MF 100 Loader Spool

[62MF35Utility]

Well... I'm not surprised for as long as this thing sat that the boom spool started acting up. Out of nowhere, the boom would only go up either way you pushed the lever. The pump was struggling too... you could tell it did not like what happened. I have the Double Acting Control Valve 704 647 M92.

I have the valve body soaking in kerosene right now. But the cylinders looked flawless. I haven't pulled the check valves or poppet. But I did pull the relief valve and it's also soaking.

I didn't find any o-rings in either cylinder... part #11 on the manual. I was hoping someone can guide me here... tips, tricks, things to know.

I'll post the valve body when I get it out.

The parts manual:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BJGcGsR4xSbvn8HyLFLWMCQhqfahYEqB

https://drive.google.com/file/d/133YWp3soIGzzL4FouCNdnr0XyVCC5LDN

Overall view of the Boom and Bucket valves as they came out (boom is left) :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/12xzetcaujCkKHFfQWZ9X0BpXjVf_oPgL/view?usp=sharing

Boom Cap and Spring

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pl5MgT9Up24TiuEv0l4mVYHd3L6bHeMi/view?usp=sharing

Boom washer

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15Ohn290PfqgETay_AbTgpuqSKm6UiSr7/view?usp=sharing

Boom retaining screw

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1182P9rmAWdwDcSQ6Qibr__3yE3UaQl20/view?usp=sharing

Bucket retaining screw

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PrRGSaNtO57AMYRmoHZ7hStW9m_DjYbn/view?usp=sharing

Bucket cap... only one with significant oxidation

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TC2RHWBsruH9U5fu6J4rMsmFvrUdB8VK/view?usp=sharing

This post was edited by 62MF35Utility on 01/28/2022 at 04:31 pm.

 

[Stan Coryell]

I'm not a hydraulic guy. But, I think the O rings are dust seals. The caps look like they block the center and one is toast. My 100 spool is different, likely older. I'm not really sure what you are asking. The relief valve is in the spool. Is it full of water? Did it ever work right?

 

[Jim.ME]

The only O-rings should be right where the spool enters the valve body on the handle end. They are only to stop leakage around the spool, out of the valve. There are no O-rings down inside the body of the valve. Sealing of the spools, in the valve body bores, is a function of metal-to-metal clearance, so interchanging of parts with another valve is not a good option. The springs and retainers on the end going into the reservoir provide the spool centering for neutral on both and also locking into "float" on the boom spool. I expect if you have much for problems you will have to convert to a different valve, build a mount and do some plumbing to make it work in place of this valve.

 

[62MF35Utility]

Thanks Jim and Stan.

I read lots of other posts in various places and they say pretty much what Jim said, and some may have been Jim... hahaha

So, I am now clear on the sealing method. Jim, for further clarity, I think you are also saying the cap rust is not a factor.

I just got a set of large graphite crucibles that need some work. I am able to make a pattern and cast an adapter in alloy steel. Do you think this is something other people would want?

In the meantime, what I don't understand (I am brand new to hydraulics) is how or why a normally functioning spool operating on metal clearance sealing would have a "catastrophic" failure internally that is such a stark change. And I am sure it's just I am missing a piece of the puzzle. The reason I bring it up, is looking at these parts, I don't see it. Is there anything else I can check that might allow me to limp along until I can get the new spool up and running. I understand the function of the relief valve. But I do not understand the function of the check valves and poppet.

I am going to run out to the shop and take some pics of the valve body, for posterity...

Many thanks.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 09:28:36 01/29/22) Thanks Jim and Stan.

I read lots of other posts in various places and they say pretty much what Jim said, and some may have been Jim... hahaha

So, I am now clear on the sealing method. Jim, for further clarity, I think you are also saying the cap rust is not a factor.

I just got a set of large graphite crucibles that need some work. I am able to make a pattern and cast an adapter in alloy steel. Do you think this is something other people would want?

In the meantime, what I don't understand (I am brand new to hydraulics) is how or why a normally functioning spool operating on metal clearance sealing would have a "catastrophic" failure internally that is such a stark change. And I am sure it's just I am missing a piece of the puzzle. The reason I bring it up, is looking at these parts, I don't see it. Is there anything else I can check that might allow me to limp along until I can get the new spool up and running. I understand the function of the relief valve. But I do not understand the function of the check valves and poppet.

I am going to run out to the shop and take some pics of the valve body, for posterity...

Many thanks.

Some Scotchbrite or fine emery cloth will clean the rust off the cap. Clean things up and put it back together after being sure there are no foreign objects in the valve body. Make sure the screws holding the centering springs are tight in the spools. Try it again and see what happens. I have seen valves only move one way when the screw backed out of the spool and stopped movement to lower.

Some of the poppets and checks are supposed to release to prevent overloading a circuit if you were to hit something or if the boom puts too much power against the bucket lip when you lift in extreme cases.

Different valves will likely mount and plumb a bit different so I don't know there would be a one size fits all adapter. One would more likely need to make an adapter for a certain valve and sell them together. I expect it would be a small market. It is pretty easy to fab a mount and port for return to the reservoir with some plate and a pipe fitting or two. How many would choose buying a readymade adapter to fabbing one themselves is a big question

 

[brooktre]

Since there is no obvious catastrophic damage in the valve, it may be caused by some contamination in the system. If the problem remains when you reinstall the valve, swap hoses on the cylinder. That should let you know if the issue is in the cylinder or in the valve.

 

[62MF35Utility]

Wow, y'all are quick!

I bought one of those cheap HF borescopes the other day. I will [i:d785b26266]carefully[/i:d785b26266] take a peak inside the cylinders for anything obvious.

I cannot budge the slotted caps for the checks and poppet. I'm assuming since we are going to bail out on this valve, I am ok to leave them be???

Otherwise I'm going to proceed as you have instructed.

We got a dusting of snow overnight here in central NC. I imagine most of you are out in the Midwest and wouldn't even call this snow. My dad was born and raised in Brainerd, MN--and he told me all those snow stories when I was a kid... along with Sven, Lena and Ollie. I thought it must be paradise. I know better now. But I still read my old Paul Bunyan books to my son. And my bucket list has ice fishing on Gull Lake--one day.

Stay warm.

 

[62MF35Utility]

(quoted from post at 07:06:53 01/29/22)
Since there is no obvious catastrophic damage in the valve, it may be caused by some contamination in the system. If the problem remains when you reinstall the valve, swap hoses on the cylinder. That should let you know if the issue is in the cylinder or in the valve.

I got it working again.

I [i:8552eba26e]think[/i:8552eba26e] I've determined the cause. I super-cleaned everything... 5 gal bucket of kerosene, soak, air, soak, air. After all that, when I ran the scope down the boom cylinder, I found sludge where you might expect to find it, given the symptoms. So I took a nylon tubing brush to it. All parts were operating room clean.

I put it back together and it worked great for about 3 hours until I decided to leverage a stump out of the ground... then it went back to doing the exact same thing. As I recall yesterday, it started doing it after a somewhat hurky-jerky set of boom and bucket movements. This thing is a little "loose" with play and tends to shake to a stop. Now, I'll admit, I am not the most experienced loader operator. Ran plenty of tow motors though.

I have yet to break it down again. I'm going to let it sit overnight and see if the fluid temp is maybe a factor... although it's only running maybe 100 F, barely warm.

I found these patents that are stamped on the valve body. Just thought someone might like them.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2873762A/en

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2954051A/en

And there's another thing that's very interesting. The casting is stamped with part number 705 647 M93. Whereas an original parts manual I have shows 705 647 M92 for that right hand control. The numerical index doesn't list that M93 either. Plus the AGCO version shows the M92

This post was edited by 62MF35Utility on 01/30/2022 at 01:37 pm.

 

[Jim.ME]

Nothing unusual there. Casting numbers are not necessarily part numbers. That casting number identified the part made (cast) by the foundry. The part number was assigned to the finished component (Machining, maybe adding parts, assembling, etc.).

 

[62MF35Utility]

Hey Jim...

If I wanted to flush out the entire system, which is a mix of old and new fluid, how would I do that?

One better, If I wanted to flush and clean the hydraulics, how would I do that?

Thanks,
Tim

 

[62MF35Utility]

hi Stan!

The relief valve appears to be a-ok. The poppet and check valves as well.

Sorry for the confusion on what I am asking. If I could narrow it down to one thing... "Why has this spool decided to work, and then not work in a split second?"

 

[Stan Coryell]

2nd attempt....

I think you just have junk in your system. It was mentioned upthread to switch the hoses on your spool valve. This should determine if it's the cylinders or the spool. I suspect you have a lot crap floating around in the fluid.

The only way to know if the relief is working would be to put a guage on the pump discharge.

What is your filter situation?

On my 102, I can't get a replacement filter element. I plan on putting a spin on in the suction. Not ideal.

Mine hydraulic system was loaded with water. I have gotten a lot of it out, but not all of it. I suspect it was coming in through the vent. I replaced it with one you would find on a heating oil tank. I don't like the idea of a screw in the top of the vent.

The "tank" drain is an inch or so off the bottom. An inch of water filled sludge. I welded a coupling on the bottom, set up a transfer pump, and ran diesel through it until it was clean. As far as cleaning out the cylinders, work them like a Turkey baster. I'm on my third oil change, cheap UTF from TSC, it's almost clear.

Do not run diesel through the system!

 

[Jim.ME]

If you want to "flush and clean" the system you would need to strip every hydraulic part off it, then clean and flush each piece individually before reassembling. Stan has you covered, doing multiple oil changes is the common method. As Stan mentioned if you manually stroke the cylinders with the hoses unhooked you can get oil out of them to speed up the process.

Your loader has a front pump and separate reservoir from the tractor running gear so an inexpensive UTHF will work (One saying it meets the JD20A spec should be fine and should be fine if left in the system when you finish).

If you have a filter on the loader plan on several changes. If you don't have a filter you might want to add one rated for suction service of a gallon flow greater than the pump rating, into the suction line of the pump.

Moisture can get in through a vent, if the vent is damaged or the cap screw is loose, however being a vented system, condensation will form inside the reservoir even if no water infiltrates the reservoir through the vent. Running it long enough to get the oil hot and evaporate the water is key. Short runs which don't warm the system just increase the problem, just like condensation seen in an engine oil fill cap of engines that don't get up to temperature and run a while at temperature.

 

[62MF35Utility]

Guys, one thing about me is I will tell you when I f#$% up. I need a poop award or something.

I am absolutely embarrassed to say that the problem was the upper righthand backhoe mount was bouncing against the female quick-connect ring on the reservoir and knocking out the power beyond supply side hose. Which, of course, as you know, means the power beyond is blocked, and the pump is like, "wtf?". The backhoe is detached since its presence makes the whole machine too big to turn in the woods where I am working.

Why, you might ask, did I not notice this when I pulled the spool? Well, my normal routine would be unhooking that to make it easier to disconnect the power beyond line. When I went to turning that connection, I do recall seeing it unhooked but thought I must have done it.

I am sorry for the wild goose. But, all is not lost. I've gotten a hell of an education... and f$@%ing up is about the best way to remember something. Plus, now you guys have license to give me sh*t for, ohhhhh, a good year, Hahahah.

I am going to flush the system and add the new drain anyway since ya know it needs it. Also, add the oil drum cap.

I bought my hydro oil up at TSC a few weeks back. It's the cheapest they have, VP Racing lubricants J20A. I felt the extra power when I took her down to the drag strip. Gonna add racing stripes for an extra 10-15 hp.

Addendum:

For about a month I have been running a Killer Filter I got on Amazon, bought a four pack, with the thought I'd be flushing a bunch... hahaha. Replaces p/n: 1 752 177 M1: https://www.amazon.com/Killer-Filter-Replacement-MASSEY-FERGUSON-1752177M1/dp/B00AG6491E/

Tim

This post was edited by 62MF35Utility on 01/31/2022 at 01:23 pm.

 

[Stan Coryell]

Lol! I'm happy you got it worked out. I do
plenty of stupid things myself. Just ask
my wife....

That filter looks like a WIX 51010. The
same as the oil filter. In another thread
someone found it was a cross to the AGCO
replacement for the original sock filter.
On my housing it's not right. The pickup
tube on mine is larger at the bottom and
the 51010 doesn't cover the holes in it
(the strainer does though.) I'm not sure
that filter is enough for the volume in
the suction anyway. I'd be leery of using
it, afraid that it would suck in and end
up in little pieces circulating around. I
ordered a spin on from Zinga. It's a
screen type, better suited on the suction
in my opinion. Take a look at your
housing, it may be different than mine.
AGCO does have a replacement for the
original part number, but I haven't seen it. The 51010 filter in the picture is the engine oil filter.

 

[Stan Coryell]

This is what I ordered.