P and R Pete
Member
I asked about my father-in-law's 450 coil getting super-hot, a week or two ago. A gas 450 12-volt with alternator. He assumed the coil burnt, because it would turn over but wouldn't even cough. He replaced the coil, with the same result, before I got on the scene. Not knowing if the two hot coils had resistors, he bought one KNOWN to have a resistor, and I pulled the wire from the center of the distributor and held it near ground, and had an underwhelming yellow spark, but at least spark was going through the coil. I went to get points and a condenser, but went from there to work. In the meantime, he kept trying, same result, coil-with-resistor got hot, wouldn't start, so he went and bought ANOTHER coil, without resistor. Next morning, I put the new points and condenser in, and it started right up.
He wasn't satisfied with that, and wanted to try the coil-with-resistor, and then we got into the mess. When he tried to turn it over, the solenoid clicked, and then nothing. Nada. Zip, zilch, zero. Put in the other coil, same thing, a click, and nothing.
After THAT, he wasn't even getting a click at the solenoid, and the ammeter was showing nothing, no movement at all.
He then assumed the solenoid was fried, and replaced that. Nothing. He then replaced the toggle switch he wired-in years ago to bypass the key... nothing. He then replaced the voltage regulator, and only the good Lord knows if he switched the leads correctly, because they weren't marked on the old regulator. When that didn't work either, he replaced the original regulator.
He then tried to recharge his battery, but it wouldn't take a charge, so he bought a new battery. Still nothing at the ammeter.
What a mess, no rhyme or reason to the part-replacement, but here's what he did next.
With the battery charger, he put the neg on the neg post of the battery, and the pos on the unattached end of the pos cable where it goes to the solenoid, using the positive cable as a 'jumper' to the battery, testing for a hidden 'short', but there was none. Then he put the charger-pos to the unattached smaller wire from the same solenoid post to the ammeter, and he had to bend the wire to do so, and the ammeter came back to life!
That implied to me that there was a problem in that smaller wire, as the insulation was cracked in spots, with bare wire showing. So he spliced in new wire and connectors where the insulation was cracked, and he's back to the solenoid clicking, but it won't turn over, but at least there's life.
I'm suspicious of ALL his wiring, and here's some pics...
The alternator...
One of the alternator wires...
Solenoid wires...many breaks in insulation...
And close-up...
Battery neg cable..
Battery pos cable..
Now, I have a college education which is doing me little good in the real world. But, I've always thought that corroded wire caused reistance-problems, and a clicking-solenoid is telling me that not enough juice is getting through to turn the 450 over, despite a new battery.
Is there anything obvious here I'm missing?
I worry that he screwed up the regulator connections, and/or, that he poked something loose when he was replacing the toggle switch- there's precious little room behind the dash- it only moves out 2 inches.
And I think we had two problems- the first was bad points, and the second being in the starting circuit.
And we have no wiring diagram.
After doing some wire-tracing, I don't see an external resistor anywhere, but how do I tell if we have "resistance-wiring"?
Would some kind stranger here throw us a bone, about what's wrong here?
A harness replacement looks daunting. Hope that's not where we're heading. I stand to inherit this baby, and maybe right soon if he decides to throw it over the hill and get himself another.
He wasn't satisfied with that, and wanted to try the coil-with-resistor, and then we got into the mess. When he tried to turn it over, the solenoid clicked, and then nothing. Nada. Zip, zilch, zero. Put in the other coil, same thing, a click, and nothing.
After THAT, he wasn't even getting a click at the solenoid, and the ammeter was showing nothing, no movement at all.
He then assumed the solenoid was fried, and replaced that. Nothing. He then replaced the toggle switch he wired-in years ago to bypass the key... nothing. He then replaced the voltage regulator, and only the good Lord knows if he switched the leads correctly, because they weren't marked on the old regulator. When that didn't work either, he replaced the original regulator.
He then tried to recharge his battery, but it wouldn't take a charge, so he bought a new battery. Still nothing at the ammeter.
What a mess, no rhyme or reason to the part-replacement, but here's what he did next.
With the battery charger, he put the neg on the neg post of the battery, and the pos on the unattached end of the pos cable where it goes to the solenoid, using the positive cable as a 'jumper' to the battery, testing for a hidden 'short', but there was none. Then he put the charger-pos to the unattached smaller wire from the same solenoid post to the ammeter, and he had to bend the wire to do so, and the ammeter came back to life!
That implied to me that there was a problem in that smaller wire, as the insulation was cracked in spots, with bare wire showing. So he spliced in new wire and connectors where the insulation was cracked, and he's back to the solenoid clicking, but it won't turn over, but at least there's life.
I'm suspicious of ALL his wiring, and here's some pics...
The alternator...
One of the alternator wires...
Solenoid wires...many breaks in insulation...
And close-up...
Battery neg cable..
Battery pos cable..
Now, I have a college education which is doing me little good in the real world. But, I've always thought that corroded wire caused reistance-problems, and a clicking-solenoid is telling me that not enough juice is getting through to turn the 450 over, despite a new battery.
Is there anything obvious here I'm missing?
I worry that he screwed up the regulator connections, and/or, that he poked something loose when he was replacing the toggle switch- there's precious little room behind the dash- it only moves out 2 inches.
And I think we had two problems- the first was bad points, and the second being in the starting circuit.
And we have no wiring diagram.
After doing some wire-tracing, I don't see an external resistor anywhere, but how do I tell if we have "resistance-wiring"?
Would some kind stranger here throw us a bone, about what's wrong here?
A harness replacement looks daunting. Hope that's not where we're heading. I stand to inherit this baby, and maybe right soon if he decides to throw it over the hill and get himself another.
