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Oliver 60 Row Crop won't start.

T

Treeman22

Member
Hello, I am super close to getting my Oliver 60 running. It hasn't ran since 1993. Anyway I have it to the point where it will fire if I put a little gas in each cylinder or if I spray a little starting fluid into the carburetor. But then it will stop firing once that fuel burns up. But it just won't start and run.

I am assuming it's not getting gas into the cylinders for the spark plugs to ignite. I did rebuild the carburetor and I have everything adjusted according to the instructions that came with the rebuild kit. Also I did replace all the ignition system wiring and distributor parts. I have confirmed it has good spark.

Can anyone give me any ideas of what to try so I can get this tractor running again? Thanks
 
Thanks for the response. I'm definitely getting gas into the carb. The bowl fills with gas. It will try to fire without dumping gas into the cylinders or spraying starting fluid. It doesn't try to fire every time but it does nonetheless. Just doesn't seem to be getting enough to make it run.
 
Firstly did you make double sure the float level was set right? Just because you have a little fuel in the bowl doesnt mean its right. If its to low you wont get enough fuel to run. Did you back the jets out about a turn and a half? That wont be right but that will give the engine enough fuel to run and set the carb correctly.
 
Yes the float is set at 1/4 inch just like the rebuild kit said to do. And I have tried the idle needle and power needle both at 1 turn out 2 turns out and other places between. I'm wondering since it has been sitting for so long if the cylinders are dry and if dumping a little oil in each cylinder might help. The engine was never siezed up. But when I crank the engine over by hand using the fan it turns over pretty easy. So maybe a compression issue?
 
If the rings are stuck in the grooves, you won't have much compression. My brother bought a small crawler that had been through three owners and nobody could get it started. Somebody had the head off and had that all redone and it still wouldn't. I pulled the pistons out and every ring was stuck in the groove. I soaked them in benzene and that didn't even loosen them. I had to use a small punch and break every one of them in little pieces to get them out. A new set of rings and it started right up.
 
(quoted from post at 13:03:29 01/29/22) Yes the float is set at 1/4 inch just like the rebuild kit said to do. And I have tried the idle needle and power needle both at 1 turn out 2 turns out and other places between. I'm wondering since it has been sitting for so long if the cylinders are dry and if dumping a little oil in each cylinder might help. The engine was never siezed up. But when I crank the engine over by hand using the fan it turns over pretty easy. So maybe a compression issue?
Click to expand...


Have you checked the float/fuel level with a clear tube? If it fires with starting fluid and gas it should fire with a properly working carb.
 
Could be one or more of several issues.

A compression test would be good. Timing may not be correct for good running. There may be an inlet manifold leak. Inlet valves stuck open would prevent fuel being drawn from the carburettor.

Carburettor is clear favourite, but the above could well not help.

Poster gives no details of checks being carried out. That does not help in providing more than guesses.
 
I have checked vaccum with my hand covering
the choke. It has great suction I thought
it was going to take my hand off. Also
plenty of gas getting to the opening at the
choke end of the carb. I am definitely
getting gas into the cylinders because the
spark plugs are wet when you take them out.
Spark plugs also have a nice blue spark.

As far as level of gas in the carb the bowl
is full if you take the top off the carb.i
tried putting some oil in each cylinder and
that didn't help.

I have not pulled the valve cover to check
the valves as of yet. I was hoping I
wouldn't have to. My father in law has a
compression tester but I won't be able to
get that from him for a few days to a week.

It does try to fire multiple times when
trying to start it but it just won't fire
up and run. Any other checks you would like
me to try I am open to suggestions so I can
get this figured out.

Thanks.
 
Sometimes I choke mine by covering the carb with my hand when they have been sitting long. Did you check firing order on tdc compression stroke? I have one the distributor was installed wrong and 1 is not where its should be.
 
Electric start?

Has anyone fitted a ballast resistor circuit and only sparking via the shorting wire?

I would give it a tow start.
 
Yes it is electric start. Don't see what
pull starting will do when it won't run
now. Yes it has a resister as well. Plus
pull starting is out right now since my
rear rims are shot.

I could check firing order. I put the new
spark plug wires on the new distributor cap
in the same way they were on the old
distributor cap. But it won't hurt to
check.
 
What kind of plug wires? They need to be steel core or copper core. If you used carbon core, throw them away.

I'll second towing it. I've had many a tractor that wouldn't start after it sat a while and wouldn't start without towing. I had an Oliver 70 that was famous for that.

You seem to be inexperienced so I'll tell you, put it in high gear, not low. In low, you'll just slide the tires. Be sure to turn on the switch. Fiddle with the choke and throttle until you find the right combination.
 
THere are a lot of posts on other sites where after a tune-up the tractor ran worse than before, or not at all. Did you replace points and condenser lately? New condensers all seem to be junk. If you have the old one, put it back in and see if it fixes the problem. Mostly after a few minutes with the new condenser they quit and cannot be started again. Not sure if it would apply in your case as it seems to run a little bit. I think you said it had spark, but maybe not strong enough if condenser is bad.
 
sounds like timing to me. I would check timing and correct firing order. I would then jump it with a separate 12 volt battery directly to the starter, this will not lug down battery to the ignition and should spin it over faster which could overcome some low compression. good luck.
 
Spark plug wires are copper core. I am somewhat inexperienced. But I know enough to tell you that the tractor cannot be pull started at this time. The rear rims are rusted out and it won't be able to move until I get them replaced. Right now I'm just trying to get this engine running. I will put better rims and tires on after I get the engine running smoothly. If I can't get the engine running then I'm not going to bother sinking money into rims and tires. I believe it will run because it ran fine the last time it was parked in 1993. I do have my dad helping me as well who is experienced with tractors but I was just looking to see what other people's opinions and advice is. This tractor is very close to starting but just won't quite go.

I will add I was able to get it to run for about 10 seconds or so but that was when it was helped along with the starting fluid.

I thank all of you for your advice. Anything else you can tell me that I could check on or try I am willing to hear ideas.
 
It's tough to say without being there. Sounds like it's just not getting gas, but you'll have to keep at it until you figure out what it is. Best of luck. Hope you get it going.
 

I say again if it runs on starting fluid it will run on gas. I've never been where you are and found it to be anything other than a fuel problem You're almost there. Take the carb apart again, soak it, brass or soft wire through passages, etc., blow it out, put it back together, use a portable tank connected directly to the carb. Find a rebuild video on YouTube of a similar carb to make sure you're not missing anything.
 
That's what my dad says about not getting a steady flow of gas. It seems as though gas is getting there but not enough because it will try to fire. He's been a mechanic for 30 plus years. He's very good at it but hasn't spent a lot of time trying to diagnose my problem. He told me he would come up this week and we would look at it.

Until he comes I'm going to double check spark on all cylinders and check compression. Then maybe pull the carb off and make sure everything still looks good in there.
 
I'm getting a time tester light to check timing with from my father in law along with compression and spark tester tonight. I'm going to test as is and make adjustments if needed.
 
I did this on a 1550. The numbering on the cap was transposed which changed timing 180 degrees.Similar experience on my buddies AC tractor. I held the cap on turned 180 degrees and it fired right off. This was after scratching my head and spending 10 hours of my life I will never get back.
 
is the gas in the tank fresh or has been in the tank for a long time and treated with Stable. I've seen gas treated with to much Stable not fire and had to put in fresh gas to get it to run!!
 
Thank you I will check the cap tomorrow. And the gas actually does have stable in it I hadn't thought of that being an issue. I will definitely try fresh gas but I'm still going to do the spark compression and timing tests. If those check out I'll check the distributor cap and try fresh gas. Thanks for the help.
 
I only use non ethanol gas in my tractors and even then it doesn't seem to stay good. You should be able to smell it and tell if it's good. If you're getting gas in the throat of the carb you're probably getting enough gas. Maybe not enough suction to get it to the cylinders. Did you try a little oil in the cylinders yet? That will help your compression a little and create more suction. If the plugs are dry and there is gas coming out of the carb it likely hasn't sucked it up in the head.
 
Yes I put some oil in the cylinders a
couple days ago. I have a compression and
spark tester I'm going to check that stuff
today and see what I find.
 
I did the spark and compression tests
today. It has spark all 4 cylinders for
sure. The compression tester showed 60 psi
in all 4 cylinders. My service manual for
the Oliver 60 shows it is supposed to have
115 psi for a the gasoline engines. So I'm
assuming at this point the low compression
is my issue. Any ideas on how to fix low
compression? As I said before I did dump a
little oil into the cylinders. Could it be
stuck valves? Or will the engine need
rebuilt?
 
You can check the rocker arm clearance and make sure all the valves are fully closing, but most likely the rings are stuck. I fear you'll have to take the pistons out to free them up. Anything you try to use to soak them will probably soak right on by.
 

Since you keep wanting to chase other issues rather than fuel and you're curious about cylinder pressures, do a poor man's leakdown test. Assuming you have a quick disconnect compression tester, put the cylinder at TDC, leave the test tube screwed into the spark plug hole, unhook the gauge, connect an air hose with about 10-15 lbs. pressure and increase the pressure until you can hear where the air is going. Equal low pressure across all cylinders is normally indicative of mechanical timing being off but we're talking about a tractor that hasn't ran in 30 years. I find it odd you're getting the same low pressure across all four cylinders. If it had stuck rings you should see variations.

Any reason why you won't take the carb apart and redo your work?
 
Im not opposed to taking the carburetor
apart I just wanted to check spark and
compression to try and narrow down what to
look for. I'm not opposed to opening the
valve cover and looking for stuck valves or
anything else. Just wanted to post my
testing results and see what those of you
who have more experience have to say that
might help me. Thanks for your response. I
have not ruled out a carburetor issue at
this point though.
 
Did you say it was stuck before? I would mix up some atf and solvent 50/50 mix. Acetone is what I often use. Put a 1/4 cup or so in each cylinder. Let it sit for a week or so. Maybe turn it slightly by hand. May have to add more if it comes out.
Not sure how you did your compression test but 60 psi is pretty low. Also having the same compression on each cylinder would be pretty rare.
 
The engine was never stuck. And I promise
the compression tester said 60 psi on all 4
cylinders. I can check again if need be but
that's what it said today. I'm not saying
the piston rings aren't stuck. I want to
cross all other problems off the list
before going as far as tearing the engine
apart.
 

And you need to do the test both dry and wet.

In fact, it might be good if you describe exactly how you did it, along with the results (as well as a check on your pressure gauge).
 
Redid the compression test this morning.
Throttle was open. All plugs were out. I
got 90 psi on cylinders 1&3. I got 80 psi
on cylinder 4 and 110 on cylinder 2. So I
apologize that I did my first test
incorrect and thank you to those who
corrected me. So my compression isn't as
low I thought. I do not currently have any
extra oil to dump into the cylinders to try
it that way. But I did put some oil in them
last weekend. Just an update.
 
Yes. When my dad was here last week he sprayed starting fluid I cranked the engine we got it to fire up and run but only until the starting fluid burned up then it shut off again. We got it to run 10 to 15 seconds or so at a time using that method.
 
You've got a carb problem. If it sucks ether in the intake and runs and won't run when you stop spraying it, it's not getting gas.
 
I also took carburetor apart again. Found nothing that was missing or loose or clogged up. I sprayed some carb cleaner in it put it back on. My next step is to try some fresh gas. I also double checked the firing order of the spark plug wires on the distributor cap. Everything seems to be correct with that as well. If fresh gas doesn't help maybe it's time to check for stuck intake valves?
 
I have not ruled out a fuel delivery issue.
I just wanted to make sure everything else
is crossed off the list as well. But can't
stuck intake valves cause fuel to not get
where it needs to be? I did check the carb
again so I am trying to track down where
the fuel issue is. I definitely have gas
getting to the carb. And it has a ton of
suction at the choke end of the carb. So
something between carb and cylinders is
causing the fuel to not get there if that
is the issue. So what else is between there
besides exhaust manifold and intake valves?
I know the exhaust manifold is open because
I had to replace that. And the intake holes
in the engine are open as well I made sure
of that. I agree with you though it appears
as if there is a fuel delivery issue. It
won't hurt to try fresh gas though either.
The stuff I'm using is a couple months old
and I put stable in it. Another poster on
here said he had issues with stable in gas
as well.
 
If you had the carb completely disassembled check that the venturi didn't get reinstalled upside down you don't need to ask how I know this! My brother had about the same problems with his MM 670 and I mentioned this to him he was pretty sure he had installed it right but he did check and it was in upside down put the carb back on MM started and ran nice
GB in MN
 
I just can't see that it would die as soon as he stops spraying ether if it was a condenser though.........
 
(quoted from post at 19:41:25 02/01/22) I agree on condenser; can give you these symptoms... As said, put in a old condenser and try..
Click to expand...

Lets forget the dead-end red herrings. He had a strong blue spark on page one of the thread. Engine runs on starter fluid. He has a fuel problem. Nothing less and likely nothing more.

Problem is either with the carb or possibly still an air leak between carb and head (although he did say a ton of vacuum at the cab inlet). But I dont know what his ton might be.

Question: Is there a belt pulley fitted? If so, use that to start it (instead of a tow-start)?
 
There is a place for belt pulley yes but no
pulley on it. Yes I completely agree with
fuel issue especially since everything else
seems to check out. I did open carb up
today to check that everything was right
plus I watched a guy on you tube rebuild a
carb just like mine I did everything
exactly as he did. Now I did think of
something. I had to change the exhaust
manifold on this. I put new gaskets on.
However the book I have said to torque the
exhaust manifold nuts to 23 ft lbs. Which I
did. Is this torque specification true?
Because if it is not tight enough possibly
I'm sucking air in around the manifold.
 
Update everyone. My dad was just here He is
very experienced mechanic. Anyway he got it
to the point where it will run without
starting fluid on full choke. But any other
choke position it dies. We popped the valve
cover just to put our minds at ease that
everything works good in there. And it's
all working very good and looks good. No
rust or sticking valves. He suggested that
my carburetor is my problem. This carb was
rebuilt with brand new parts and cleaned
thoroughly when I rebuilt it. I believe he
is correct on carb being the problem but
how do you fix a carb that seemingly has
nothing wrong with it visually? Like I
mentioned before I watched a you tube video
on a carb rebuild like mine. And I did
everything exactly like the guy on you tube
did. Any body with marvel schebler tsx carb
experience your advice is welcome. Thanks
 

cvphoto116332.jpg

Here is a photo of it. Not 100 percent sure
what TSX number it is. It was on the
tractor when I started working on it. I
might not have gotten it clean enough or
something.
 


Well, it doesn't really look like that carb was soaked for any length of time. I'm guessing (assuming the float level is still correct), there are still clogs in the passages somewhere. I can hear my old shop teacher, "If it ain't clean on the outside, it ain't clean on the inside!" I've been right so far, so I'm going to say again, tear it down. Soak it in solvent, brush it, spray it out, blow air through everything, hit it with carb cleaner, air again, etc. Recheck your float level, confirm with clear tube. Try again.


Alternatively, my off the cuff internet diagnosis says the main nozzle is clogged.
 
Yes I'm planning to tear it apart again.
Although I will say I had it apart Earlier
today and took the main nozzle out and it
was clean at that point. But I will start
tomorrow or re cleaning it. I'm just glad
I'm getting closer to resolving the issue.
And I do appreciate everyone's advice. And
I feel confident now that the problem is
narrowed down to the carburetor. And I had
soaked it in diesel fuel for a few days and
used a whole can of carb cleaner on it. But
apparently that wasn't enough. There is a
clog in there somewhere and I'm going in to
find it!
 


Soak it in carb cleaning solution like Berryman's Chem-Dip or the like. Diesel fuel doesn't do much on its own in the short term. Once you whip this you'll be an expert until your next carburetor headache.
 
Make sure the needle and seat are not sticking and dont have crud in them
Pull the plug on bottom first and check for good flow. Try to finger a schematic of carb passages and spray carb clean or brake clean through them making sure it comes out the other end. Check flow out the drain plug first if you haven't already. No sense tearing the carb down until your sure its getting plenty of fuel to it.
 
timing will do that, but he'd know it with the starting fluid.
Those carbs are so simple but not easy to rebuild. I tried once, got the kit, it didn't work well (I can and have rebuilt carbs). I was in a shop that used to be an oliver dealer, old guy who worked on them still had his hand in the new New Holland business. I asked if he could rebuild mine...yep.

That was the problem and I'm sure it's yours. One of the problems I had was in the adjustment screws, they were too lose and messing with the fuel to air mixture.

If it's a leak between the carb and intake spraying starting fluid in that area will cause it to fire...also a common problem with carburated engines.
 
Hello everyone! I did a very thorough
cleaning of that carburetor today. Using
torch tip cleaners air compressor and carb
cleaner. Tore the whole thing down cleaned
until it looked clean then cleaned some
more. Then a little more. Put everything
back together and the tractor now fires
right up no problem. Runs and idles great.
First time it has done that in about 30
years!!! Now that it runs there are a few
oil seals that need replaced so I will be
moving on to that next. If I get stuck on
those I'll create a new thread. Thank you
to all who followed this conversation and
gave advice. I understand it's hard to help
and diagnose issues across this forum but
your advice did help nonetheless. Thank you
all!!!
 
Glad you have it fixed. I wasn't sure if you had an M/s carb but it seems you do. My Case had an M/S carb and like you I thought I had it clean but it always required some choke to run smoothly. By brother took it apart and found the economiser needle (with the help of some expert Case guys) and once he got that cleaned it ran fine. Not sure if your carb had that but it was very tiny and easy to overlook.
 
I found some dirt under that big round venturi. There was a passage under there I didn't know about as well that had dirt in it. I'm happy it's running again.
 
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