O.T. Welding alum. to metal???

[Anonymous-0]

Friend wants me to weld pieces of metal (legs) to an aluminum BBQ pit. Can this be done?? What type of rod should I use?????

Only welding I do is for my 8N equipment and stuff, which is all metal.

Only have a 225 AC Lincoln welder.

Thanks for any advise. David

 

[Anonymous-0]

It can not be done no matter how hard you try or what rod you use.

 

[Bob]

I'm guessing we could substitute the word "steel" for the word "metal" in your post?????

 

[KL-VA]

"metal" and "welding" are very inexact terms, but I wouldn't attempt to weld anything but aluminum to aluminum.

 

[old]

You can not weld a steel type metal to another unlike metal and in this case steel to alum. But that said you can braze or solder it. Silver solder would probably work or as I said brazing it should also work

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 06:22:53 09/23/11) Friend wants me to weld pieces of metal (legs) to an aluminum BBQ pit. Can this be done?? What type of rod should I use?????

Only welding I do is for my 8N equipment and stuff, which is all metal.

Only have a 225 AC Lincoln welder.

Thanks for any advise. David

Nope wont work. Steel melts at around 2500 degrees, aluminum at 1218. The aluminum will have melted away before the steel is hot enough to weld. Same thing with brazing, brass melts at 1652-1724.

Rick

 

[old]

I have seen alum brazed before gut it might also have been some thicker alum that it was on I did not look all that close just noticed that it was or at least sure looked like it

 

[ShadetreeRet]

Weld brackets to the legs and bolt 'em on. I would use stainless bolts because of the heat.

 

[Welding man]

If you could invent a rod to weld aluminum to steel you would be an instant multi- millionaire. Big companies have spent millions trying to do it an no one has had great success. And silver solder won't stick to aluminum and neither will brass.

 

[elmersooner]

if you do try it, can you make a video so we can watch? aluminum is tricky just welding with aluminum. make brackets for the legs and use bolts to secure.

 

[souNdguy]

Pure 100% BS on the solder not sticking to aluminum....

plenty of alloy rods will solder to aluminum, pot metal, etc. mostly zinc based with some copper in them..

plain 'solder' can be made to stick to aluminum with proper prep.

BTDT.. and KNOW that it can be done.. have done it with my own hands.

soundguy

 

[Welding man]

You didn't read what I said.I said Silver solder,Big difference. Yes they make solder for aluminum, but it doesn't have silver in it.Do radiator shops solder aluminum radiators? Not in my neck of the woods they don't.

 

[souNdguy]

silver bearing solder can, depending on prep and exact composition, stick to aluminum.

again.. I've been in the electronics business decades. I'd soldered plenty of aluminum.. and plenty with silver bearing solders. not all are the same.. etc. many have antimony as well..

lots of different formuleas

soundguy

 

[Ultradog MN]

You are wrong Soundguy.
Welding man is correct.

 

[souNdguy]

Dude.. go look up alumally.. It's made for soldering aluminum.

lookup welco 52 it's made to do the same.. specifically states so.

I have some at home. Can do pot metal.. etc.

it's about 6% aluminum and copper.. (3-4.x + 2.x ) and the rest zinc.

http://www.e-harris.ru/harris/files/catalogue/776.pdf

and here's the add:

http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/current/05catpg373.pdf


you can even join aluminum and copper. heck.. it's what in the rod.. aluminum, copper and zinc.

I've use dthe stuff many times.

I've soldered to aluminum heat sinks for DECADES..

just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.

this isn't a philosophical do I like EI or not question.. it's proven fact. the allow solder rods are out there to do exactly what was mentioned!!!

just like the guys that say you can't solder to zinc.. I got plenty of water tanks for my animals with tin tabs soldered tot he side of the zin tank. got some soldered to steel tanks too!

want me to post pics? I can go clean a piece of aluminum stock, fluxh it up and rub a bead of solder on it for ya if ya want???

have you never taken apart a piece of electronic gear and seen the aluminum heatsinks on the mainboard wavesoldered into the PC board substraight. i've been doing electronics soldering for 29 years now... heck.. plenty of electronic components have ALUMINUM leads.. and they solder JUST fine.

soundguy

 

[Ultradog MN]

I can't speak for Welding Man but as for myself I thought we were referring to the original question of whether he could weld steel legs onto an aluminum barbeque grill.
It can't be done. Not with solder or silver solder, not with welding using electricity or any other technique that I've heard of.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 12:40:44 09/23/11) Weld brackets to the legs and bolt 'em on. I would use stainless bolts because of the heat.

I have welded ornamental aluminum castings in iron work before . What I got was a hard blob filled with bubbles and no strength or bond . It was enough to hold the aluminum in place and look pretty .

If you did manage to braze or solider it together it would be such a weak connection that your efforts would be a waste .

A nice stand with the top bolted on would be an excellent choice .

Be VERY careful or your wife will see that you can build nice frames and you will be busy for the next year building plant stands , aquarium stands , nic nac shelves , etc .

 

[souNdguy]

weld on.. no.. ( not unless you really consider silicon bronze welding ), soldering on.. FOR SURE, however the problem will be that the strength limit will be the lesser of the 3 metals involved.

the steel legs will be fine.. the aluminum grill will be fine.. the 94% ZINC filler brazing/soldering rod will be the weak link, or if he chooses another alloy, THAT will be the weak link. Not to mention I would not be soldering anything to a BBQ grill..

My point was that there are plenty of ways to join aluminum to copper and steel and cast iron.

In the original application / message, IMHO, bolting some angle tabs thru the BBQ substraight then attaching some box tube legs will be the best bet.. OR TIG welding some aluminum box tubing on, then use inner steel for legs.

I was not saying you could WELD steel to aluminum.. I was saying you could SOLDER to aluminum.

BTDT many times.. probably many times a week for sure...

as for soldering steel legs onto the BBQ grill.

Sure.. it CAN be done.. but won't hold IMHO.. not hard to join steel to aluminum using solder and flux.

I can go home when I get off my Gig and solder ( gas solder.. not weld ) a steel bolt to a piece of aluminum stock if you really need to see proof. For S&G's I can stick a piece of copper on there too, if you really want to see it.

PS.. if you want to think about the physics of it.. look at electroplating. you can electroplate lots of different materials onto different materials. it's not glued on.. it's bonded... those will be straight metalic ions though.. not a slurry like solder...

soundguy

 

[Ken(Ark)]

PS.. if you want to think about the physics of it.. look at electroplating. you can electroplate lots of different materials onto different materials. it's not glued on.. it's bonded... those will be straight metalic ions though.. not a slurry like solder...

soundguy

I watch an hour of TV a month .

I saw a program that I was intrigued enough to sit down for the whole episode .


I dont remember all of the facts but basically a company was taking these gigantic plates ( 10' x 40' x 2" thick ? ) of different metals , like stainless and aluminum and setting an explosive charge between them .

When they were done the two pieces were one with a perfect union . It was a solid mixture and not just a thin layer stuck together . Kind of like looking at a color spectrum where yellow fades to orange and then to red .

Like I said I dont remember the exact details but it was a big deal and not cost effective but somewhere there was a need for it .

 

[Nate8N]

You may try WaterWeld by JB Weld

I have many clients that come to me to install fishfinders on thier pontoon boats and I would rather not make a hole below the water line that could leak. The brackets are nearly always stainless and, of course the pontoons are aluminum. Just rough up the areas to be bonded with a wire brush and mix the WaterWeld up like playdough and stick them togeather. Dries in 10 to 15 mins and cures rock hard overnight.

Check it out:

http://jbweld.net/products/water.php

WalMart carries it for around five bucks

I have never had it fail so far, just be sure to clean up the areas to be bonded with a wire brush (bright and shiny!)

 

[souNdguy]

It was worth staying up an extra 15 minutes after work, burning the gas and messing up a few feet of aluminum to do this lil exercise

from the end:

a piece of scrap angle iron

a piece of copper water pipe

a tin tab, like for doing roofs

an un plated gr5 bolt

bar stock is 1/4" x 1" aluminum

i used oatly silver bearing solder, oatly h-20 paste flux, and the flux with no lid is burnley paste flux. I also used plain old 60/40 rosin core radio shack solder, and I used an alumallow rod ( copper 2.5%, aluminum 3.4%, ballance is zinc )

outter pieces are silver soldered on, inner 2, copper is done with alumalloy rod, and tin tab with 60/40

used burnley on the 60/40 as it is an agressive flux.. moreso than the oatly anyway.

no tricks, no gimmicks, and no cold solders.. these are bonded.. i showed the backside in one pic of the steel angle iron stuck to the aluminum so that you see there is no screw or anything.

nothing more than cleaning up the metal with a bit of 800 sand paper, and then the flux. blue plumbers torch was the heat source.. items were soldered on in order using the various solder types and fluxes.

You CAN solder aluminum and steel together.

you CAN solder copper to aluminum

soundguy

 

[souNdguy]

here's the pictoral I made for ultradog...

note.. silver solder was used on the 2 steel pieces.. the angle iron and bolt.

60/40 on the tin tab, and alumalloy rod on the copper. couple different fluxes were used...

yes that's right.. steel soldered to aluminum...

no tricks.. it's real.. i did it after work just to illustrate what I had been saying. all I did was clean the metal, wet / tin both pieces, then stick together and put the heat back around it for the solders to re-wet and join... pretty common practice for soldering... one pic shows the solder glob on the aluminum, AFTER i cleaned it off with a buffing wheel to show it was really there.. same on the piece of angle iron.
told you I wasn't lieing. just takes prep and materials... 30 ys ago when i started soldering i couldn't have done that.. but it's not 30 ys ago...

soundguy
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi bin/viewit.cgi?bd nboard&th 832433