MY JUBILEE WON'T START and i'm at the end of my rope

[LouisH]

took our jubilee all apart this summer for a paint job. It hasn't started since july, when I took it apart. I put everything together (finally) over the past two weekends. It won't start!, and I'm getting a little ticked. More than a little.

It cranks just fine. Also have tried roll-starting it a couple times. Nothin'. The engine won't even catch.

fuel is getting to the carb. When you start to unscrew the little thing on the bottom, fuel comes out. I haven't messed with the carb adjusting screws at all. They're the same as when I took them off... and it ran then.

I'm almost positive that the ignition timing is good. I timed it to 8 degrees before tdc, using the method recommended in How to Restore Ford Tractors (this is one hell of a book, by the way).

There is spark getting to the spark plugs.

The spark plugs are new Champion h12's, gapped to 0.026 inches. It's a 6v electrical system, btw. The battery was new about a month before I took the tractor apart, and I recharged it a few nights ago.

Also (i hate to admit it), I tried using some Liquid Fire starting fluid. No change.

So, any suggestions? What might I be doing wrong here? It cranks like it did before i took it apart, but it. just. won't. catch.

Your assistance in helping me maintain my sanity is much appreciated. Seriously, i need help.

 

[HCooke]

Takes three things to run, Compression, correct fuel-air mix, and spark at the right time. Sounds like you have fuel and since you didn't mess with the carb I think we can assume that the misture is OK. You say you have spark. If you have suction over the mouth of the carb when cranking it should have enough compression to fire. That leaves timing. If you took the dist off during your refurbish, then I would relook at how you replaced it. Essentially bring the engine to TDC on the #1 cylinder and then replace the dist so that the rotar is pointing to the #1 post and the points are just begining to open when the flywheel is 4 degrees BTDC.

 

[Dunk]

How long is a rope?

Gassed (flooded) plugs?
If so dry them on the sparkie end with a propane torch.

It only takes a few things to make an engine run, compression, fuel, and spark at the right time.

What all did you take apart?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

First off, replace the plugs. If you flooded the engine, you fouled the plugs. No need to toss them; clean the tips w/ lacquer thinner or heat them for a few seconds w/ a propane torch.


It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. Lets start w/ spark.

There are ways to check for spark that work & ways that don't. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air, so that's why you need to use a spark plug. Or, a store bought plug checker. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running.

Crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the ammeter doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it dip? Next, get the old plug, open the gap to at least 3/16", ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the 3/16” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem.

Do you have voltage across the points when they are open? Verify the gap on the points at .025. Then, run a piece of cardstock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have a residue & old points can corrode, or get grease from the distributor cam on them. Or, you could have used a dirty feeler gauge. (I always spray mine off w/ contact cleaner.) Make sure you have voltage across the points, as in past the insulator on the side of the distributor. That is a very common failure point on sidemounts & often hard to find because it is usually an intermittent short. (If you find the short there, the Master Parts catalog lists everything you need on page 154. You can make the strip and you could also make the insulators as well. But, somethings are just easier & in the long run cheaper to buy. Get the strip, 12209, screw 350032-S, 12233 bushing & 12234 insulator & just replace it all.)


There is nothing wrong w/ using starter fluid; it doesn't foul the plugs like today's additive filled gasoline. But, propane works well also.

Post back w/ results; I'll be interested in what the problem was.
50 Tips

 

[R Geiger]

You need three things for an engine to fire. Fuel, compression, and spark at the right time.
If it does not fire with starting fluid, I would go back to the timing and double check EVERYTHING. Do not assume that anything is correct. Something is not!
Good Luck

 

[Danny in CO]

Have you checked for compression? Valves could be stuck.

Good luck,
Danny

 

[LouisH]

R geiger: i have been, but i missed something. or i don't know what to double check. That's why i'm here. (i'm also here because I ran out of daylight and I had to eat.)

Bruce: I'll grab an old plug and open 'er up to 3/16. When I am not cranking the tractor, and the key is in the run position, the amnmeter is either showing a constant discharge or not. No dippin'. When I am cranking the engine, it dips and wiggles. I haven't done anything with the points, so I'll mess around with them if i can't get it to run with any of the other tricks.

Dunk: A rope is about a month long. What all did I take apart? See the attached picture. No, i have no idea what exactly i'm doing with my hands in that picture. I'll dry out the sparkies using lacquer thinner (wait! Don't have any! does naptha work? I don't have a propane torch... would my lighter work?)

Cookie: I popped the air cleaner hose off temporarily, and i could hear greedy sucking noises. That must mean that I have compression. I'll try your retiming trick at some point when i have daylight.

Something to ponder: I hooked my timing light up to the #1 spark plug wire. It flashes when I crank the engine. That means I have spark, doesn't it?

 

[Den N Ms]

Louis,Did you have the distributor out of the engine,or the cam shaft?Did you have the spark plug wires off ,and you do not have the firing order correct? You didn't say what all you had apart and its hard for us all to guess what all you had apart.

 

[LouisH]

I had the distributor out. plug wires were off, but I'm 90% sure that I have the correct firing order (1243, with #1 being the one in front, right?)

I basically had everything off the tractor that wasn't painted red, and quite a few things that were painted red.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 20:32:57 11/08/09) I had the distributor out. plug wires were off, but I'm 90% sure that I have the correct firing order (1243, with #1 being the one in front, right?)

I basically had everything off the tractor that wasn't painted red, and quite a few things that were painted red.

I don't know the NAAs well enough to help, I don't even know if the NAA distributor turns CCW, like a 8N, 9N, or if it turns clockwise.

I will bow out gracefully....

 

[Den N Ms]

Louis,Did you get the distributor back in time with the #1 cyl on the compression stroke and top dead center? With the rotor pointing to the #1 tower on the cap.With the firing order correct at the cap.Then set the timing with a lite after you get it running.

 

[HCooke]

Louis, when your amp meter is dipping when the ignition is on and your cranking the engine, that means the points are opening and closing properly. My bet is on the timing if you removed and reinstalled the dist.

 

[Den N Ms]

The firing order is 1,2,4,3 and the dist. turns clockwise.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 21:07:05 11/08/09) The firing order is 1,2,4,3 and the dist. turns clockwise.

That was what I was thinking for an NAA.

Maybe I will remember it now.

 

[Jerry/MT]

If you have spark and fuel, then I"d suspect the timing, assuming your engine is in reasonable mechanical shape( i.e. has compression).

Are your plugs wet with fuel after trying to start? That would verify that you were getting fuel into the cylinders. Pull the center wire out of the distributor cap, hold it near a good ground and try a start. You should ave a FAT, BLUISH-WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning. If you do, it aint your ignition system that has a problem.

That leaves timing and compression.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Is the spark jumping the plugs gaps?Spark may be running up the insulators in fine lines.Fouled plugs can be cleaned in lacquer thinner.

 

[ClarkR]

I had a similar problem on my NAA a couple of years ago. I hadn't gotten the distributor reinstalled correctly and the timing was off. Below is how I finally got it installed correctly. Bring #1 Cylinder (one closest to fan) to Top Dead Center - TDC, (piston at top - I actually checked this with a piece of wire stuck down on top of the cylinder through the spark plug hole and turned slowly by hand), flywheel will be at 0 degrees in site window on bell housing. Point rotor to #1 spot (just to the left of the distributor clamp) and install distributor, ensuring the oil pump gear is lined up in bottom. Turn distributor counter clockwise until points are just beginning to break. Ensure that rotor is still pointing to where #1 wire will plug into distributor. If not, it may be off a tooth on the gear. If so pull out turn and reinstall. If it doesn’t crank, while distributor is in, move #1 to TDC, check flywheel to make sure on 0 then take off the cap and see if the rotor is pointing at #1. If not, you may need to pull out and move a tooth and reinstall. Once it cranks, adjust timing, most likely will need to advance since it should be set at 8 degrees at 450 rpm or less and you are starting at 0.

Good luck.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have a 53 also. Went plowing this weekend. We stopped and it would not start. Turned over fine, was getting gas, there was spark, but it seemed weak. My brother worked on it for 3 hours. Changed points, condenser, even coil. Still nothing. Finally he looked at the rotor. The spark was jumping down through the center of this brand new rotor. Changed the rotor, and it runs great. Good luck. I"d like to know if possible if this helps.

 

[ClarkR]

Pic of firing order in case it helps - clockwise.

 

[trucker40]

It sounds like its out of time.If it was running before you took it apart,now it wont run,either a lot of unlikely things happened or its not in time.One thing you could do is take out the number one spark plug,turn the engine until the piston is all the way to the top of its stroke.To find that put a small screwdriver in the spark plug hole and as someone turns the engine with a wrench or somehow slow,hold the screwdriver and feel when the piston stops coming up to where it goes back down then turn the other way until its at the top,there are probably some timing marks somewhere that you can line up.Then pull the cap and see where the rotor is pointing.If its pointing at number one or a little past it,as long as you are on the compression stroke(the way you find that is crank over with thumb on no 1 spark plug hole,when air blows your thumb out of spark plug hole,its compression stroke)then adjust until top of compression stroke,then see where distributor is pointing.Should be a little past number one terminal in the cap.If not,thats whats wrong.Could also be something else,but once you get that done,tell us what you find.If its not pointing just past number one on the compression stroke,you have to pull the distributor and turn it until it is when the distributor is in all the way down and bolted tight.If you would happen to be lucky enough that the rotor is a little past a post on the distributor,but not number one,you might be able to switch your number one wire to that post,run your wires in the firing order using a different position for number one,and see if it runs then.If it does then you know you need to move the distributor to get it in the right place by pulling it back out and turning it until its in the right place.Then once you get it running you could time it with your light.I dont know how much you could be off and it not run,but maybe just one tooth and for sure 2 teeth off on the distributor and it wont run probably.Half way out and it will backfire and not run probably.