How can you tell if a gas well is abandoned?

[Fritz Maurer]

Friend bought a tract of land with a 40x40 tin
building . After clearing some brush away we
discovered a gas well about 50 feet off the building.
The well is attached to this huge meter with 3inch
pipe, and another 3 inch pipe coming out of the
meter into the ground and disappears.
So we want to use the well to heat the building
but my friend is afraid of getting busted for stealing
gas, because the property deed, gas company
information and the actual location of the well are all
conflicting information. For instance: the number on
the well is on record, but states the well,s location is
on a neighboring lot. Second, the same google
search produced a yearly production chart, stating
that the well with this I.D. number produced over
200 MCF of gas in 2020. Both valves on the meter
are off. Wouldnt they monitor more closely a well
with that kind of output? There is a tag in the meter
box stating the meter was last serviced in 2005.
The property deed is also unclear in that it only
says the property owner has the mineral rights in
1936 when the well was drilled. Does not say
anything about transfers. The previous owner of the
land has died and can offer no information. Would
appreciate any thoughts on this matter. Thanks,
Fritz

 

[MJMJ]

If you were able to get a yearly report on the well number, you can also track down who owns the well. I dont know about your state, but here its the Dept Natural Resources thats in charge of all well related things. They would be able to figure it out. It may take a phone call or two.

 

[shaun wallace]

If in Texas the Railroad Commision would be the people to contact.

 

[TomIn]

Anything is possible. Environmental laws now require that abandoned gas wells be properly capped to prevent the release of methane (the primary component of natural gas.) Meters of that size were expensive, so they are generally removed when not being used. That being said, it is generally cheaper to just walk away from a well than it is to declare it abandoned and go to the expense of properly sealing it.

Aside from the question of who owns the well and its status, you should be concerned whether gas from the well would be suitable for heating purposes. The gas may be under hundreds of pounds of pressure and the typical residential size gas appliance requires 1/2# or less. Gas here in Indiana is generally both wet and sour (acidic). Without conditioning, the moister in the gas can freeze in the winter and the acidic content will corrode heaters in short order.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

We know that is possible the well may not be usable. To that end we are hesitant to make a bunch of phone calls and throw up a bunch of red flags and draw attention to it. They are flying drones around looking for wells to cap, for the very reason you mentioned. Never considered the quality of the gas would be bad, we were just guessing the well was spent as the reason they walked away from it. I put a gage on it and there is 250 psi, but for how long we dont know. It seems to flow enough to handle a 300,000 btu furnace. But if worse came to worse, who pays for the capping?

 

[MJMJ]

Capping money comes from the government, its a project going on now. If it really has 250 psi is has well over what is needed and is unlikely its abandoned. That being said, it could be a private well. Gas runs through what Ive always called a drip tank to separate the gas from the water/etc... The gas would be fine to use as long as thats in place, as well as a safety pancake valve of course.
A guy came through our area a couple weeks ago, searching for all gas wells on record. As long as they were still producing they arent concerned with them. Its only the ones that are dead and abandoned that they are looking to cap. He had records of wells that were drilled in the 30s, but for whatever reason didnt seem to know about mine. Its a private well, not sure if thats why or not.

 

[JMOR]

Why has no one brought up "mineral rights"??? Ought to be clear in his deed/documents.

 

[MJMJ]

(quoted from post at 17:45:57 12/18/21) Why has no one brought up "mineral rights"??? Ought to be clear in his deed/documents.

He mentioned it was unclear. But I think you are right, a little digging should provide a clearcut answer.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 16:22:23 12/18/21) We know that is possible the well may not be usable. To that end we are hesitant to make a bunch of phone calls and throw up a bunch of red flags and draw attention to it. They are flying drones around looking for wells to cap, for the very reason you mentioned. Never considered the quality of the gas would be bad, we were just guessing the well was spent as the reason they walked away from it. I put a gage on it and there is 250 psi, but for how long we dont know. It seems to flow enough to handle a 300,000 btu furnace. But if worse came to worse, who pays for the capping?

Gas wells all over WV and the farms that they were located on all received "free gas" as part of the lease terms. Trust me - if it has enough pressure to deleiver gas to you it is usable. Find out who the current operator of that well is. That will be a natter of record and easily found using the API number. for the well. They in trun will have a list iof all of the mineral rights owners.

200 MCF annually is a miniscule production and not worth the time and expense to maintain the well. But a lot of these wells are kept in operation to keep an old lease in effect. As long as the lessee is operating a "producing well" under the terms of an old lease they hold the rights to all new development on that property.

One of the properties I own a mineral interest in is incumbered by a lease executed by my great grandfather in 1890 and one lonely vertical well that produces a mere sniff of gas. The only reason that well is kept going is to keep that 100 year old lease in effect. We have been fighting with the current lessee over terms for developing the Marcellus shale under that property. WV state law requires the lessee renegotiate the terms of these ancient leases for any new production but because they hold an active lease they are the only game in town. They don't want to offer terms anywhere close in value to a modern Marcellus shale oil/gas lease and we won't agree to the century old terms. Legal log jam with the property sitting idle.

So tread lightly, find the party that currently operates the well, and talk to them about your intentions. Getting caught in the middle of a lessor/lessee dispute is not likely to be pleasant.

TOH

 

[DoubleO7]

Did you go search the other lot to see if there is another well per the location info you found?

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 18:47:38 12/rexsold 18/21)

(quoted from post at 17:45:57 12/18/21) Why has no one brought up "mineral rights"??? Ought to be clear in his deed/documents.

He mentioned it was unclear. But I think you are right, a little digging should provide a clearcut answer.

If the rights were sold it wont likely be described in his surface deed to the property. It will be in a separate deed conveying the mineral rights. Land men get paid well for that kind of title search and it can be far more than a little digging.

TOH

 

[TomIn]

Just some points to ponder from a long-retired gas utility auditor.

A typical natural gas furnace will require less than 1/4 psi to operate. The pressure regulator built into the furnace probably isn't rated for an inlet pressure of more and one psi or so. To use gas from a 250-psi source, it will require multiple pressure regulators. The typical yellow PE gas pipe you see is only rated for about 60 psi. It's not a simple task to supply a furnace with gas from a 250 psi source. Typical hardware store pipes and regulators are not rated for 250 psi.

Natural gas is colorless and odorless. The odor you smell comes from an odorant that is added for safety purposes (so that you can smell a gas leak.) If you tap into a gas well, you will not be able to smell a gas leak.

Gas furnaces are set up with orifices to accommodate a specific range of Btu value. Your local gas utility will provide gas in the proper general range. (Somewhere upstream the water vapor and inert gases are stripped from the flow as well as the higher Btu gases such as propane.) I have no idea of the Btu value of the gas from your well, but the orifices in a furnace hooked to it may need to be modified.

Gas leases typically pay a royalty interest to the owners of the gas and/or mineral rights. They also specify a payment of sorts to the owner of the surface rights (to compensate for use of the land to place equipment and have access to the well and piping for maintenance.) Somebody should be getting some $$ if the well is producing. Your friend should look into this even if he does not plan to tap into the well. Keep in mind that if the gas well was drilled in the 1930's, payments to the owner of the surface rights were probably locked in at very low rates.

Free gas was often part of gas leases, but I am not familiar with the leases going back to the 1930's. Gas heat was not common in many parts of the country until much later, and I have seen many leases that limit the free gas to use for gas lighting.

Steel gas pipe has a finite life. I would be very concerned about having pipe of an unknown age carrying 250 psi of gas on my property.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Light a match and run like hell? ; > )

Seriously, contact you local DNR or state legislation.

TPD

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 12:45:48 12/18/21) Friend bought a tract of land with a 40x40 tin
building . After clearing some brush away we
discovered a gas well about 50 feet off the building.
The well is attached to this huge meter with 3inch
pipe, and another 3 inch pipe coming out of the
meter into the ground and disappears.
So we want to use the well to heat the building
but my friend is afraid of getting busted for stealing
gas, because the property deed, gas company
information and the actual location of the well are all
conflicting information. For instance: the number on
the well is on record, but states the well,s location is
on a neighboring lot. Second, the same google
search produced a yearly production chart, stating
that the well with this I.D. number produced over
200 MCF of gas in 2020. Both valves on the meter
are off. Wouldnt they monitor more closely a well
with that kind of output? There is a tag in the meter
box stating the meter was last serviced in 2005.
The property deed is also unclear in that it only
says the property owner has the mineral rights in
1936 when the well was drilled. Does not say
anything about transfers. The previous owner of the
land has died and can offer no information. Would
appreciate any thoughts on this matter. Thanks,
Fritz

Are you sure you are looking at an actual gas well and not a meter on a pipeline? This is typical gas well of the type that populates farms in WV where U grew up.

TOH

This post was edited by TheOldHokie on 12/19/2021 at 06:52 am.

 

[Btzj02]

Natural gas that comes from a well head goes through quit a bit of processing before it is distributed for use to consumers. Like another has said the gas is refined to produce a set amount of BTUs per Standard Cubic Feet of gas delivered. One very crucial part of gas processing is the removal of water from the well gas. Up here in Minnesota even a very small amount of moisture can cause huge freeze up problems in the winter. It is an interesting conundrum but, in the long run, I think it would be worth the land owner's time to research this well and get all the facts. I know it would bother me to no end having a gas well on my property and not know all the details. Who knows, maybe the land owner is owed lease payments for the last 80 years! :wink:

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Yes thats a open, cleared area. Nothing over there.
Thats why this is confusing. The parcel number for
the property does not appear on the well output
report where they say the well is... I would think
thats a pretty important piece of information to
leave out.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:24:43 12/19/21) Who knows, maybe the land owner is owed lease payments for the last 80 years! :wink:

Not ucommon where I come from.

TOH

 

[Fritz Maurer]

No such luck. The previous owner had free gas
from the service line out by the street. The parcel
where this gas tap is, was parceled off by the
siblings when he died.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

We have more or less what you have pictured, only
everything is 3 inch. Giant meter about 15 feet
away. All valves closed.

 

[DoubleO7]

(quoted from post at 12:38:45 12/19/21) No such luck. The previous owner had free gas
from the service line out by the street. [b:11f46da26a] The parcel
where this gas tap is, was parceled off by the
siblings when he died[/b:11f46da26a].

That is likely when the location was messed up.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 21:52:29 12/18/21)

(quoted from post at 18:47:38 12/rexsold 18/21)

(quoted from post at 17:45:57 12/18/21) Why has no one brought up "mineral rights"??? Ought to be clear in his deed/documents.

He mentioned it was unclear. But I think you are right, a little digging should provide a clearcut answer.

If the rights were sold it wont likely be described in his surface deed to the property. It will be in a separate deed conveying the mineral rights. Land men get paid well for that kind of title search and it can be far more than a little digging.

TOH

ne ting you can be certain of is that such will not be dealt with uniformly across all 50 states. Properties I have purchased in Texas specify whether mineral rights are included or not. Not necessarily identifying the owner of those mineral rights....sometimes yes, sometimes no. They come thru doing geophysical testing when they want and by that I have sometimes identified the mineral rights owners.

 

[TomIn]

Where I was previously employed the owner of the property was given free gas to heat one dwelling as part of the lease (most of which were executed in the early 1960's). The leases stated that the free gas was to be unconditioned gas straight from the wells. Because it was not conditioned, it tended to cause freeze up problems during the coldest weather.

The leases had been negotiated back in the 1960's, and the terms did not require any increases in the amount of money paid to the landowner. The company did not want to renegotiate the leases, so it would send employees out to thaw the frozen meters at the landowner's homes at no charge as a good will gesture. Eventually someone realized that providing this service created problems since the employees were needed to deal with company's own cold weather issues plus there were increasing concerns about any potential liability from delivering odorless gas. The solution was to work out an arrangement with the local gas utility to provide gas to the landowners and bill the company operating the wells. I would guess that your situation may be similar. Someone in the local gas utility that provided free gas to the previous owner should be aware of the arrangement and be able to provide you with the names of the party you would need to contact. (The person answering the phone at the customer contact number ISN'T the person with the information but should be able to eventually direct you to an appropriate official.)

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:38:45 12/19/21) No such luck. The previous owner had free gas
from the service line out by the street. The parcel
where this gas tap is, was parceled off by the
siblings when he died.

If the property was subdivided what do those deeds say about mineral rights?

Once again, you need to identify the owner and operator of the rights, wells, and any surface equipment. Tampering with equipment you don't own which is likely the case here could wind up being a very bad experience.

TOH

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 12:31:03 12/19/21)

(quoted from post at 21:52:29 12/18/21)

(quoted from post at 18:47:38 12/rexsold 18/21)

(quoted from post at 17:45:57 12/18/21) Why has no one brought up "mineral rights"??? Ought to be clear in his deed/documents.

He mentioned it was unclear. But I think you are right, a little digging should provide a clearcut answer.

If the rights were sold it wont likely be described in his surface deed to the property. It will be in a separate deed conveying the mineral rights. Land men get paid well for that kind of title search and it can be far more than a little digging.

TOH

ne ting you can be certain of is that such will not be dealt with uniformly across all 50 states. Properties I have purchased in Texas specify whether mineral rights are included or not. Not necessarily identifying the owner of those mineral rights....sometimes yes, sometimes no. They come thru doing geophysical testing when they want and by that I have sometimes identified the mineral rights owners.

There is no uniformity in the same state. Here much depends on the attorney that drafts the deed. I have a chain here where grand dad sold the property but explicitly reserved the rights. Subsequent deeds simply reference the preceding deed "as conveyed to xxx by yyy and recorded in book nnn at page jjj." with no mention of mineral rights. The current owner has to chase the title backwards from his deed to grand dads assignment to discover the mineral rights were severed in 1926. Maybe current practices have changed but the old deeds I have had to research are pretty variable.

And don't even get me started on the defective title that I received when I purchased my current homesite. Bald faced lies attested and recorded in writing. I was not exactly happy when my bank discovered I only held a 80% interest.....

TOH

 

[ASEguy]

Probably not a bad idea to enlist support of an attorney.

 

[Dean]

Easements associated with the property are not abandoned by non use but must be legally abandoned, which is unlikely.

If abandoned, such documents will be recorded in the approprite records office.

Dean