Is this even legal

[john in la]

My sister sent me this picture. She has a fairly new house that she wants to have a water purifier softener installed in. The plumber cuts a hole in the drywall for access to the water line and this is what they find.

Plumber said its electric access in case you want to install a flo moen.

Is this even legal ?????

 

[Scott 730]

Not legal if it was concealed behind drywall. What is a flo moen???

 

[Steve in VA]

Not legal where I live.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

John,
That is something I would not do.
Is it legal?
Legal implies there is a law.
Are electrical codes laws?

On its own, a code is not a law that must be followed, but can be adopted into a law or included in a business contract. Each code specifies the minimum acceptable requirements for an electrical process or for the performance of the final system itself.

 

[Scott 730]

(quoted from post at 17:37:46 05/12/23) John,
That is something I would not do.
Is it legal?
Legal implies there is a law.
Are electrical codes laws?

On its own, a code is not a law that must be followed, but can be adopted into a law or included in a business contract. Each code specifies the minimum acceptable requirements for an electrical process or for the performance of the final system itself.

Huh?????

 

[old-9]

Now, a fault in that circuit would be hard to find. As a retired electrician I can attest to spending a lot of time looking for shorts and open circuits in old homes. And even in new homes, one instance was a whirlpool tub.It required a GFCI protection. After too much time we found the GFCI in a closet covered by hanging clothes. Note this house was wired by a coworker, no longer employed. Fun fun.
The National electrical code requires that ALL connection be accessible. joe

 

[john in la]

The house is 10 months old

 

[john in la]

Another question.

Could this plug be legal if the drywall guy would have installed an removable access cover.

 

[john in la]

Picture from neighbor house. His has a removable cover.

 

[Mule Meat]

It is in violation..
Section 314.29 of the National Electrical Code.. requires that all outlet boxes be accessible without removing any part of the building or structure including sheetrock..

(quoted from post at 13:57:32 05/12/23) Not legal if it was concealed behind drywall. What is a flo moen???

It is a device that measures water flow in a house. If it detects a leak or other problems. It will automatically shut off the water.

 

[john in la]

Does the code allow installing a plug inside a cabinet.

If you look at the second picture the neighbor has a door he
can open for access.

Im thinking the plug is legal it only became a violation when
the drywall guy didnt leave a hole for the door to cover.

 

[MarkB_MI]

I'm sure it's a violation of the National Electrical Code, but probably not a violation of the National Drywaller's Code, which says 'If it ain't sticking out, you can cover it up.'

 

[kcm.MN]

I cannot even fathom that this would be acceptable by code. As far as I know, there should NEVER be ANY kind of electrical connection that is hidden by drywall unless it is in an approved electrical enclosure; i.e.; a junction box with proper cover.

Two things make this illegal. One, the box that the outlet is mounted in is meant for walls, floors and ceilings where there is a need to access electric outlets. Hiding this behind drywall....just NO!

Second, the outlet has openings where plugs go to access electric supply. That makes those openings charged. Even without the water line there, that is very much wrong. But by having the water line just inches from an active outlet makes that doubly wrong.

I am assuming the electric outlet was hot. Even if not hot, it should have been labeled as not hot, or better yet should have been replaced by a proper junction box.

Your sister should be able to contact her local Codes office, show them that photo, and they could go back through their files to see 1. whether such a practice is allowed in your area, 2. if this was installed by a certified electrician, and 3. if this was passed by the electrical inspector.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. I might be correct or I might be stating something in error, but your sister should still contact her local Codes office and follow the three items just above.

 

[560Dennis]

Glad you posted this for questioning?

 

[John T]

Good morning John, hope alls well down your way, good question:

Is this even legal ????? Since it's sort of BOTH a legal and electrical question, expect a ton of opinions and responses.....

In the location and time period when I last practiced power distribution engineering pursuant to the NEC (was adopted in my jurisdiction) it is my professional (albeit long retired so no warranty) opinion THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A NEC VIOLATION as it doesn't appear to be accessible......

NOTE just because the NEC says something doesn't necessarily mean any local governing authority or jurisdiction has adopted it. IE what is LEGAL depends on local codes and ordnances IF ANY RELEVANT EXIST ??

DISCLAIMER when in doubt where fire, life safety, and possible insurance exclusions may matter, check with local professional electricians and engineers and authority as WHAT ANY OF US (me sure included) SAY HERE MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE lol

Best wishes to all here.

John T

 

[Dusty MI]

(quoted from post at 04:46:11 05/13/23) Good morning John, hope alls well down your way, good question:

Is this even legal ????? Since it's sort of BOTH a legal and electrical question, expect a ton of opinions and responses.....

In the location and time period when I last practiced power distribution engineering pursuant to the NEC (was adopted in my jurisdiction) it is my professional (albeit long retired so no warranty) opinion THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A NEC VIOLATION as it doesn't appear to be accessible......

NOTE just because the NEC says something doesn't necessarily mean any local governing authority or jurisdiction has adopted it. IE what is LEGAL depends on local codes and ordnances IF ANY RELEVANT EXIST ??

DISCLAIMER when in doubt where fire, life safety, and possible insurance exclusions may matter, check with local professional electricians and engineers and authority as WHAT ANY OF US (me sure included) SAY HERE MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE lol

Best wishes to all here.

John T

I've been retired for over 20 years, but last I knew.
An area did not have to adopt an electric code, but if they did it could not be less than the National Electric Code, NEC.

Dusty

This post was edited by Dusty MI on 05/13/2023 at 05:30 am.

 

[John T]

An area did not have to adopt an electric code,

Thats how it was when I last practiced ......I think its still true today. Chicago
has their own I think, but as you say its no less than NEC

Your sparky friend

John T

 

[dr sportster]

Better open up that box and make sure it is not backwired If so tail off and reinstall.

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 14:37:46 05/12/23) John,
That is something I would not do.
Is it legal?
Legal implies there is a law.
Are electrical codes laws?

On its own, a code is not a law that must be followed, but can be adopted into a law or included in a business contract. Each code specifies the minimum acceptable requirements for an electrical process or for the performance of the final system itself.

Building codes are laws that set minimum requirements for how structural systems, plumbing, heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC), natural gas systems and other aspects of residential and commercial buildings should be designed and constructed. In the U.S., building codes mostly fall under the purview of state and local governments.

 

[Jeff in ND]

I few years ago I gutted a porch/entry on my house. It was an add-on from maybe the 80s built w/o a permit I am sure from used materials (why?).

I found a fuse box hidden in the ceiling! The power coming into it was a very old and brittle cloth covered cable that I suspect was also used.

I had no clue about that fuse box and if a fuse had blown for whatever reason, it would have been a mystery why the porch power was dead when the main breaker was OK.

Ran a complete new feed from the breaker panel along with all the other ungrounded crap in that room.