O.T. for Gun Guru

[JerryS]

G.G. (and any others):

For some time now I've had a hankering for a 1911 .45. I'm no gun expert; don't even do a lot of shooting---I just like guns for some wierd reason, and I have several.

Went to the gun store last week and the only thing in my price range was a Springfield Armory G.I. edition (made in Brazil; that sucks).

I figured that if I was going to be burning up ammo to get used to the feel of the gun, it might as well be cheap ammo. I picked up a box of Wolf, a steel cartridge made in Russia. About half the price of the good brass stuff.

On just my third shot the spent cartridge did not complete its ejection; got lodged in the port. Went back to the store and expressed my opinion that when squeeze the trigger on a pistol you kinda want it to fire, like every time. The gunsmith got kinda irritated, and told me that the .45 was not intended to use steel cases, and that this was just Russian-made junk.

I allowed as to how the Russians know a thing or two about firearms and munitions. I pointed out that I got the ammo off of his shelf. I also expressed a concern that if my new pistol was going to be that finicky about what it eats I may have made a mistake. I wondered aloud if the tolerances on this gun were so tight, how would it behave when it gets dirty, and the ammo I put in it might have tarnished in my closet after a time.

They traded me up (even) to a box of MagTechs and promised to take the gun back within the next 30 days or so if I'm not happy, so I can't complain there.

Just wanted your take on how critical the ammo selection is on a gun like this. Thanks.

 

[molinebob]

I have never had any or heard any of any good luck with the wolf ammo. It has jammed up in every auto gun that i have owned,I absoulutely hate it! Spend the money on good stuff, no complaints then.. Bob

 

[Anonymous-0]

Wolf is not good. Check out Winchester's white 100rd. box at WallyWorld.

 

[oldtanker]

Jerry, the Springfield 1911 has a good reputation. So I would suspect the ammo. I'm shooting a Rock Island right now. I bought it on price point. I've been very impressed! I got a few thousand rounds through it with no trouble. I reload and only use brass cases. So far it's been fed FMJ ball, hard lead ball, wad cutters and my concealed carry round, JHP.

Rick

 

[Anonymous-0]

I've fired a lot of wolf ammo, but there's a reason all (or nearly all) quality ammo is made from brass. Some 1911 handle it some won't.

Russians make their weapons with more tolerances to accept shoddy ammo, they rely on volley fire to take out a target.

 

[Goose]

I have a Springfield mil spec 1911A .45, and it's been flawless. Not one single jam, ever. And I've put a bunch of ammo through it.

But, I've never shot any Wolf ammo in it. Mostly Remington and UMC.

It's interesting how some pistols prefer one brand of ammo. I have a 9mm pistol that is flawless shooting Remington ammo. If I load it with Winchester ammo, I can guarantee it will jam on the last round every time.

 

[Tony in Mass.]

I'm not guru, but I read this anyway, sorry. you are right, its doubtfull the ammo is the blame. And you are right, Russian and Chinese ammo is sometimes more likely to go off, not tack driving accurate, but go off when you pull the trigger. I had an Auto Ordinance- the tommy gun people, a 'general officer' short barrel 45. Would only take round nose hard ball in stainless cases. I traded that thing off after awhile. Semi autos stovepipe, can't tell where or when. That's why the world still makes revolvers...

 

[BushogPapa]

The 1911 .45 cal. has been around for 100 years and needs some changes to be made for it to use anything other than "Ball" ammunition...
I have no idea what model you purchased and what type projectiles you are shooting..Ball or Hollow Point..?
The ejection port needs opened and the Barrel throat needs opened for Hollow Point ammunition..
The Russian ammo may not be up to normal pressures and that could have caused the Stove-Pipe.
I have an American made AMT that I like very much (Stainless) that is reasonably priced..
A couple more..a Government 1911 and a Gold Cup..
Each, I use with different ammo..
The original test-firing was something like 13,000 rounds with NO malfunctions...but that was not a Springfield, it was a Colt..
I would place the AMT in there with any Colt..
You need to KNOW the 1911 and what it likes..
You need to use a Main Spring of the correct tension, to match the ammo you are using..
Target Loads or Full Loads..??
I prefer full-length guide-rods along with a rubber bushing...
You can get yourself an RCBS (Rock-Chucker) Loader and re-load your ammo far cheaper than you can buy it....use lead bullets, they are cheaper than the Jacketed bullets, especially at Gun Shows..just load them for under 950 FPS..
The 1911 is always a challenge...it is probably the hardest pistol to SHOOT WELL.. it IS accurate but it takes much shooting to shoot one "Well"...
With light loads and a Bushing, the spent casings will fall about 4 ft to the right of the gun..
For just a self-defense weapon, I would choose a 3" .410 Pistol.

Ron..

 

[JerryS]

Thanks for the insight. I do have the Judge Public Defender. Guess I need to carry it in the other pocket.

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 20:58:20 07/06/11)
The 1911 .45 cal. has been around for 100 years and needs some changes to be made for it to use anything other than "Ball" ammunition...
I have no idea what model you purchased and what type projectiles you are shooting..Ball or Hollow Point..?
The ejection port needs opened and the Barrel throat needs opened for Hollow Point ammunition..
The Russian ammo may not be up to normal pressures and that could have caused the Stove-Pipe.
I have an American made AMT that I like very much (Stainless) that is reasonably priced..
A couple more..a Government 1911 and a Gold Cup..
Each, I use with different ammo..
The original test-firing was something like 13,000 rounds with NO malfunctions...but that was not a Springfield, it was a Colt..
I would place the AMT in there with any Colt..
You need to KNOW the 1911 and what it likes..
You need to use a Main Spring of the correct tension, to match the ammo you are using..
Target Loads or Full Loads..??
I prefer full-length guide-rods along with a rubber bushing...
You can get yourself an RCBS (Rock-Chucker) Loader and re-load your ammo far cheaper than you can buy it....use lead bullets, they are cheaper than the Jacketed bullets, especially at Gun Shows..just load them for under 950 FPS..
The 1911 is always a challenge...it is probably the hardest pistol to SHOOT WELL.. it IS accurate but it takes much shooting to shoot one "Well"...
With light loads and a Bushing, the spent casings will fall about 4 ft to the right of the gun..
For just a self-defense weapon, I would choose a 3" .410 Pistol.

Ron..

HMMMM mines handles everything I shoot without and mods.....

Rick

 

[colekicker]

I personally will not use steel cased ammo. It is not good for the extractor on your 1911. There are some good 1911 forums out there with lots of support on them.
I have a Kimber Custom TLE II (LAPD Swat carries this). This was my second 1911. I bought it used and after the first 30 rounds I thought I knew why someone had gotten rid of it. It was super tight. After about 800 rounds and making sure to keep it oiled, it is the best pistol I have ever owned.
My advise with a 1911 is to use brass ammo, use good quality magazines, oil regularly and fire 500 rounds before you complain.
Walmart has the best deals on ammo. Winchester 230 gr white box ball ammo was 35.97 for 100 this weekend and federal was 18.97 for boxes of 50 (it was 16.97).

 

[BushogPapa]

Yours may have already been prepared...!

Ron.

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 21:30:27 07/06/11)
Yours may have already been prepared...!

Ron.

Bought it new in box. For a less than 500 dollar 45 it's been great!

Rick

 

[Pete76NY]

That new Ruger 1911 is sweeeeet!

 

[JDseller]

I have the two Colt 1911 45 cal. pistols I carried in Vietnam. The Army was giving us some low quality pistols when I got to Nam. I wrote my Father about the trouble we where having with them. He went and bought these two match grade pistols and sent them to me. In 1969 dollars he gave almost $1000 for the pair. They where supposed to be made out of better materials. I have never replaced anything other than the magazines. At that time you could buy your own pistols as long as you registered them with the armor officer where you where stationed. Not sure if you can do that any more.

These two pistols have save my life more than once. I know I have fired more than 10,000 rounds through them. They still are in good shape. I still fire them twice each month. A couple of Vets and I get together at a local shooting range and shot the obstacle coarse. I have my carry permit and I want to be able to still hit what I want. I have not been more than an arms length away from these pistols for many years. They have served me well now for over 40 years.

Maybe some of the other brands are good but I will never bet my life on anything other than a Colt 1911. I have shot some of the others too. They did not seem as smooth as the Colts I have.

 

[Gun guru]

I ONLY buy USA made ammo....Period!
I was given a box of .223 Wolf ammo, made in the commie country of USSR. I still have that box, I fired 2 of the rounds of that box, when I first got my AR several years ago. 1 of the 2 rounds did not fire......That is right, an indent in the back of the bullet but no bang. WTF!!!!
I told myself to never buy/accept Russian made ammo.
I have fired about 600 + rounds out of my AR and I have had zero failures with USA made ammo. I also dont buy South Korean ammo, or Yugoslavian ammo, or ammo from Turkey.
I have had zero failures from other calibers that are made in the USA. .30-30 ammo has been great all USA made, Remington and Hornady. USA quality is great compared to the imported junk.
I think of ammo like this.....If you have an expensive gun, say a $1000 Kimber 1911, would you buy cheap ammo that can jam. If you have a $25,000 car/truck would you put Chinese/Walmart made oil in it? No fricken way.
If you need a good deal on ammo of all calibers then go to www.gunbroker.com
I bought a lot of .223 online I bought 400 rounds of .223 for $155 that is with shipping.
C ya.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Autoloaders are fussy about ammo; that's just the way it is. Failure to eject is not uncommon. You may just need to run a few hundred rounds through the gun for it to loosen up and work reliably.

I have no experience with the Wolf ammo, although I've been told it works fine. I use handloads exclusively in my guns, and finding a powder and bullet combination that works well can be a challenge. I would recommend you try a box or two of brand-name ammo like Winchester, Remington or Federal. Buying cheap ammo is false economy, because it tends to have poor accuracy and you can't become proficient with your gun if it won't hit where you're aiming. If you're serious about shooting, you need to invest in reloading equipment. Loading your own ammo will allow you to shoot more often and make more accurate ammo.

In addition to the gun and ammo, there's a third variable in the equation: the shooter. It's common among new shooters to "limp wrist", that is to hold the gun loosely. An autoloader needs to be held firmly to function reliably.

 

[Paul Shuler]

Dont give up on it to soon. Give it a few 100 rounds to break in. Another thing that can cause a stove pipe failure to feed is a loose grip or what some call limp wristing. You need to have a good firm stiff grip. And shoot a lot. The only problem I have had with the Wolfe stuff in my Kimber is that it leaves my gun nasty dirty. I have a 9 mm smith & wesson that will not shoot Remington rounds. I think the your gun has a good reputaion, Keep it clean, feed it good ammo and shoot it a lot and enjoy.

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 03:07:46 07/07/11) Autoloaders are fussy about ammo; that's just the way it is. Failure to eject is not uncommon. You may just need to run a few hundred rounds through the gun for it to loosen up and work reliably.

I have no experience with the Wolf ammo, although I've been told it works fine. I use handloads exclusively in my guns, and finding a powder and bullet combination that works well can be a challenge. I would recommend you try a box or two of brand-name ammo like Winchester, Remington or Federal. Buying cheap ammo is false economy, because it tends to have poor accuracy and you can't become proficient with your gun if it won't hit where you're aiming. If you're serious about shooting, you need to invest in reloading equipment. Loading your own ammo will allow you to shoot more often and make more accurate ammo.

In addition to the gun and ammo, there's a third variable in the equation: the shooter. It's common among new shooters to "limp wrist", that is to hold the gun loosely. An autoloader needs to be held firmly to function reliably.

New shooters??? LOL I spent some time on a range this winter, indoor, 50'. Guys were in there twice a week and with standard 50' pistol targets it looked like they had used a shot gun! And these guys shoot year round.....one in the lane next to me who shoots twice a week with several very nice Colts told be I was showing off shooting 2" groups with my Rock Island. I told him maybe it was something with his guns and let him try mine. He shot all over the target with that too. One guy even had a scope on a .22 target pistol. Again all over the target. I think from watching em that they were chasing rounds. I was a small arms instructor for a while in the Army so I kinda know what to look for.

With todays US made ammo you really don't see much of a difference between factory and hand loads until you are getting out there in range. Most shooters will do better with hand loads but it's more of a crutch than anything else. My son shoots my .45 in 2" groups with hand loads and about 3" with factory unless I lie to him and tell him that the mag I just handed him is loaded with my loads. Then he is shooting 2" groups again. I get 2" groups with both. I don't see much difference between factory and hand loads with my rifles out to 200 yards (I know guys who will not shoot a 30.06 past 100) using the same weight/type bullet and same powder charge. Worst case is about 1/4 inch difference. Now a BIL has an off brand 30.06 that will not shoot any factory load worth a darn but hand load 150 grain boat tail spitzers at about 2600 FPS and it's a tack driver.

But guns are a good way to start an argument. Everyone thinks they know it all. Get on a pistol forum and read the 10MM and up group trying to convince the 9MM crowd that just because the US military went over to 9MM don't mean it's a good gun.

As far as Wolf Ammo is concerned I've read that the primers put corrosive deposits in a gun but don't know for sure.

 

[elmersooner]

the only wolf ammo i use is for my 7.62 x 54 m44. the cheapo hog gun that i don't worry about if it gets scratched--no trouble with that ammo, but it is the ammo they used for their military rifles. for my 40, 9mm, 357 sig, and 45 autoloaders I just have had to find what they like. the 40 is the pickiest and umc is it's choice.

 

[Mel in SW Iowa]

JerryS,
Reading your description of the malfunction you experienced, it sounds like you experienced a failure to extract. It should have been accompanied
with a noticeable decrease in recoil and/or noise level. Failure to extract in a 1911 can be caused
by a "squib" or low powered round that doesn't create enough chamber pressure to push the slide back far enough for the shell casing to be struck
by the ejector. Failure to extract can also be caused by too strong a mainspring, but this will cause all rounds to fail to extract. Your experience is most probably due to one low powered round in the ammo you are using.
A "stovepipe" is a term used to describe a failure
to feed. It is most often caused by magazine feed
lip improperly shaped, occasionally caused by a rough or damaged surface on the feed ramp,
weakened/aged magazine spring or damaged follower.

I have never used "Wolf" brand steel cased ammo in
a 1911, so I don't know if there are problems there.

Springfield Armory has a very good reputation
among people who shoot a lot.

 

[jackinok]

i agree with the others,i wouldnt judge it too harshly when using wolf ammo.its pretty cheap stuff in my opinion.what ive found on a 1911 ,is the more you shoot it, and the looser it gets the more reliable it becomes.I would assume that would hold true of the clones also,but they will simply shoot loose sooner!

 

[MarkB_MI]

Tanker,

You're right, I've seen guys who shoot almost every weekend and still can't hit anything. I don't know why, it's not that difficult: Good sight picture, squeeze the trigger. If you do it right it goes boom when the sights are lined up with the target. If someone goes the range week after week and still can't hit anything, they're doing something wrong.

My wife and I took a concealed pistol class a while back. When we went to the range, I had her shoot my Python; she shot a few bullseyes and then said "no, I want to shoot MY gun." So she switched to her S&W Airweight and continued to shoot nice, tight groups. The instructors were impressed, thinking she was an experienced shooter. No, I told them, we went in the back yard a couple of times and she shot a few dozen rounds total. Meanwhile the shooters around us were spraying bullets all over their targets.

The other night (4th of July), my ex-USMC stepson wanted to shoot his Glock in the back yard. I couldn't say no, being it was the 4th and neighbors wouldn't complain. I sat up a metal spinning target my wife bought me for my birthday. By this time it was getting late and it was just about impossible to see your sight picture. I got out my Hi-Power and shot three rounds: plink, plink, plink. I gave up after than because the new handloads weren't feeding very good. Stepson gets out his Glock and proceeds to go through a magazine without hitting anything. Go figure: Newer gun, better sights, younger eyes and he still couldn't hit anything.

 

[Bret4207]

Wow, I guess everyone has an opinion. FWIW- I've used a lot of Wolf, never had a problem of any type. That includes the steel cases stuff. With a brand new 1911 there is a significant break in period. I would suggest you put a few hundred through it and then see how you like it. You can always trade it or sell it. 1911's aren't for everyone.

BTW- Gun Guru- Russia stopped being a commie country back in the early 90's. Might want to update your mindset. Are they likely still the enemy? Yup, but they aren't commies anymore. That would be North Korea, China, etc.

 

[Gun guru]

Yeah, I guess I have to get out of that mindset that the Russians are not commies, but the cold war socialist economic ways still exist I would bet. (how is there QC in the Wolf ammo plant)? Not nearly as good as the USA I am sure. I still wouldnt buy ammo that is made there or N. Korea, or China.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I bet not. In Russia everything is for sale and there is not much regulation. The USA has a far more government controlled economy then they have. As for the ammo, I have put thousands and thousands of rounds of it through my 9mm pistols and rifles (AR clones). I would not use it for social work (Federal +p+ is for that)but it is great for training. The failures, although not often, are excellent for training, clear the weapon and move on, my 12 year old daughter is better at this then I am. I can buy that stuff for less than I can reload for and I don't have to worry about picking up the brass. Plus, out at the farm it rusts away.