No spark in my 8n

Biffer5

Member
My 8n stopped running about two months ago and I assumed it was the distributor and coil since the spark plug showed no spark. Not knowing better I never put a tester on the coil to see. So now i have put in a brand new distributor and coil and still no spark. The tester on the coil shows power and it flashes when I turn the motor over. The spark plug wires are two years old and I put in new plugs. I put the tester on the distributor where the spark plug wire comes out but no power. Should there be? Could I have put the distributor/coil on wrong?

To make the scenerio even stranger I have discovered that my key has somehow gotten reversed and when "off" the power is on and when "on" the power is off. I'm now wonderi9ng if that was my original problem. Any help/advise would be greatly appreciated. m
 
Sorry, I should have given the specifics. 1948 8n. Front mount. I did just solve the "reversed key" problem. In trying to solve the problem i had removed the battery and then put it back in backwards. I'm surprised it even worked.

I took the wire off the coil and put one end of the tester on the wire and one on the coil and got a flashing light when i turned the motor over.

Yes, I have a multimeter.
 
It's probably something way more complicated than this, but are you sure that you have a good, fully-charged battery installed? In addition, is the grounding good?
 
First............

See tip # 23. You reversed the battery polarity, so you need to polarize the generator for it to charge.

Reversing the polarity has nothing to do with no spark.

Get out your meter and check the battery voltage at the battery. It should be 6.35 volts. If not, put a charger on it. At 6.00 volts, it's dead.

Then, check the voltage at the coil. Battery voltage, points open, about half that, points closed.

Post back w/ results.
75 Tips
 
Work your way through the circuit until you find battery voltage. Chances are you have a gummed up ignition switch. Or a rusty connection somewhere. Or, you can
run a jumper wire from the battery to the coil and bypass everything in between.
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 14:48:15 03/14/22) Work your way through the circuit until you find battery voltage. Chances are you have a gummed up ignition switch. Or a rusty connection somewhere. Or, you can
run a jumper wire from the battery to the coil and bypass everything in between.
75 Tips

So, I'm a mechanical novice. Is the 5.45 at the coil not what it should be? If so would that keep the spark plugs from sparking? If I ran a jumper cable from the battery to the coil bypassing the resistor block wouldnt that burn out the coil?
 
Coil will be just fine as long as you don't leave it hooked up very long. If doing a hot wire get it running then you have a point o work back from to find the problem. Running it 5 minutes ht wired will not hurt the coil
 
(quoted from post at 15:44:45 03/14/22) Coil will be just fine as long as you don't leave it hooked up very long. If doing a hot wire get it running then you have a point o work back from to find the problem. Running it 5 minutes ht wired will not hurt the coil

So should the multimeter be reading 6.35 at the coil? If not would that be the reason I'm getting no spark?
 
Yes to both questions.

I guess you didn't see my previous post:

Get out your meter and check the battery voltage at the battery. It should be 6.35 volts. If not, put a charger on it. At 6.00 volts, it's dead.

Then, check the voltage at the coil. Battery voltage, points open, about half that, points closed.

Post back w/ results.
75 Tips
 
Biffer5, evidently Bruce (VA) missed YOUR post stating the voltage readings. Just do the bypass test and let him know the results.
 
(quoted from post at 10:05:53 03/15/22) Biffer5, evidently Bruce (VA) missed YOUR post stating the voltage readings. Just do the bypass test and let him know the results.

Bruce and Jim,

As you suggested I worked up from the battery with the meter. Here is what I found... I have 6.35 volts up to and through the ignition switch. But when i put the meter on the resistor block where the ignition wire connects it drops to 5.35. I took the wire off the block and it reads 6.35 but the moment i touch it to the resistor it drops down to 5.35. Have not had a chance to do the bypass test. That's next. But does this mean my resistor is bad? Just replaced it two years ago.
 
If you don't take the wire off the coil and make sure it is not grounded that reading could be correct. In and open circuit as in the wire off the coil you would read battery voltage but hook up if the points are close the reading will be lower then battery voltage
 

Should I take the wire off the coil and try it?

I just ran a jumper from the battery to the coil and turned it over. Still no spark.
 
Well, I just took the wire off the coil and tested it... 6.35.

So now I'm guessing I'm back to the distributor/coil? I just bought them and put them on. Could I have done it wrong? Is there a way to test the distributor without having to take it off?
 
Are you 100% sure you have the plug wires on in the correct order?? If your off you will not see spark at the plug wires due to the rotor not being at that point in the cap. A simple test even a child can do it this. Take a hot wire from the battery to the coil and touch it on and off a number of times. If the points are closed you should see a small spark. If you see the spark double check that you have the plug wires on correctly
 
The first thing you need to check is for battery voltage at the coil. Yes, you need a meter for that, not a light. With the key on, you should see battery
voltage ( 6.35 v) with the points open and about half that with the points closed. If you do not see either, the problem is between the battery and the coil,
e.g., the resistor, ignition switch or a bad connection.

So, you just did that and you have battery voltage at the coil.

That's means the problem is in the distributor. Take it off and put it on the bench.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok (*see below), & that you have correct voltage to the coil , the most common reasons for no spark or a weak
spark on the front distributor are below. Check each one carefully. Even if you find a problem, check all 10:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it's fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure
it still works) If you need to replace the insulator, use a .250 x 3/8 nylon square nylon anchor nut available at most big box home stores.

2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly
contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the pig tail; a 6 volt coil will be around 1 ohm & a 12
volt coil should be 2 to 3 ohms.

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks) .

4. The distributor is not grounded to the block because of paint or grease acting as an insulator. Or the points plate is covered in oil.

5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No
contact = no spark.) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the tab; you should see about 6k ohms.

6. A grounding issue inside the distributor: Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip
goes between 7 & 9 o'clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o'clock) or the condenser wire is grounding
to the plate or side of the distributor.

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or
stick some cardboard under the bail).

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* *see below). If you are using quality
points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be
replaced. (*** see below) If the tractor has been sitting unused for a few months, its highly likely that the points are glazed. Dress them with brown paper or
card stock. Do NOT use a file or sandpaper. That removes the thin metallic coating on the surface and reduces point life considerably. With the points closed,
you should have continuity between them; high resistance means they are glazed.

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap. Brass dust in the cap is a sure sign of bushing wear.

Setting the points and timing on a front distributor is a challenge for one simple reason: its a mechanical process dependent on the skill of the user. The
nnalert Tractor jig removes the mechanical guess-work from the process. Attach the jig, turn the adjusting marker. If the light comes on at 35* BTDC and
goes off at 0*, your points and timing are dead on. Any other readings will require you to readjust the point gap and/or reset the timing by moving the plate.
Call nnalert Tractor (440)437-5572 to order the jig. ( phone orders only) Regular price, $80, limited time $5 discount gets you the jig for $75 if you
mention the promo code of FBJIG.


After find the problem & re-check the point gap, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your
meter/light works.

With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have
continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate
the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should
have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no
continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil
misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a 'no spark' problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to
match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the
engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes
line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

* Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move. The tracks should not
be wallowed out.

** NAPA part numbers:

. Points: FD-6769X or ECH CS35

. Condenser: FD-71 or ECH FA200

. Rotor: FD-104 or ECH FA 300

. Cap: FD-126 or ECH FA 350




** Distributor cam lube NAPA:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHML1

*** There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front & 18-12132 rear). Press out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this unless
you have a press & know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate will cost
you $30. Resist the temptation to buy a new plate; most are pot metal and the threads will wallow out about the third time you change the points.

2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a local machine shop
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 12:05:25 03/15/22) Yes I marked them with tape. I also just checked the diagram and they are correct.

I took the distributor off and showed it to a mechanic friend. Apparently i had not put the coil on top properly. The spring was not sitting in right. All that said... I got a spark and the tractor started for around a minute. She backfired and smoked and stalled. For the next half hour I worked on her figuring she was flooded. She would kick and almost start. Now... after around an hour she has no spark again. What the hell??

This post was edited by Biffer5 on 03/16/2022 at 11:37 am.
 
(quoted from post at 12:35:48 03/16/22) Biffer5,Did you happen to levee the ignition switch on did you?

I had it on the whole time I was trying to start it. Why? Have I burned out my brand new coil?
 
I had it on the whole time I was trying to start it. Why? Have I burned out my brand new coil?[/quote]

If it was on for half hour or so first check the points for burnt contacts.Clean them if not to bad or replace them and reset the gap,then check for spark again.
 
(quoted from post at 12:56:52 03/16/22) I had it on the whole time I was trying to start it. Why? Have I burned out my brand new coil?

If it was on for half hour or so first check the points for burnt contacts.Clean them if not to bad or replace them and reset the gap,then check for spark again.[/quote]

The points look pretty dark. There is somthing I do not like about this new distributor. It's really, really hard to turn. My old one turns easily with my fingers but this one I practically have to take plyers to. I have a tune up kit and I'm thinking i may just go on and put new points and condensor in my old distributor.
 
Biffer5, I'm thinking i may just go on and put new points and condensor in my old distributor.

That's exactly what I would do, put good quality new points in it as a original distributor is much better quality than a new China junk one.
 
(quoted from post at 13:40:20 03/16/22) Biffer5, I'm thinking i may just go on and put new points and condensor in my old distributor.

That's exactly what I would do, put good quality new points in it as a original distributor is much better quality than a new China junk one.

I was looking online and someone said that when you put the distributor back on you should remember exactly where the rotor was pointing and put it on in the same place. I think i may have lost the mark. Is it important to do that and if so is there any way i can tell where to set the rotor?
 
On a front mount distributor they only fit one way unless you force it on and then most of the tiem you break the distributor
 
(quoted from post at 15:55:16 03/16/22) On a front mount distributor they only fit one way unless you force it on and then most of the tiem you break the distributor

OK, good to know. The distributor is all put together so I'll give it a go tomorrow.
 
(quoted from post at 19:25:05 03/16/22)
(quoted from post at 15:55:16 03/16/22) On a front mount distributor they only fit one way unless you force it on and then most of the tiem you break the distributor

OK, good to know. The distributor is all put together so I'll give it a go tomorrow.
on't pay any attention to anything in this picture except.....to note that slot in center of cam gear is NOT centered. It is offset to one side. Get it wrong and tighten distributor bolts and as Old said, probably break distributor housing.
piPaRTn.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 16:47:58 03/16/22)
(quoted from post at 19:25:05 03/16/22)
(quoted from post at 15:55:16 03/16/22) On a front mount distributor they only fit one way unless you force it on and then most of the tiem you break the distributor

OK, good to know. The distributor is all put together so I'll give it a go tomorrow.
on't pay any attention to anything in this picture except.....to note that slot in center of cam gear is NOT centered. It is offset to one side. Get it wrong and tighten distributor bolts and as Old said, probably break distributor housing.
piPaRTn.jpg

Thanks
 
Just a follow up and thank you for helping me. It's nice to know this forum is here when 8n disaster strikes as it always seems to...

I tried putting new points in my old distributor and felt I had done everything right but still no spark. So I ended up cleaning the points on my new distributor and setting them. They were so close i really don't think there was any gap at all. That's how it came from the store.

Anyway, finally got old Rosie started and she is running really well.

So thanks again.
 

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