IH 340 Utility Grinding Gears

[militiaman11]

Hello. I've done a fair bit of searching on here about this but i'm not sure i have yet come to any resolution or path forward.

I have a new to me 1961 IH 340 utility with TA. tractor runs fine, seems to have no issues except grinding gears. perhaps this is a big issue, perhaps not. hence, why i am asking. when i push in the clutch if i wait for a second or two i can usually shift into any gear just fine, with almost no issue. but if i push in the clutch and try to shift right away i get some significant grinding. all gears work fine for driving, but i assume grinding is really not normal. some videos on youtube of 340s have some audible grinding, but again i imagine this is not normal.

the clutch goes all the way to the floor, and again i imagine this is not normal. from the same videos i mentioned it looks like the clutch travel is quite far on these, and one video showing the driver having a hard time fully depressing the clutch which is the same story for me. i almost need to stand up to get it to go all the way down full travel.

i am not sure if the TA works, as i didnt actually try it when i bought it and i currently have the brakes off so i can't drive it. will test when brakes are back on.

i have attempted to adjust the clutch, but when you reach a certain point with the adjustments the rod that connects the pedal to the clutch starts to bend when the pedal is fully depressed.

i have no idea the history of this tractor, or when the trans fluid was last changed. i was going to change the fluid to see if this would help but then my local IH/Case dealer said it sounds like a bad bearing or bad clutch and i should bring it to them. i have checked the throwout bearing by removing the inspection plate on the bottom and the bearing seems to be functioning as it should.

i'm now torn on what to do. take to the dealership or just be patient with the tractor when using and not try to shift too quickly. maybe this is just babying a problem. anyone have thoughts on this? i am happy to do anything needed, but would really love to NOT split the tractor. i'm hoping there are adjustments i can or should do. maybe the TA is causing an issue. No idea.

any help would be fantastic.

Thanks

 

[Smarten_up]

I don't know very much about your particular tractor however, I had a similar problem with my Farmall C.
Had to wait a long time for the gears to stop spinning before I could shift without grinding them.
It was suggested to me to try 90 weight gear oil in the transmission. I had to drain the transmission to replace the PTO shaft seals and pully seals so when it was time to refill I used the 90W 140 gear oil and 98% of the problem went away. Mine is a 1949 tractor, I don't need to be in a rush to change gears but the 90 weight gear oil made things much better. Try that first before going to the dealer.

 

[Janicholson]

There are no synchronizers in the tractor. They do require 10 to 15 seconds to slow down so as to not grind. That is absolutely normal. The trans fluid is about 10 wt oil and has little friction to slow the gears. once in a gear it should shift to other gears with no issues unless the clutch is released in neutral.
The clutch pedal should push down by hand for one inch, then get difficult (by hand) that is called freeplay. the clutch should go all the way to the foot plate before shifting, and be about slightly more than 1/2 way up before the tractor moves. Adjusting differently can break components.
The tractor cannot be shifted from gear to gear without stopping. The TA should be used in hi gear to start from zero mph. then shifted to direct when up to speed. no clutch is needed for that, and move the lever rapidly from TA to direct, no hesitation. Good luck, Jim

 

[Janicholson]

Not an option. The TA is operated with a sprag clutch that fails when heavy oil is used. Hytran oil or oil labeled (on the container, not the salesperson) is required for proper operation. Jim

 

[Smarten_up]

Of course you are correct regarding the TA and type of oil, the 'C' has no TA, on my previous IH 400D I used hytran ultra but never had the problem of grinding gears. I suppose it might be a clutch thing, just not adjusted properly. Just maybe he has too much water in the transmission?

 

[caterpillar guy]

I was never around but 1 TA and it was on a 300 40 years ago. Is the 340 a hydraulic operated TA or a mechanical one. IF mechanical then is there not a sequencefor adjusting the TA and the clutch something like the hydraulic ones do to make them shift without binding when out of adjustment and hard shifting. All our tractors don't have a TA and all are newer than the 340 or are bigger row crop models. 06,56,66 models.

 

[SinkholeRoad]

I have a 340 utility that does the exact same thing. The trans/hydraulic fluid is not heavy enough to slow down the gears, however it must be used. I learn to be more patient.

 

[Dieselsbest]

You just have to give everything a second to slow down. I wondered why I can shift immediately with my h and not the MTA. From what I believe they are saying is oil is heavier on H to slow it down. Learn more everyday!

 

[used red MN]

I am not sure how well ..synchronizers.. were explained, I suppose there is always a ..web search.. to help you out. Most all modern automotive manual transmissions have synchronized transmissions. That means if a gear is spinning at 200 rpm and the gear it is supposed to mate with is stopped the synchronizer for that gear uses mechanical friction to stop the gear turning 200 rpm so they mesh without grinding. Same for a gear turning 400 rpm meshing with a gear turning 200 rpm. The synchronizer can speed up the 200 rpm gear to match the speed of the one turning 400 rpm. Without an accompanying video it is very difficult to describe how this is done. Also most modern automotive transmissions actually use toothed or splined collars to shift and not actually moving gear teeth. The gear teeth in these newer transmissions are always meshed unlike those in your tractor. As was said your tractor does not have synchronizers, as was the case with many old tractors. I do not know if you have ever had a transmission open but your tractor simply slides one gear over so the teeth of the two gears mesh. If they are moving different speeds the teeth grind. So bottom line is if you wait and it shifts with minimal grinding that is all you can do. It is just the way it was made.

 

[militiaman11]

Thanks to everyone who answered. it sounds to me like maybe i'm over-thinking it and maybe i just need to be patient. seems i should probably proceed with my plan to change the hytran and make sure the clutch and TA are properly adjusted. i hope that will help. thanks again.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

You are probably overthinking it, expecting the tractor to "granny shift" like a manual transmission car or pickup truck. As previously stated, it doesn't.

You can shift on the fly but it's not a matter of pushing the clutch and jamming the stick into the next gear. It takes some finesse, knowing when to double clutch, and GENTLY feeling out the gears instead of just jamming them in.

The TA has NOTHING to do with gears grinding. What an out-of-adjustment TA clutch causes is hard shifting.

If your clutch pedal has any free pedal travel at all, AND the tractor is NOT hard to get out of gear when you stop, your adjustments are good enough.

When you let the clutch pedal out in neutral, and then push it back in, you can expect some grinding if you don't wait. If it takes an excessively long time to stop, say over 10 seconds, there may be an issue with the pilot bearing in the flywheel.

If, you push the clutch, come to a complete stop, then shift, AND it grinds at that point, you have an issue. Probably the pilot bearing in the flywheel.