Even with the fitting completely removed. I figure it the residual fluid still left in line.

Sounds ok, not holding pressure when released

 

[John1010c]

Sounds ok, not holding pressure when released

Not holding pressure is bad ? Did you get the picture ?

 

[John1010c]

With the line off like in the picture I pushed the control handle forward and a little bit more fluid came out but more like just speeded up the drip. When I pulled it back a stream of fluid gushes out. There could be something going on with the control. It hasn't felt right for several attempts and test. It will not travel far enough to lock into full release even with the clutch line off.

 

[JOCCO]

With the line off like in the picture I pushed the control handle forward and a little bit more fluid came out but more like just speeded up the drip. When I pulled it back a stream of fluid gushes out. There could be something going on with the control. It hasn't felt right for several attempts and test. It will not travel far enough to lock into full release even with the clutch line off.

I agree on control unit not doing what it should do. Well see what Jim says. I would even use low air pressure to see if my cylinders are working but be careful on that. Control unit in middle (usually handle up) should lock the brake cylinder. What I told Jim in that control there is very tiny passages make sure there not plugged. On that note I fixed one by enlarging the little holes

 

[JOCCO]

A little more to think about. If you have to push back on the control handle 2-3 times to make the clutch work or keep working it to clutch in. It is either leaking, needs to be bled or output issue. In your picture that center fitting some had a nozzle and cup seal. They would leak and if they got the bands wet you had a hard time pulling the cable out. (swelled bands) The cure for that was a swivel fitting but modification was needed. It was very common on log skidders. Last for years they set the bands up using a hacksaw blade in #9 and 19

 

[Jim.ME]

Not holding pressure is bad ? Did you get the picture ?

No, that it is not holding pressure in the line when the controller handle is centered is good. If it held pressure when the handle is centered, it would be keeping the cylinder extended which would hold the clutch band out into contact with the drum. No pressure, when centered, says the cylinder and controller are not causing the clutch to drag. Did you reuse the original clutch cylinder and its rod? If they are new did you compare them to the old ones to see that they are the same?

With the line unhooked, if you pull the controller handle to the rear it is sending fluid to the clutch cylinder to expand the clutch band to turn the drum. I would expect to see the line drip when it is unhooked if the master controller has fluid in it, just like a car brake line will drip when broken open and can drain a master cylinder, even if the brake pedal is not touched.

I believe I posted before that the controller does not release the brake band when winding cable in. The brake arrangement is designed such that the brake does not hold when the drum turns in the wind in direction, it automatically grips when the drum turns to pay cable out. The fact that the handle will not lock forward makes me thing the brake may be a bit too tight. As JOCCO mentioned it could be related to linkage, but I would lean towards adjustment to start.

 

[Jim.ME]

Also, the control handle is not supposed to lock to the rear. You only want the clutch winding cable in if you are pulling on the handle. Having it lock, pulling in, can be very dangerous as JOCCO mentioned in one of his posts.

The handle is only supposed to lock forward to hold the brake released so you can be off the crawler and pull cable out to make a hitch.

 

[JOCCO]

Also, the control handle is not supposed to lock to the rear. You only want the clutch winding cable in if you are pulling on the handle. Having it lock, pulling in, can be very dangerous as JOCCO mentioned in one of his posts.

The handle is only supposed to lock forward to hold the brake released so you can be off the crawler and pull cable out to make a hitch.

Jim what happened above was not the control handle locking to rear that caused the accident. it was the clutch cylinder rod came out and caused the clutch to be engaged full time. One of the other times a piece of band broke off and wedged in the clutch and drum with the shaft turning it was game over. Thats why logging I always take tranny out of gear (or other methods) when hooking up. Now the winch has now power going to it. Also seen those tractor farmi winches mess up and wrap the cable in.

 

[John1010c]

In the picture the nozzle and cup seal are new. I am planning on replacing the cup seal when we get it all figured out because I have taken it on and off soon many times. The handle was locking in the forward release position but now stops right before it breaks over to that lock position. The handle does not stay in the back position. It springs forward to the middle brake and holds as it should. I'm going to try to upload a short video of me pushing the handle forward to show what the brake is doing. It seems to be releasing the brake. I don't know why the handle won't travel a little more to reach the hold position.

 

[JOCCO]

Jim can't tell from picture but clutch band looks like very little clearance if the clutch is dragging

 

[John1010c]

In my last post I forgot to mention I don't have to pump the clutch to get it to turn. It does it right away....as info

 

[JOCCO]

In the picture the nozzle and cup seal are new. I am planning on replacing the cup seal when we get it all figured out because I have taken it on and off soon many times. The handle was locking in the forward release position but now stops right before it breaks over to that lock position. The handle does not stay in the back position. It springs forward to the middle brake and holds as it should. I'm going to try to upload a short video of me pushing the handle forward to show what the brake is doing. It seems to be releasing the brake. I don't know why the handle won't travel a little more to reach the hold position.

What is the problem now? clutch side dragging and not free spooling?

 

[John1010c]

Is it possible to upload a short video ?

 

[Jim.ME]

What is the problem now? clutch side dragging and not free spooling?

Right now, with the info at hand, if it was mine, I would say the brake is a bit too tight (handle won't lock forward). And the clutch band is dragging due to it being a new lining in a worn drum. I am thinking it is going to have to be backed off from the recommended clearance until it doesn't turn the drum Able to pass a feeler gauge the full depth of the band and completely around interface area of the drum and clutch band. The cable hooked to a load that won't move and wear it to the drum, making frequent adjustments as it stops pulling. This requires extreme care and good cable and fittings.

John1010c, what do you have for cable? Do you have a screen or other shield behind your seat?

 

[Jim.ME]

Is it possible to upload a short video ?

Yes, within the site's size limits

 

[JOCCO]

Right now, with the info at hand, if it was mine, I would say the brake is a bit too tight (handle won't lock forward). And the clutch band is dragging due to it being a new lining in a worn drum. I am thinking it is going to have to be backed off from the recommended clearance until it doesn't turn the drum Able to pass a feeler gauge the full depth of the band and completely around interface area of the drum and clutch band. The cable hooked to a load that won't move and wear it to the drum, making frequent adjustments as it stops pulling. This requires extreme care and good cable and fittings.

John1010c, what do you have for cable? Do you have a screen or other shield behind your seat?

Very good advice Jim I know there has been issues with replacement parts over the years. I thought his control box was not working, my bad

 

[Jim.ME]

Very good advice Jim I know there has been issues with replacement parts over the years. I thought his control box was not working, my bad

No problem, I've gotten twisted up a couple times during this due to the way he wrote, and I interpreted something. It happens with no one at fault as people can have the same words register differently in context and meaning when they read something.

I am thinking the new master cylinder sections he put on the controller are working ok. He installed new linings/bands for the brake and clutch. He said the drum surfaces were not turned. He has reported not being able to pass a feeler strip completely around the clutch band, the full depth of the clutch band. I am leaning towards a tapered and possibly out of round clutch surface in the drum. He could have .010 clearance between the drum and lining at the mouth of the drum and be fully in contact deeper inside the drum surface, which could drag the drum through the brake, without engaging the controller. Another possibility is the band is sprung from handling. Comparison of the wear on the old clutch band linings might give a clue. Your thoughts are welcome on what I am thinking the problem is here.

 

[John1010c]

Right now, with the info at hand, if it was mine, I would say the brake is a bit too tight (handle won't lock forward). And the clutch band is dragging due to it being a new lining in a worn drum. I am thinking it is going to have to be backed off from the recommended clearance until it doesn't turn the drum Able to pass a feeler gauge the full depth of the band and completely around interface area of the drum and clutch band. The cable hooked to a load that won't move and wear it to the drum, making frequent adjustments as it stops pulling. This requires extreme care and good cable and fittings.

John1010c, what do you have for cable? Do you have a screen or other shield behind your seat?

I bought new 5/8 cable. I do not have a screen or headache rack. I never thought to see if the brake is too tight. When we first started talking I was able to push it all the way forward and it lock. Sometime during my adjustments I noticed it not traveling fully forward. I'll back off the brake adjuster a couple turns tomorrow morning and see if it gets better. Again thank y'all so much for sticking with me on this.

 

[Jim.ME]

I bought new 5/8 cable. I do not have a screen or headache rack. I never thought to see if the brake is too tight. When we first started talking I was able to push it all the way forward and it lock. Sometime during my adjustments I noticed it not traveling fully forward. I'll back off the brake adjuster a couple turns tomorrow morning and see if it gets better. Again thank y'all so much for sticking with me on this.

Back the brake off just enough to let the handle to lock forward.

Get at least a bit of clearance all the way around and across the clutch band. I'm not giving a measurement, keep working until you can get the drum to turn by hand, with the controller handle locked forward so the brake is in free spool. At that point you can use your feeler gauges to find tight spots and get an idea of where the problem is.

5/8" cable will be good for anything you will do. I ran extra improved grade of 1/2" on my 430 with an 8A winch.