How to test a block for cracks?

[ironandsteel]

I am considering major work on my Ferguson TO20 with a Continental z120. Before putting a lot of money and work into it, how can I determine if the block is sound?
If I pull the block and take to a shop that does magnaflux testing on heads, can they test it?
From visual inspection above and below, it looks fine. But I wouldn't be able to see tiny cracks.

 

[old]

Yes a block can be magnaflux and check for cracks

 

[Steve@Advance]

The common place they crack is length-wise between the bore webs on the bottom side, IMHO from freezing, not a weakness in design.

You will be able to see it and the discoloration from leaking.

To have it checked, it will need to be completely stripped and cleaned.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

When I moved to Terre Haute in 1967 every auto store had a machine shop. You could get all the machine work done to totally rebuild an engine including magnaflux. There were many different parts stores and machine shops

ZERO machine shops remain. Napa is the only auto parts still in business since 1967. Odd, Kubota Case IH has been in business since 1967 too.
We had no Autozones, no OReilly, no Advance auto in 1967.
OReilly is the only place in town that turns rotors.
Most of the time after they turn a rotor it's out of specs so I end up buying a new rotor too..

 

[ironandsteel]

I have sprayed it with kerosene from the underside get get the oil off of it, and I have not seen anything that looks like a crack, and no signs of rust.

The main reason I'm considering putting money and a lot of work into it is that it has a Sherman hi-lo transmission. It would be a fun tractor to have up and running, but unfortunately, it lacks live PTO and live hydraulics, which would be very useful to me. I'm considering selling it as-is and move on.

How rare are the Sherman hi-lo range transmissions in Fergies?

 

[rustred]

as said the block has to be stripped. then it is put in a hot caustic tank and soaked. then it will be checked for cracks with MPI .

 

[rustred]

its your call, reguardless it still should be hot tanked so all oil galleries are clean and you start on a fresh rebuild. many dont seam to
understand its big money to rebuild and engine. to spend big money requires the proper job if you want a good job.

 

[showcrop]

Don't chance wasting the time and money.Get it hot tanked and checked out. If you give your location probably someone in your area can recommend an automotive machine shop. I have four within 35 minutes here.

 

[DoubleO7]

(reply to post at 19:10:16 10/13/22)

That is because the average engine needed to be rebuilt as it neared 80k to 100k in miles.

I regularly see used vehicles down here on CL with 300k and still running well enough to drive it coast to coast.

 

[ironandsteel]

There is a good automotive machine shop 45 mins from me in Winchester VA, attached to an Advanced Auto distribution center. I'll call them.

But if I can just sell it as-is with the Sherman tranny for a good price, I'll do that. The tractor is in Northern Virginia.

This post was edited by ironandsteel on 10/13/2022 at 04:35 pm.

 

[rustred]

depends what u call a good price? i would not pay 1 k for it in that condition.

 

[Steve@Advance]

That's the way it is here, and I live in the DFW metromess!

Only a hand full of shops left. Some really bad ones that I can't see how!

Then the good ones stay swamped with circle track racers, not interested in working on anything but high performance, because that's where the money is!

All the others, you walk in with a tractor engine, they will spin you around, out the door and DON'T COME BACK!!!

 

[ironandsteel]

The shop near me happily works on tractors. When I was there last, there was a 2 cyl John Deere head that had a valve job. So, I'm lucky.
They charged me $69 to magnaflux a head- I guess that is the going rate.

This post was edited by ironandsteel on 10/13/2022 at 05:25 pm.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I used to rebuild my car and truck engines about every 100k.
Had to bore cylinders, use oversized pistons, and replace everything. Back then it would cost about $100 per cylinder.
6 cylinder $600. 8 cylinder $800.

After the front wheel drives came out, I stopped rebuilding.
Engines seemed to last longer.
Too old to turn wrenches.
In 2005 I bought my first new vehicle, buick 105K
2007 new GMC work truck, has 110k
2018 new XT5 cadillac, 55K
I'm the first and last owner.
I like driving new cars when traveling.
My older vehicles are used around town..

I bought the 2007 after I learned 2007 was the last year for the classic body.
If I learn GM isn't going to make IC cars anymore, I may buy 2 new cars and put them in a garage.

I may not live long enough for my vehicles to need rebuilt.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Is there a reason for you to think there might be a crack? Do most guys here send an engine out to be checked before rebuilding it 'just to make sure'? Somehow I would doubt it.

 

[ironandsteel]

I have no particular reason to suspect the block is cracked other than reading that they crack easily from freezing. And, the former owner was notoriously hard on any machine that he got his hands on, and it would not surprise me if he left water in it over the winter- but I see no evidence of that.

I do see evidence of overheating. The head had several hairline cracks and 2 of the exhaust seats had come loose (!).

I am inclined to hone the cylinders, put in new rings, put on a new head, and see how that works. If I detect antifreeze in the oil or vice-versa, then taking the engine back apart would not be an enormous job on this tractor.

I am working outside. If I can clean out my shop enough to get it indoors, then spitting the tractor and removing the block would be feasible.

 

[showcrop]

I had cleaned and painted a block and even had knew freeze plugs installed. I don't remember why but I decided to take it to the shop and get it checked. Two days later they called and told me I needed a replacement due to the deck being nearly rusted through. It probably would have worked for a few months or a couple thousand miles.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Here to blow George's mind again with something he's probably never heard of, but they do sell crack detection kits online.

They consist of 3-4 aerosol cans, generally a cleaner, a dye, and a developer. You clean the surface, then spray it with the dye. The dye penetrates any cracks. You clean the dye off the surface, and then spray the area with the developer. The developer reacts with the dye to make it turn a very obvious color such as red.

It's not real practical to spray the whole engine, but you could just hit some critical areas where the block would commonly crack to set your mind at ease.

 

[J. Schwiebert]

Also if it isa cast en block engine you can pressure test the block. It can be done with a dry sleeve engine too.