Log splitter running hot

[OldMassey44]

Yes... it won't heat up at all because even in high range it will be substantially less than your current pump.... like maybe half.... I agree w/ B E that looks like a pump off a backhoe.

I believe it is a pump off a backhoe, the cylinder is most likely off the same machine as well. My guess is someone had some parts laying around and threw together this log splitter. Now it's my project to figure out what all needs correcting

 

[caterpillar guy]

Looks like the return is going back in the tank about half way up the tank. that would allow the pump to get warmer oil than if it had to mix with the rest coming in from the bottom would mix. Also could be a cause for the froth in the tank on the cap. Though I doubt either are the source of the heat completely though would be a contributing factor. Yes the exhaust blowing on the cylinder and line would increase heat and would make probably the most difference on it. IF you have a line collapsing inside restricting flow would also make heat. IF the valve is an old worn one letting a lot of oil by the spool will also create heat. And of course a lot of little things can make it add up to a lot of heat that way.

 

[ss55]

Alright so I got my log splitter going with a 15hp engine. Used it for 30min/1hr roughly and noticed the hydraulic fluid was getting quite hot. I used a digital thermometer and it showed roughly 190F. It was quite hot outside as well but I'd like to know if that is too warm for anything. I'm open to any suggestions on how to cool this thing down a little. Any ideas for a homemade oil cooler?

Dumb question: Were the valve and hoses up-sized when the pump and engine were up-sized? If not then pushing two to three times the rated amount of oil through the valve might be a big restriction even in the neutral position, causing a big pressure drop at the valve that continually heats the oil. Check if the valve is a hot spot in the system.

Adding a second larger oil reservoir and plumbing the reservoirs in series might be the easiest way to add more cooling capacity. A fan blowing air onto a reservoir can remove a surprising of heat compared to still air. Eliminating the restrictions will help the most though.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I believe it is a pump off a backhoe, the cylinder is most likely off the same machine as well. My guess is someone had some parts laying around and threw together this log splitter. Now it's my project to figure out what all needs correcting

Lots of guessing here and very little data.

Your oil temps are high but not concerning.

if you want to make informed design decisions you need to determine the flow rating of the valve and pump. Find the model numbers if you can.

What size are the IN and OUT ports on the valve? That will give you a hint. Logsplitter valves sre typically 3/4" NPT and good for ~25 GPM.

At 3600 RPM that pump may well be running above its max rated speed.

TOH

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I flipped the hose around that goes to the rear of the cylinder so it's farther away from the engine heat, I also now see that the hydraulic fluid must be contaminated to some extent since the filler cap is full of white froth. I'm sure it would contribute to heating the fluid to some extent but could the engine possibly be sitting too close to the cylinder? What are some good ways of checking out the valve if there's any restrictions or issues? Tearing it completely apart? If I push or pull the lever any amount other than full tilt then the engine starts to sound like it's under load, if the ram is maxed out in either direction if I hold it for say 5 seconds, the engine would die. I don't think it should be that way but I'm not sure what to do about it. I'm not very familiar with hydraulics but I'm trying to learn

This is another clue that the pump it too big. The relief valve, wherever it is, cannot pass all the the oil over relief that the pump is putting out. If the maximum flow through the relief valve is less than the pump flow, the only other relief is to stall the engine or break something.

The reason the engine labors when you partially move the valve is that the force of oil going through the valve in neutral is already quite high, requiring substantial horsepower to do so.

In all hydraulic applications, It is generally desirable to load the valve slightly (which is where your engine starts to labor) to have pressure at the port of the direction desired, to help keep the cylinder from moving in the wrong direction if it is supporting a load ( not required on a log splitter). There is a point in the spool stroke where it begins to restrict the flow (that is already restricted in your case) before the port is uncovered. If the port is uncovered before pump pressure is against it, the port is open to return flow, and a heavily loaded cylinder will drop momentarily until the flow from the pump to the reservoir is sufficiently blocked/restricted/diverted to the port desired.

The exception to this rule is equipment like backhoes that have a device called a load check, which a log splitter valve does not have, to hold the boom up until the pump pressure can open the valve and further extend the cylinder without any unplanned movements.

 

[TheOldHokie]

This is another clue that the pump it too big. The relief valve, wherever it is, cannot pass all the the oil over relief that the pump is putting out. If the maximum flow through the relief valve is less than the pump flow, the only other relief is to stall the engine or break something.

The reason the engine labors when you partially move the valve is that the force of oil going through the valve in neutral is already quite high, requiring substantial horsepower to do so.

In all hydraulic applications, It is generally desirable to load the valve slightly (which is where your engine starts to labor) to have pressure at the port of the direction desired, to help keep the cylinder from moving in the wrong direction if it is supporting a load ( not required on a log splitter). There is a point in the spool stroke where it begins to restrict the flow (that is already restricted in your case) before the port is uncovered. If the port is uncovered before pump pressure is against it, the port is open to return flow, and a heavily loaded cylinder will drop momentarily until the flow from the pump to the reservoir is sufficiently blocked/restricted/diverted to the port desired.

The exception to this rule is equipment like backhoes that have a device called a load check, pop which a log splitter valve does not have, to hold the boom up until the pump pressure can open the valve and further extend the cylinder without any unplanned movements.

Or the pressure relief us simply set to high. A ltylicak og splitter spool is not designed for metering flow.. It is an on/off design with a self canceling detent.

A $15 pressure gauge eliminates a lot of speculation

TOH

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Or the pressure relief us simply set to high. A ltylicak og splitter spool is not designed for metering flow.. It is an on/off design with a self canceling detent.

A $15 pressure gauge eliminates a lot of speculation

TOH

Is that what he has on there?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Is that what he has on there?

Good question. At first glance I thought so but zooming in I think not. It looks like a DA valve with 5 ports and probably incorrectly plumbed. Only one if the work ports is being used. That looks very suspicious and I am struggling ti see how it could retract the cylinder.

Edit- no I take that back - 4 ports and whst I thought was a port is the load check.

TOH

 

[OldMassey44]

Good question. At first glance I thought so but zooming in I think not. It looks like a DA valve with 5 ports and probably incorrectly plumbed. Only one if the work ports is being used. That looks very suspicious and I am struggling ti see how it could retract the cylinder.

Edit- no I take that back - 4 ports and whst I thought was a port is the load check.

TOH

Ignore the sloppy looking hose with the hose clamp....not sure what the previous owner was thinking. I've been trying to find information on this valve but I'm not finding much online specific to cross valves

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I flipped the hose around that goes to the rear of the cylinder so it's farther away from the engine heat, I also now see that the hydraulic fluid must be contaminated to some extent since the filler cap is full of white froth. I'm sure it would contribute to heating the fluid to some extent but could the engine possibly be sitting too close to the cylinder? What are some good ways of checking out the valve if there's any restrictions or issues? Tearing it completely apart? If I push or pull the lever any amount other than full tilt then the engine starts to sound like it's under load, if the ram is maxed out in either direction if I hold it for say 5 seconds, the engine would die. I don't think it should be that way but I'm not sure what to do about it. I'm not very familiar with hydraulics but I'm trying to learn

First, 190F isn't that hot for hydraulic oil.

Second, engine heat isn't a significant factor.

Third, the white froth is inevitable. Air exchange through the vent brings in moist outside air when the system cools down, which condenses, and some emulsifies with the oil, creating a sort of "mayonnaise." That's the froth, which is ejected through the vent cap when the oil heats up. Unless the oil is heavily discolored by moisture, it's fine.

If the engine is dying when you deadhead the system, either you don't have a relief valve, or the relief valve is not adequate to handle the volume of hydraulic fluid that the gigundous pump and massive engine are flowing. Are there any numbers on the control valve to indicate what brand and model it may be?

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Ignore the sloppy looking hose with the hose clamp....not sure what the previous owner was thinking. I've been trying to find information on this valve but I'm not finding much online specific to cross valves

I can't. That hose clamp setup is no bueno. The ONLY place where a hose clamp is appropriate is on the return line from the OUT back to the reservoir. I'm surprised you haven't had that blow off in your face multiple times by now.

If that hose doesn't run to one end of the cylinder, that's one of your problems. The valve is plumbed wrong. IN should come from the pump. OUT goes back to the reservoir. A and B go to the cylinder.

 

[OldMassey44]

Dumb question: Were the valve and hoses up-sized when the pump and engine were up-sized? If not then pushing two to three times the rated amount of oil through the valve might be a big restriction even in the neutral position, causing a big pressure drop at the valve that continually heats the oil. Check if the valve is a hot spot in the system.

Adding a second larger oil reservoir and plumbing the reservoirs in series might be the easiest way to add more cooling capacity. A fan blowing air onto a reservoir can remove a surprising of heat compared to still air. Eliminating the restrictions will help the most though.

The hoses were not upsized. What size do you think they should be?

 

[OldMassey44]

I can't. That hose clamp setup is no bueno. The ONLY place where a hose clamp is appropriate is on the return line from the OUT back to the reservoir. I'm surprised you haven't had that blow off in your face multiple times by now.

If that hose doesn't run to one end of the cylinder, that's one of your problems. The valve is plumbed wrong. IN should come from the pump. OUT goes back to the reservoir. A and B go to the cylinder.

Wow wow wow, slow down friend. That hose is no longer set up that way. It was the first thing that was replaced with a real hydraulic hose. You'd have to ask the previous owner how a hose set up like that worked out for him.

 

[OldMassey44]

First, 190F isn't that hot for hydraulic oil.

Second, engine heat isn't a significant factor.

Third, the white froth is inevitable. Air exchange through the vent brings in moist outside air when the system cools down, which condenses, and some emulsifies with the oil, creating a sort of "mayonnaise." That's the froth, which is ejected through the vent cap when the oil heats up. Unless the oil is heavily discolored by moisture, it's fine.

If the engine is dying when you deadhead the system, either you don't have a relief valve, or the relief valve is not adequate to handle the volume of hydraulic fluid that the gigundous pump and massive engine are flowing. Are there any numbers on the control valve to indicate what brand and model it may be?

The brand is cross but I don't see any model numbers. I tried searching around online but I can't find specifics on any cross products that would help me figure out any information on the valve

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ignore the sloppy looking hose with the hose clamp....not sure what the previous owner was thinking. I've been trying to find information on this valve but I'm not finding much online specific to cross valves

Its an old Cross valve. The numbers on the metal tag will identify the exact model. Which hose goes to the pump?

You need to do some real testing. Buy one of these.

https://a.co/d/a0jgWlK

TOH

 

[OldMassey44]

.

 

[OldMassey44]

Its an old Cross valve. The numbers on the metal tag will identify the exact model. Which hose goes to the pump?

You need to do some real testing. Buy one of these.

https://a.co/d/a0jgWlK

TOH

I will get one the next time I'm in the city, pump is plumbed to the "in" port of the valve.

 

[OldMassey44]

Its an old Cross valve. The numbers on the metal tag will identify the exact model. Which hose goes to the pump?

You need to do some real testing. Buy one of these.

https://a.co/d/a0jgWlK

TOH

Where would you recommend installing the gauge?

 

[OldMassey44]

Its an old Cross valve. The numbers on the metal tag will identify the exact model. Which hose goes to the pump?

You need to do some real testing. Buy one of these.

https://a.co/d/a0jgWlK

TOH

1 Spool 30 GPM Double Acting Directional Valve Cross Mfg 131135 BA11AG3EA0 SBA2 | Directional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

1 Spool 30 GPM Double Acting Directional Valve Cross Mfg 131135 BA11AG3EA0 SBA2, Directional Control Valves, 1 SPOOL DOUBLE ACTING DIRECTIONALCROSS,131135,

www.surpluscenter.com

This looks almost identical, might be an updated model of the valve?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Where would you recommend installing the gauge?

Put a tee on the IN port and install the gauge in the middle leg. That will let you see a couple things. Take all measurements with oil warmed up.

1. WIth the engine at idle and valve in neutral what is the inlet pressure?
2. Increase engine speed to max. That is full flow inlet pressure
3. Shift the lever to retract and hold it there. That is relief pressure.

Dan