Need help identifying a specific part

[jakesnake66]

The not cranking.... could be lots of things... first off ,while trying to crank it,, move the high-low lever back and forth a bit.. as there is a safety switch that needs to be activated in the middle position or neutral position... When you find the magic spot, it will then crank... This is a common problem, very very common on that model... Sometimes you even have to by pass the safety switch to get it to crank... check that and reply back... Thanks.

I will do this as soon as I get back down there. I'm hoping to go today, but it might be Sunday. I put a trickle charge on the battery last night and it's reading 12.42v today. I tend to agree that there's something non-battery related going on, such as the position of the gears or perhaps even the PTO. It's been cranking and running great since I pulled it out of the barn to get the bush-hogging done. Then I turn it off to do a little work, jump back on....nothing.

 

[jakesnake66]

Went down today and I couldn't get anything moving. No crank/turnover. The little red light on the left of the steering wheel didn't turn on. I took the battery out of my truck, and same result - nothing. No lights, no turnover...I tired 3 different sets of jumper cables....the voltage seems good. The connections are solid. It simply won't turn over. I love this old tractor, but I'm almost to the point where I'll just give it away and go into debt to have something I can rely on. The only guy in the area who works on these tractors is backed up 2 months. I need a tractor payment as much as I need an STD....but life is too short to spend untold hours milking a 60 year old tractor. If you're in the North Mississippi area, come get it.

 

[Keith Williams]

Went down today and I couldn't get anything moving. No crank/turnover. The little red light on the left of the steering wheel didn't turn on. I took the battery out of my truck, and same result - nothing. No lights, no turnover...I tired 3 different sets of jumper cables....the voltage seems good. The connections are solid. It simply won't turn over. I love this old tractor, but I'm almost to the point where I'll just give it away and go into debt to have something I can rely on. The only guy in the area who works on these tractors is backed up 2 months. I need a tractor payment as much as I need an STD....but life is too short to spend untold hours milking a 60 year old tractor. If you're in the North Mississippi area, come get it.

I have felt like throwing in the towel a couple times in the last few years too.

Let's all try to help a little to get you back up and running.

On a Ford tractor of that era, the only lock out, is the tranny lock out. Nothing about the PTO or anything else.
It can be bypassed. My 4600 is bypassed now, it was bypassed when I purchased it, so I can start it in gear and if I am not careful, run myself over and get KILLED.
SO, WARNING, make sure it is out of gear and best practice is to only start when seated ON the tractor with the clutch depressed.

There are many ways to start that tractor that do not rely on the key switch.
You can even buy a remote start cable/switch. I have never had to do that, so I am not qualified to tell you how.

I hope someone else can help.
Keith

 

[jakesnake66]

Thanks, Keith...and everyone who lends help to me. Let me summarize. The tractor was cranking perfectly for the last 4-5 bush-hogging and disking I'd done. I went down the other day, and it started great (without me sitting on the tractor seat). I cut for about two hours and then turned it off to move some logs out of the way. Came back about 20 min later and the tractor showed no signs of life. I thought, "there's no way this is another bad battery." I hooked up 2-3 different sets of jumper cables to my truck...nothing. I removed the battery and took it home. It measured 12.7 volts. Still, I trickle charged it for several hours. Took the battery back the next day....nothing. I triple-checked the connections. All good. Then I took the batter out of my truck and installed into the tractor...no change. I took everyone's advice about searching for the "sweet spot" of the hi-lo and confirmed the gears were in neutral. I took some pics. I have idea if these will be helpful or not.

 

[Jim.ME]

First make sure the tractor is out of gear. Find the starter solenoid/relay and see if it has battery power to it on one large terminal. If it does use a jumper wire to try putting battery power to the small terminal and see if the solenoid engages. If it does you have a wiring issue between the switch and the solenoid. If it doesn't, try using a jumper cable to put + Battery power direct on the large solenoid terminal that the cable going to the starter hooks to. If that makes it crank the solenoid is likely bad. If it doesn't crank it is likely the starter is bad, or the ground cable or connection is not good. One of those things should make something happen, then you can work from there.

 

[Hacke]

 

[paul]

Thanks, Keith...and everyone who lends help to me. Let me summarize. The tractor was cranking perfectly for the last 4-5 bush-hogging and disking I'd done. I went down the other day, and it started great (without me sitting on the tractor seat). I cut for about two hours and then turned it off to move some logs out of the way. Came back about 20 min later and the tractor showed no signs of life. I thought, "there's no way this is another bad battery." I hooked up 2-3 different sets of jumper cables to my truck...nothing. I removed the battery and took it home. It measured 12.7 volts. Still, I trickle charged it for several hours. Took the battery back the next day....nothing. I triple-checked the connections. All good. Then I took the batter out of my truck and installed into the tractor...no change. I took everyone's advice about searching for the "sweet spot" of the hi-lo and confirmed the gears were in neutral. I took some pics. I have idea if these will be helpful or not.

So. Do you have a multimeter? You told us the voltage so I’m guessing you can use one, know how.

Check how far down the path the electricity is flowing. Key switch, safety switch, starter…..

Somewhere a switch or wire or starter component is dead. Battery cables have looked ok to me, and the insides under the insulation turned to dust, stopped working.

Being a diesel you have a lot less that can go wrong.

Branch or strong weed caught a wire, the key switch gave up, the starter gave up.

All relatively easy to fix, just need to break it down to small segments, and check along the way. Little bits.

I know how you feel, I look at the whole thing and get overwhelmed on diagnosing also.

Just make it small pieces, does this wire connect from end to end, does electricity pass through this switch, etc. small pieces.

Paul

 

[jakesnake66]

Thank you Paul. Yes, I use a volt-meter every day in my job (IT admin). The problem I'm having is tracing the ignition/electrical path with no schematic or experience with this tractor. But I think I can follow your directions. Thank you so much.

 

[jakesnake66]

View attachment 112293

Thank you for this.

 

[jakesnake66]

First make sure the tractor is out of gear. Find the starter solenoid/relay and see if it has battery power to it on one large terminal. If it does use a jumper wire to try putting battery power to the small terminal and see if the solenoid engages. If it does you have a wiring issue between the switch and the solenoid. If it doesn't, try using a jumper cable to put + Battery power direct on the large solenoid terminal that the cable going to the starter hooks to. If that makes it crank the solenoid is likely bad. If it doesn't crank it is likely the starter is bad, or the ground cable or connection is not good. One of those things should make something happen, then you can work from there.

Funny you mention the solenoid. I have a Polaris 4 wheeler acting exactly the same and I traced it to a bad solenoid.

 

[Hacke]

I attached a PDF showing the wiring as it was from factory.

A quick way to check the generator is described below:

 

[Mnethercutt]

I'm more of a step-by-step guy and wanted to give you a detailed rundown that might help you as you work through troubleshooting. Much of what I'm going to say here has already been said by other posters, I'm just putting it in more of a 'service manual' format if you will. Follow these steps in order and you should be able to figure out where the problem lies.

Section 1: Starter Voltage Checks
NOTE: All sections will require a volt meter.

1. Ensure that the tractor is in neutral with the parking brake set and STOP cable pulled out.
2. Check that the top post on the starter solenoid is receiving 12+ volts from the battery.

a. If 12+ volts is not present, battery or battery cable is defective or has bad connections. Verify battery voltage and clean battery cable connections and try again. If problem persists with good battery voltage and clean, solid connections, replace cable. If problem persists, report back with findings.​

b. If 12+ volts is present, proceed to step 3.​

3. Disconnect the small wire from the solenoid tabs (see picture from Hacke). Connect the positive connector from your volt meter to the end of the disconnected wire and the negative end to a good ground. Turn and hold the key switch to the start position. There should be 12+ volts present with the switch held.

a. If 12+ volts is not present, proceed to Section 2.​

b. If 12+ volts is present, proceed to step 4.​

4. Source a 3-4 foot jumper wire. With the key in the OFF position and the STOP cable pulled out, connect one end of the jumper wire to the positive terminal of the battery and the other end to the solenoid terminal tab. Note that there may be small sparks when this connection is made.

a. If the starter engages and spins over the engine, clean wire connections on the starter solenoid wire, reconnect, and try starting normally.​

b. If the starter does not engage proceed to step 5.​

5. Using an INSULATED, thick screwdriver, carefully bridge the top and negative starter posts (items 1 and 4 in Hecke's picture). Be prepared that this will generate a significant amount of sparks and should only be done for a few seconds.

a. If the starter engages and spins the engine over, the starter solenoid is faulty or has bad connections. Clean connections and re-attempt step 4 or replace starter solenoid.​

b. If the starter does not spin the engine over and there are no sparks when the connection is made, starter is faulty and should be taken to a service shop for further testing or replaced.​

c. If the starter does not spin the engine over but there are sparks when the connection is made, something else is causing issues (could be a number of things I won't expand into in a single post). Post back with your findings for additional guidance.​

​

Section 2: Wiring Checks

1. Remove cowling around the steering column and dash so that you are able to easily access the key switch and connected wiring.
2. Identify if you have a 3-position or 5-position key switch. The 3-position switch will have an off, run, and spring-detent start position. The 5-position switch should have an aux, off, run, spring-detent glow plug/thermostart, and spring-detent start position.
3. Referencing page 2 of the wiring diagram that Hacke posted, identify the wires connected to the key switch. Label the switch or the wires by writing numbers on the switch with a grease pen or wrapping tape around each wire then labeling the tape.
4. Carefully remove the hot wire from the switch (item 10) being sure not to allow the wire end to make contact with any grounds to avoid sparks.
5. With a volt meter set to DC mode, check that the wire is supplying 12+ volts.

a. If 12+ volts are present, proceed to step 6.​

b. If 12+ volts are not present, proceed to Section 3.​

6. Remove all wires from the key switch. Ensure that wires are marked for later reassembly.
7. Set volt meter to continuity mode. Connect one end of the volt meter to the hot wire terminal on the key switch, and the other to the starter terminal (item 8 in Hacke's diagram). Turn the switch and hold the key in the start position. Verify that there is continuity between the two terminals.

a. If continuity is good, proceed to step 8.​

b. If there is no or poor continuity, clean terminals and re-attempt test. If test still fails, key switch is faulty. Replace key switch.​

8. Connect one of your volt meter leads to the starter solenoid wire from the key switch, and the other to the starter solenoid wire at the starter. Ensure that the tractor is in neutral and check for continuity through the wire.

a. If there is no continuity, the neutral start switch has failed or is faulty. Try wiggling the shifters around to see if you can get continuity. Replace or bypass neutral start switch.​

b. If there is continuity, reassemble and attempt to start the tractor. If tractor starts, your neutral start switch may still be faulty but it managed to get into a good position for the test. Recommend replacing switch or bypassying anyway. If tractor still does not start and there is continuity, report findings and we will go from there.​

c. If results are intermittent or inconclusive, try the steps in Section 3.​

​

Section 3: Supplemental Wiring Checks

Some tractors are equipped with additional equipment that, when faulty, can cause the symptoms you're describing. To completely rule out these systems, conduct the following steps:
1. Disconnect the hot wire from the key switch as described in Section 2 item 4.
2. Run a jumper wire directly from the battery positive terminal to the key switch hot terminal.
3. Attempt to start the tractor.

a. If tractor starts, wiring between battery and key switch is faulty. This can be caused by old, worn wiring, corrosion, a faulty fuse, or if equipped, a faulty battery shutoff switch. Post back with results for more instructions.​

b. If tractor still will not start, post back with a detailed list of the results of each previous step so we can try and give you more instructions.​

​

Hope this can help! Use the wiring diagrams posted above!

 

[jakesnake66]

So. Do you have a multimeter? You told us the voltage so I’m guessing you can use one, know how.

Check how far down the path the electricity is flowing. Key switch, safety switch, starter…..

Somewhere a switch or wire or starter component is dead. Battery cables have looked ok to me, and the insides under the insulation turned to dust, stopped working.

Being a diesel you have a lot less that can go wrong.

Branch or strong weed caught a wire, the key switch gave up, the starter gave up.

All relatively easy to fix, just need to break it down to small segments, and check along the way. Little bits.

I know how you feel, I look at the whole thing and get overwhelmed on diagnosing also.

Just make it small pieces, does this wire connect from end to end, does electricity pass through this switch, etc. small pieces.

Paul

Went to the farm today. Tractor wouldn't turn over. So I used a large screwdriver and shorted across the solenoid lugs....it fired up instantly. I got a lot of work done. So....what does that tell us? I'm thinking the line from the key switch is bad.

 

[ET]

Went to the farm today. Tractor wouldn't turn over. So I used a large screwdriver and shorted across the solenoid lugs....it fired up instantly. I got a lot of work done. So....what does that tell us? I'm thinking the line from the key switch is bad.

Locate the wiring to the neutral saftey switch. Unplug the switch and install a jumper wire to bypass the switch. Be sure the tractor is in neutral and see if it starts. If it starts you need a new saftey switch.

 

[Jim.ME]

Went to the farm today. Tractor wouldn't turn over. So I used a large screwdriver and shorted across the solenoid lugs....it fired up instantly. I got a lot of work done. So....what does that tell us? I'm thinking the line from the key switch is bad.

Did you short between the two big lugs or from the battery stud to the small terminal the wire from the switch hooks to?

Possibilities:

Wrong/bad solenoid
Wiring issue between the key switch and solenoid
The key switch itself
No power to the key switch

Start by seeing if the key sends power to the solenoid when you turn the key to start.

 

[showcrop]

I count five suggestions so far to try bypassing the neutral safety switch.

 

[jakesnake66]

Locate the wiring to the neutral saftey switch. Unplug the switch and install a jumper wire to bypass the switch. Be sure the tractor is in neutral and see if it starts. If it starts you need a new saftey switch.

Thank you. Is there a schematic online that you're aware of? Also, I assume the neutral safety switch resides between the key and the solenoid? So you're suggesting bypassing the neutral safety switch directly to the solenoid?

 

[jakesnake66]

Did you short between the two big lugs or from the battery stud to the small terminal the wire from the switch hooks to?

Possibilities:

Wrong/bad solenoid
Wiring issue between the key switch and solenoid
The key switch itself
No power to the key switch

Start by seeing if the key sends power to the solenoid when you turn the key to start.

Excellent question, and to be honest...I don't know. I had poor visibility; I was frustrated; so I stuck the screwdriver on the end of the solenoid, got a spark, and the tractor started. I know that's not super wise or very scientific. A buddy of mine told me to "definitely" start by shorting from the battery stud to the small terminal. I have to admit I don't know if I did or not. When that diesel engine turned over I just held on and it started like a champ. I was able to bush hog 5 acres. If I haven't said so, for a long time I've had to fiddle with the key to get it to start. The key doesn't fit tight. It's very loose, and if I don't get it inserted just right it won't crank. Only this week has it failed completely.

 

[Jim.ME]

Thank you. Is there a schematic online that you're aware of? Also, I assume the neutral safety switch resides between the key and the solenoid? So you're suggesting bypassing the neutral safety switch directly to the solenoid?

Here is a link to a pdf copy the Ford service manual for several Ford 1965 to 1975 tractor models, including the 3000 model. It has wiring diagrams in it. You will have to download it to view it. I suggest saving a copy it as you will likely find other info that might be helpful in the future.

Ford Tractor service manual 1965 to 1975

 

[jakesnake66]

Here is a link to a pdf copy the Ford service manual for several Ford 1965 to 1975 tractor models, including the 3000 model. It has wiring diagrams in it. You will have to download it to view it. I suggest saving a copy it as you will likely find other info that might be helpful in the future.

Ford Tractor service manual 1965 to 1975

Wow, thank you! That will come in handy for many things. I really appreciate it.