High school drop-out rate---rant

[Hay hay hay]

In 2013 the national high school drop out rate for the USA was 22%, with a few states at over 30% drop out rate. Graduating from High School is more than just book learning. It means you can get out of bed in the morning, can follow direction, can stay out of trouble, and can live by the rules. Most of all, it means you can keep your eye on the goal; stay focused, and stick with it.

When I graduated from high school, 50 years ago, a guy could drop out and still get a good job in a factory and make a decent living. When I read the discussions on this forum about electricity, and gear ratios and PTO speed and weight distribution it is obvious that it takes a lot of book smarts, and learning to do what we all do, even as a hobby. The same is true in the factories that are left in America.

When we were having the banter the other day about hiring farm laborers, lots of folks said here that these workers needed a living wage, obviously true. But don’t forget, many still have the same attitude and work habits that likely caused their situation. Unfortunately, statistics prove that many dropouts will end up on welfare, or drugs or both. In fact: 75% of all USA crime is committed by drop-outs. By the time they wake up….if ever…...many will be permanently employable only in low skill jobs?
But there are fewer and fewer low skill jobs left.

In many peoples opinion, until we can solve this high school drop out problem, we will have a permanent group of citizens relying on the nation for support. The drop out rate and the unemployment rate generally go together. Inner-cities drop out rate 50%, unemployment rate 50%. Appalachia drop out rate 25%, unemployment rate 25%

Every citizen needs to understand that our high school graduation rate is only slightly better than it was 50 years ago, and todays drop-outs are a giant ongoing financial burden for this nation.

 

[ss55]

Is the problem the lack of an education education or is it the lack of good jobs? There are a lot of educated people out of work now that have had to turn to crime to make ends meet.

I agree a good attitude and a good education make it easier to get a good job. However, as long as there are not enough jobs to go around, there will always be people out of work, and high crime.

 

[Bill(Wis)]

My grandfather's schooling was in a logging camp. That's where he grew up. He could read and write english and was well versed in all forms of the english language including Shakespeare, the Bible, and could cuss with the best of them. He could calculate compound interest in his head and new more about horses and dairy cows than anyone I ever knew. He also played the violin as a violin or a fiddle, whichever kind of music you preferred. Was pretty good with an accordian, too. I was the first member of our family to graduate from High School. That's where they tried to convince me that we should all be striving for one world government. We did autopsies on chickens, pigs, etc. and they taught us that "diversified farming" was the key to success even though my grandfather and father had changed from that to strictly dairy farming 10 years before. Most farmers had adopted a specialized approach by that time, growing whatever fit their particular environment. Potatoes in one region, corn and hogs in another, etc. The schools, in those days, seemed to be behind the times and were boring as anything. The one thing I learned in High School that helped me a great deal for a few years was how to write a good business letter. That translated into writing of all kinds. Reports, estimates, surveys, descriptions, you name it. Now, with IPhones and Emails, that has all changed. I wonder if the schools nowadays are as boring as when I attended?
Nonetheless, there are important things to be learned and attending school is one way to do it.
This reminds me of a friend who dropped out of HS in his junior year and joined the Army. They assigned him to engineer branch and he spent his hitch working on airfield maintenance in Germany. He came back and went to work for a heating and air conditioning firm in Chicago and eventually owned his own HVAC business. He's very comfortably retired now and is probably one of the wealthier members of our class.

 

[Fergienewbee]

My dad quit school in 8th grade, which would have been during the Depression. He still managed to put food on our table and a roof over our head every day we were growing up (40s and 50s.) He always had a job doing something. He drove school bus during the day and was a school janitor at night. He taught himself/learned to be a licensed electrician, was foreman overseeing building machines for Wolverine World Wide, and retired as a captain in the Army Reserves. Today it's too easy to drop out and draw welfare and food stamps or sell drugs and other criminal activity. Times have changed but so has our country and its population.

Larry

 

[rustyfarmall]

The drop out rate has just as much to do with the teachers and administrators as it does with the actual student. While it is true that some of those kids are destined for failure no matter what, it is also true that quite a few of the drop outs would remain in school IF they were being taught subjects they had a real interest for, and being taught by teachers who are there because they are truly interested in the future of the kids, instead of being there strictly for the paycheck that the teachers union claims they are entitled to.

 

[teaching science]

Rusty, I will be the first to say that there are some teachers who shouldn't teach. However, I hate it when all teachers are grouped together as a union protected bunch of non-professionals. I teach in rural Missouri. The union is uninterested in us and doen't protect us, only the larger cities get that perk. As for our teachers, I would say 95% of our staff are in it for the benefit of the kids. Our problem drop-out is from multiple problems. Our kids have an "I dont have to work for it" attitude that is fostered by our nations welfare culture. The parents of the students who drop out usually dont parent. Their kids usually run the home. Also we have added so many after school activities to keep them in school that there is not time to study and actually pass school. I cant get my students to stay for tutoring or to make up missed work becasue they have so many other after school activities competing for that time. Those are only a few of the things that comtribute, but please dont lay it all at the teachers feet. We try hard and put all kinds of extra time in to help the kids as much as we can. I love my students and want them to succeed and get good jobs. I try to instill a work ethic in them and show them the importance of a diploma and the ability to learn as a skill in itself. Sorry for the long rant but I do work hard and most of my fellow teachers here do to. Just hate to be labeled with the city schools that are a totally different situation.

Charlie

 

[mkirsch]

Even in city schools, you can't lay the blame solely at the teachers' feet.

The teachers' hands are tied when it comes to controlling their classes. If a kid wants to be rowdy and disruptive and combative, there isn't a d*mned thing the teacher can do. One kid like that is poison to a class, but there are usually several troublemakers, and more with each group as they work their way up through.

It doesn't take long for even the most optimistic naive pie-in-the-sky teacher to become cynical and start "phoning it in" in an environment like that.

The teacher isn't bad by choice. They are beaten down and literally forced to give up.

 

[rustyfarmall]

It was not my intention to lump all teachers together. I have a sister who is now retired from teaching, a niece who is just starting out in her teaching career, and a couple of daughters in law who teach. I can honestly say that all of them have the interests of the student as their first goal. All of them can also relate some real horror stories about the home life of some of their students.

 

[DaninKansas]

Back in the 1950s 60s and 70s a person would drop out of highschool to get a good paying job rather than let it get away from them. As for drop outs and crime - that's what most dropouts are quitting school for - a career in crime.

 

[Anonymous-0]

well I know I am going to get jumped on for this one but here goes: Education has become big business and that is why there is such an over-rated push for college education. When it comes to grade school and high school, I'll defend the teachers, but NOT the administration. And I further believe that the teacher's hands are fairly tied due to federal/state requirements. Education may be important but what they are being taught is critical. The age old answer of throwing money at the problem obviously is not the answer. We will always have those that drop out and those who simply cannot afford or have no desire to go to college. We need decent paying jobs for them. Kids and I do means kids because it doesn't appear the maturity level is there (does not apply to each and very one of course - but overall) are graduating college with tens of thousands of $ in debt (how wise is that)for an "education" and they still cannot get a decent paying job and move back home with their parents. The problem is very complex and will not go away because of the political ties and money to be made. Look into your own school system and learn what kinds of games are played for federal funding.

 

[GeneMO]

I think the drop out rate is the fault of parents, (or lack thereof)

In our little rural school, the drop out rate is probably 1 or 2%

In the big cities 50%+

Gene

 

[BigTone]

As a teacher I see the push towards college grow every year. Everyone thinks that if we could just get everyone into college the country would fix itself, not true, but that is the ideology in schools. If high schools have a high rate of alumni attending college then they were successful, if their test scores are good, then they were successful, but the reality is that we are pushing kids into college who probably shouldn't be there and by doing so a college degree doesn't mean what it used to. I mean, everyone has a degree but how many are working in there field after college? How many are truly qualified to enter a professional position? I went to school with teachers who had ZERO business being in a classroom, they still have that degree but are working at the local starbucks when they should have been geared towards a trade they could have been successful at. We used to have apprenticeship programs, shop class used to teach people how to build houses, now they teach you how to make a coat rack. Why aren't we offering skill building classes/opportunities for those who might be drop out candidate's? Why aren't we setting these kids up with on the job training where they can learn work ethic, what it means to work, what the value of a dollar is, and maybe even put a little cash in their pocket during the summer because they earned a part time job for all their hard work during the school year? There is no easy answer and I don't contend to have one but sometimes we need to drop the "Gum drops and lolly pops" attitude and take a good hard look at the problem, where we were, and how we get back there...~Anthony

 

[Wile E]

The big cities the dropout rate is likely much higher than listed.
I do know of a few reasons that a kid drops out of school is due to money. A kid I knew in the 1980s had to drop out because his parents were bums and could not feed him, he worked at a garage wrenching on cars. I do not know where he lived, but he was able to eat on the mechanic wage he earned. I am by no means be-littleing school but you do what you have to do to survive.
I think the parents of kids need to stay on the kid to get out of bed and do the school work and get a HS diploma like mentioned.

 

[Pops1532]

(quoted from post at 19:38:47 09/23/13) I think [b:986c228cc7]the drop out rate is the fault of parents, (or lack thereof)
[/b:986c228cc7]
In our little rural school, the drop out rate is probably 1 or 2%

In the big cities 50%+

Gene

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!
The break down of the family and values are the major cause of most of this country's problems. The government isn't interested facing that fact.

 

[teaching science]

Thanks for your follow up and congrats on your niece and daughter-in-law. We need great teachers. You are so right about the horror stories. Compared to what we saw when I was a student, I'm amazed that some of the kids even make it to school. I had a student years ago who's alcoholic step dad took a propane torch to his face because he made a little too much noise when he came home from school. We wont even talk about the drugs and abuse that exist in so many of the homes.

 

[37chief]

Going to grade school in the 50's the teachers had complete control of us kids. I never saw it, but there was the fear of the principles paddle with holes in the end so it could fly through the air very fast across the kids skinny little rear end. Let the teachers spank the kids again if needed, and return the draft, and the country will slowly turn around to what it was. Just my openion, I'm sure there are others who will not go along with mine. Stan

 

[David G]

I lived in NM where the dropout rate was 50%, and it is absolutely the parents fault.

You have to let your kids know from an early age that it is their responsibility to finish school, and get prepared for a career.

I see my customers struggling with their non-trained technicians not able to maintain the machinery. The old days are gone, like pensions, you better be prepared to do your job.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Amen!

 

[Anonymous-0]

your'e right on - again Politics!

 

[Geo-TH,In]

My sister has a PhD in early childhood developement. She says she can tell by the first grade who will make it and who will be in prison.

If Johnny can't read by the second grade, he is 10x times more likely to be in prision.

I sure there are more stats as to who will be a drop out, pregnant, welfare, ect.

 

[louis112]

There are a bunch of low skilled jobs left, just people think they are to good for them, and they dont want to work to start with. Its funny to me how Hispanics come from 2000 miles away and go right to work, and the people who live here say there are no JOBS! STRANGE!!!

 

[Pops1532]

(quoted from post at 20:51:57 09/23/13) Going to grade school in the 50's the teachers had complete control of us kids. I never saw it, but there was the fear of the principles paddle with holes in the end so it could fly through the air very fast across the kids skinny little rear end. Let the teachers spank the kids again if needed, and return the draft, and the country will slowly turn around to what it was. Just my openion, I'm sure there are others who will not go along with mine. Stan

I don't trust those in power in this country enough to reinstate the draft.

 

[oldtanker]

If you look closely a good number of kids who drop out are of higher IQ levels which leads me to believe that those drop out were bored. Some drop out because of bad parents.

But onto teachers. A friends daughter was going to set the classroom of fire. Was going to teach high school English. She did her internship and changed her major to abundant arts. She told me that the teachers at the school she interned at would sit in the break room and complain about students. And that's all they did. They hated their jobs, they hated their pay and they hated the students. I drove bus for a couple of years and got to know some of the teachers. I wasn't impressed. Of the good ones they were looking for 1 or 2 students that they could influence or inspire. What about the other 23 kids in the class? You can't teach to 2. Most of the others were failed jocks who thought they had a shot at pro sports and got a teaching degree because it was an easy degree. Now they are stuck teaching. Several were older and teaching because at the time they turned 18 attending college for a teaching degree was the only exemption to the draft and they didn't want to go to Viet Nam. Thankfully most of those were forced into early retirement in 2000/01. Are there good teachers out there? Sure there are. But there are a lot teaching who shouldn't be there.

Yea we are screwed up. I can remember in the 60's teachers in grade school pushing college on us. Telling us we didn't want manual labor jobs. They ignored that someone has to unplug the toilet and dig the ditch. Not every kid is college material. There are some people who are going to do physical labor because that's what they can do. The education system needs to figure that out.

Rick

 

[DENNIS MIN]

Big,

I, too, believe that a high-schooler being prompted towards college may have missed the chance to have said person apply themselves.

The numbers that say you'll earn more by going to college are skewed.

Which school? Which degree? Which student? How much assistance is given to those that fail to even make an effort...yet complain that the "system" failed them? I had once viewed college as a level of academia that was difficult to enter, even more so to graduate, and even more to the point, was paid for by hte individual.


D.

 

[TomH in PA]

It's not really the drop-out problem. It's a problem of people who have no business being parents continuing to breed. Don't know how to stop that though.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Why worry about an education when our government begs people to go on public assistance. Raising a child is not for the weak who just want to pop them out and walk away. The government will also give a parent extra money for popping the kids out and putting them on assistance too. It takes a lot of parental guidance, perseverance, and hard work to raise children.

 

[dr sportster]

I know a kid who dropped out and got his GED before his class graduated. He went back and showed the principal his first paystub from an electrical contractor.He joined the union then quit and went into the generator business after Sandy and made alot of money. Every time he got sleepy the school sent him for a drug test and he got sick of it. He started wiring houses at 17. It only takes five years to take the license test which he passed. He has alot of knowledge on different subjects. He also got punished for getting into a fight at 6. at night . The school said they had jurisdiction to punish him even though he had been home and changed already. He has over seven years in the trade now. Some schools can just make your life miserable.
I don't agree with it but it has worked out so far.

 

[BigTone]

I was one of the students that was told to enter a trade, I was told to be a mechanic because college was out of my leauge. I made my own decision to enter college and I earned an associates, bachelors, and masters degree all with honors but it was MY decision although sometimes I wonder how life would be different if I went to school for diesel mechanics and worked on IH tractors. It"s because of this that I tell my students to go with their heart, if they research college and feel the work, risk, reward is for them then best of luck but if they weigh their options and a trade is what they want then go for it!! A wise man just recently told me he had a degree in biology but decided to become a carpenter, 45 years later he was a millionaire. I said then you were pushed into college? He replied, Yeah, but the I just decided to become a carpenter because I loved it...Well, don"t you feel you wasted your education then I asked? No he said, I use my education every day of my life! Words to live by as far as im concerned!!! ~Anthony

 

[OH2IL]

As a recent college grad I can say that there is a big push in high school to go to college and get a degree (no matter the type of degree) whether or not the student is actually ready for college. This presents itself in the way so many use their time and parent"s money to party it up in college for a year or two then drop out with nothing but dept. It is also scary to see how many graduates in areas such as engineering and law cannot get jobs in their field today (might have something to do with how the college curriculums are taught now).

 

[RandyB(MI)]

Well now they are talkin sending in Nat Guard in Chi town and maybe big "D" to control all the shootings/crime. They've learned they need no money to shoot sperm and bullets so that's what they do until either we stop them or they take care of themselves , hopefully with no innocent bystanders. Course they won't give the Guard live ammo! That's the way we do stuff and that's why we are a laughing stock to other countries.

 

[BushogPapa]

With the things do NOT teach (Writing your own NAME without printing), and the "NO Child Left Behind" idiocy, there could not be many who could make it through a College Course..

Unless it becomes Gubberment Mandated, by Executive
Privilege (which would not surprise me).

Hey, I just wondered..do they provide TOWELS at the Border, to DRY those Wet-Backs...?????

Ron..

 

[Bret4207]

(quoted from post at 08:21:58 09/23/13) In 2013 the national high school drop out rate for the USA was 22%, with a few states at over 30% drop out rate. Graduating from High School is more than just book learning. It means you can get out of bed in the morning, can follow direction, can stay out of trouble, and can live by the rules. Most of all, it means you can keep your eye on the goal; stay focused, and stick with it.

I beg to disagree sir. A high school diploma these days means you jumped through enough hoops to get pushed out the door and little else. In my previous occupation I saw many, many COLLEGE GRADS who could neither spell, form coherent sentences, write without a computer with spell check and grammar check or read very well when it came to it. I believe claiming a HS diploma proves an educational level similar to that of 30-50 years back is just dreaming. No offense, and I agree we should have 100% of our kids finishing HS, but the diploma is proof of nothing anymore.

 

[DENNIS MIN]

Big,

The "use your education" rings loudly in my ears. I"ve been saying that for a long time. Apply yourself, in learning, and in practice.

That said, I attended a graduation in Madison Wi. There were nearly 1400 students on the grad floor, but, the number that didn"t have a yellow (arts major) tassle, well they (engineering) were a group of no more than 20, that is all told of engineering/science/technology degrees.

Too many have an "arts" major. Sorry, but that"s not going to get the best occupation around, especially when there"s several hundreds with an identical degree.

These students were told of the vast improvement in life would be getting that degree.

D.