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OT: How do other conceal carry permit holders feel??

J

JDseller

Well-known Member
I am noticing a lot of local business displaying the no gun signs in the windows. It really kind of Pi$$es me off. If nothing happens then most people will never know I am carrying. If something does happen then my gun being in the car is no help.

Wonder how many in that CO movie theater wished that some one had ignored the no carry sign last month???

My local bank put one in the window. I went in and told the bank President that I wanted to with draw all my money out. He was all over himself asking why. I told him he was not going to be able to protect any deposits in his bank. What?? Well if the law abiding citizens have to be unarmed in the bank that just leaves the crooks to carry guns. He took the sign down.

There is a parts house in town that put one up. I just stopped going there. They are free to do that and I am free to not do business with anyone that feels that way.

Read the earlier post of mine about a cash tractor deal. Where would I be today if I was not carrying???

Uncle Sam felt it was OK to train me to use these weapons to fight for your freedom. I feel then that I earned the right to legally carry them any where on US soil. I get reminded every morning just what that payment was on freedom. Every time I have lifted something heavy since 1972 I get the wonderful feeling of knowing the price of freedom.

For those that feel they have the right to keep me from carrying them then let them go to countries that have zero rights to carry firearms. It is funny how the crime rates are going up in those countries. England has some of the strictest laws in the world on this. They are having more home invasions because the crooks know the home owners are powerless to stop them.

What many don't know about Iowa's conceal carry permit is that it is a weapons permit not just gun permit. I can carry a knife or sword with a long blade legal too. Brass knuckles are legal with the permit too. So I have played with the idea of getting a real old military sword. Then go into the places with the little cute gun with an red circle and slash across it. LMAO. I would love to see the looks on their faces.
 
JD Seller,

Both my husband and I have carry/conceal permits.

I totally agree with you that a ban on carry/conceal just leaves buildings "free for the picking" by a criminal or crazed gunman.

Good for you that you talked to your banker and got him to remove the signs. Great move. More people need to speak up... in a calm and rational manner on this subject.
SweetFeet
 
As usual, we feel similarly on most issues.
Never having put my life on the line, I don't have the passion you do.
I find myself mostly carrying around hunting season. Because then there are so many armed idiots on the loose!
It did strike me this spring when I was at the local FSA office reporting my acres for my next welfare check - that there was one of those signs. I thought about remarking that they must all prefer being killed and letting the bad guys win, but I kept quiet.
 
In Mo you cant carry in a bank. You cant even wear a hat or sun glass s. In MO it must be a proper sign in size and wording or it means nothing. Banks and schools and court house is about the only place I see the correct sign. At my church if u have a permit you tell the security staff just so they know and they incourage you to carry. There is an instructer that gives the class at our church.
 
Concealed carry is prohibited in ALL federal buildings. I had to go back to my car and leave my pocketknife in the console to get into the Social Security office.

Other'n that, I'm with JDSeller - If they don't want me to carry that's fine, I'll shop somewhere else. Here in Maine I haven't run into the problem yet, or if they WERE posted, I didn't see the sign.

As I understand it, to be enforceable the sign has to meet certain requirements as to size and visibility, and the worst they can do is ask you to leave.
 
That's why I didn't speak up. I knew I would get that excuse.
It's so comforting to know the criminals won't ever attack a federal building.
 
Check in the paper for the City of Chicago and see how many shootings they have had this weekend(no carry permits in IL) without looking, I will guess they have had 40 + shootings this weekend. I do not carry but I won t do business with a place that puts up a sign that says," please rob me, I am too stupid to protect myself and my customers."
 
[i:654c4848f0]It's so comforting to know the criminals won't ever attack a federal building. [/i:654c4848f0]

Professional courtesy...
 
What is great is the Swiss are REQUIRED to have a firearm in their home. With a couple boxes of ammo ready to go. I have seen a youtube video where this guy says, "the entire Swiss population can be mobilized in less then 24 hours" The Swiss standard issue rifle is the Sig 550.
The Swiss have compulsary service for all young men 18-22, they take their rifle home with them and continue to practice after their service.
The reason Hitler and the Nazis didnt invade the Swiss is cause they would have got their azzes shot up when they crossed over the border.
 
JD, you did exactly the right thing at your bank. I think you should have done the same thing at your parts house. Only by people speaking up will others get the message. Our gun rights are not going to be yanked away from us, they are going to be nibbled away.
 
I took the class and qualified but I never sent the paperwork to the sheriff. In my state, you can carry as long as the weapon is not hidden. So, that's what I do. Just holster it on my belt and good to go.

Can't carry in federal or court buildings nor banks and bars.
 
As my instructor said when the question came up; What part of 'CONCEALED' don't you understand?Yes schools and federal buildings but the stores etc. they can only ask you to leave if they see the weapon. I carry most times and never had any trouble.
 
I'm with JD too. It's stupid to have to leave it unattended in the car, just waiting to be stolen. I refer to the places with the "no carry" signs as "crime friendly" areas.

JMHO

Areo
 
I let my money do the talking. I was spending 20-25K at their store each year. If they don't notice that I no longer go in there then they have bigger issues.
 
There is a church of about 5,000 members near here. The membership includes about a half dozen or so FBI agents, authorized to carry anytime, anyplace.

They keep a low profile and don't advertise who they are, but they work it out among themselves that at least one attends each church service and major church function.
 
I avoid stores that have that sign up, in Michigan there are very few. Law is the same here in Michigan no churches or schools.

All you need in Michigan is an exemption to carry in the schools.

Rick
 
My conceal carry instructor encouraged us to ask to speak to a manager and tell them the situation. If you don't, they may never realize the real harm they are putting their employees and customers in.
Just think, if the criminals followed the gun laws, how many fewer crimes we would have. {See what I did right there :) }
 
I'm in Indiana, I carry everywhere without exception. Indiana law requires a person to be unarmed in locations where court is held and in schools. Being a police officer, I simply pull out my credentials and remind store owners that I am unable to enforce their desires with the signs they post. I have yet to be turned away and its been a long time since I have seen any signs. I can carry open or concealed. I try to make it obvious when I'm out. Its the hidden ones that seem to get in the most trouble around here.
 
Perhaps a more sensible sigh would be ROBBERY ON THESE PREMISES FORBIDDEN. That may discourage a robber. or at least let them know that is an undesirable act.
 
NOT my words but from an e mail I received so take it up with the author (not me, I didnt write it) if it causes you grief.

"GUN CONTROL, Oh yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself and your family, makes perfect sense"

However these ARE MY WORDS: I wont push for legislation that requires those who choose not to that they MUST carry a gun, however if they want to be tolerant and respect others views and celebrate diversity (as they always preach) then I expect in fair return they dont push for legislation that prevents me from doing so in accordance with my choice and constitutional right........

God Bless yall and the USA

John T Christian, Conservative, Patriot and Old Fuddy Duddy n proud of it
 
I don't carry a lot. I had to wear a gun every working hour for better than 20 years, so the "thrill" wore off many, many years back. Other than an occasional trip to the post office I can't think of any place I go that might prohibit my carrying. If there were some place that started that nonsense, I'd be sure to left them know I would no longer be doing business there.
 
Another thing that is totally unconstitutional and would be prohibited immediately if someone were to challenge it in court (provided it wasn't in the 9th CCofA). That is the habit of companies not allowing employees to hav a gun in their personal vehicle if it is on the premises of the business. That is wrong folks! That is as illegal as it gets. Yet I have heard of NO ONE in any state, ever challenging this law.
 
I forgot the other famous old quote about assuming the risk of carrying even where illegal'

"Its better to be judged by twelve then carried by six"

Again NOT my words

John T
 
Gun control is how any government takes over the country Hitler did it in the late 30s and even bragged about doing so.
Me I will give up my guns only when they have to remove it from my hand due to the fact I am dead and I collect as many as I can
 
Guess I don"t get it.

It"s called CONCEALED CARRY for a reason. It"s concealed, hidden, out of sight, not to be known.

Kind of like don"t ask, don"t tell. SSS.

IT"S A FREAKIN SECRET!!

Shut up and go where you plan on going, don"t make a big stink about it, just go about your business and stop making waves. It"s private property, they absolutely are allowed to deny weapons in their business just like I"m allowed to deny them in my home.

If you have to turn it into a 2nd amendment issue with each and every business, it"s no longer a concealed carry issue, it"s more about saying "Hey,,,, Pssssstttt, look at the gun I"ve got under my coat.
 
Twenty years ago I would have never considered carrying. I have changed that idea and have considered getting a permit. Not sure what the rules are in Kansas. May be worth the looksee.

I'm not sure whether it just seems like it or not, but there are a lot more crazy people in the news. It would also give me an excuse to buy something a little smaller. I have a great Ruger 357 but it's a little heavy for constant carry.
 
I can honestly say I've never seen a business with a "no guns allowed" sign. Guess I'll have to remember to look for them the next time I'm passing through the People's Republic of Iowa.
 
JD I live in Wi. and after we got the conceal carry we have had a lot of the signs go up. As far as I am concerened they are just asking for trouble. But as the old saying goes YOU JUST CAN'T FIX STUPID!!!!!!!!!!

Bob
 
The real problem is in how the courts will interpret some thing that could happen in a place marked not fire arms allowed. Some of the Judges here in Iowa and other states have the opinion that if it is posted "No firearms allowed" then your permit is invalid if anything goes wrong.

Also there have been two cases where the local town cops have tried to arrest permit holder if they are seen in places marked with the no guns sign.

Many and I do mean many of the "law officers" in this country think they should be the only ones that are "allowed" to have guns. One of these is the Police Chief in Marion, Iowa. He actually sent all of the business in Marion the no gun stickers with a letter stating he thought that they all should do this. Kind of a forced deal when the local police chief asks you to do something. The attached picture is of the signs.

I did not do much business there anyway but I do ZERO now. There has not been a since major gun grime done by a permit holder in the US but the mass media make us out to be worse then the actual criminals.
a81189.jpg
 

mb58,

The no guns in car rule for company employees [i:a196063a67]has[/i:a196063a67] been challenged and the gun owners won. I can't remember just where it was, though.

To the other posters suggesting ignoring business signs that no guns are allowed, you can be charged with criminal trespass for ignoring the signs.

Myron
 
I"m not trying to argue your point, but I"m also not willing to concede that all is lost.

If your chief of police is pulling this kind of crap then your gripe is at the ballot box. It"s time to get PRO-active and get a council and mayor that will replace this bustard and put a fair minded person in charge of the force. Not someone that"s actively trying to limit our ability to carry.

I"m not a gung ho kind of activist, but those signs don"t bother me, because they"re a civil request and not a law to be adhered to. Believe me we"re in the same boat back here, although we rarely see those kinds of signs with the exceptions of the proximity of the large cities. However I can"t stress enough, it"s concealed and that really is the key to the whole situation.

Get proactive at the ballot box, no matter if it"s in your voting district or not, defeat the people that retain that idiot of a chief.
 
There was a big stink here in Marion . Our police chief sent out a letter and 2 "No guns stickers " to every business in town . I threw mine away and promptly went up to the cop shop to ask what the @@@ this was all about . He claimed the town would be safer if there were no guns . When I reminded hin he was going against Iowa law he didn't seem to care . Stated it was his opinion , he was the chief and thats thats . I asked where the funds came from to print the stickers ,send the letters and postage . He fired back it was paid for from consfiscated drug money. I reminded him that was NOT his personal Slush fund . Also let the mayor and city council know . Many of the shops that put the stickers up did so out of ignorance. Thought they were supposed to . I reminded a few that it was there choice , but offered them a "No open carry " sticker instead . I have "this business supports legal concealed carry " on my door .
 
A local gun club passes out bussiness cards to no handgun stores that say since were not allowed in your store we won't be doing any bussiness with you.
 

"those signs don"t bother me, because they"re a civil request and not a law to be adhered to."

Might want to check PA law. In Ohio and probably some other states, you can be charged with criminal trespass for ignoring them.

Myron
 
A bank in our town has up one of those signs showing a pistol in a circle with a diagonal line thru it. The bank thinks it means no handguns. I asked my instructor about it and he says it only means the employees cannot be armed.

I guess the bank doesn't know this.

The local Ford dealer has a similar sign etched in the glass of his store front. That's ok, I just went up the road and bought my F-150 up there. We've never had a good Ford dealer in town anyway.
 
Granted it is the stores right to put up that sign and it's my right to shop elsewhere. Mn's permit is a carry permit. Both open and concealed.

I think a lot of cops are against carry laws because it reminds them that they are not "protecting" us like they should. Most often it's not their fault. It's the city, county and or state that would rather spend money on stupid things than to have enough law enforcement offers to cover the population. I remember reading somewhere that for adequate coverage you need one officer on duty for every 1000 population.

Rick
 
When Wisconsin finally passed concealed carry quite a few businesses put up the no gun signs, including our local electric supply. If I have a choice I don't shop at the businesses that post no carry. My last Air Force duty station was McDill AFB Florida, of course Florida was one of the first to pass a abundant concealed carry law AND THEY SAW THEIR VIOLENT CRIME RATE GO DOWN. When we lived in Florida driving out of an airport in a rental car was considered to be a form of suicide, why because the bad guys assumed you'd just gotten off an airplane and had no gun and they prefer unarmed victims (whimps). In one of the post Air Force jobs I had in Florida I had a truck driver that was beaten and robbed by thugs at gun point. As the investigation unfolded it seemed they followed the truck, didn't rob him when he serviced the Checker's or the KFC or the McDonald's but as soon as he went into the school yard he got jumped, why? once he entered the school yard they knew he didn't have a gun. I used this information to quiet some of the fears of our church council that wanted a big no gun sign on our door, we don't have that sign so education sometimes works.

One last thought Andrew Kehoe killed 44 people at the Bath Michigan on a May morning, most of the victims were at the Bath Consolidated Schools. He didn't use any guns, did use quite a bit of dynamite. Why don't we hear about this? Could it be because it was a tax protest? The increase in taxes to pay for the new school was a double whammy for him on top of the Agricultural depression of the 1920's, he was losing his farm and he blamed the school and the higher taxes it took to operate. Or is it because it happened in 1927, (so much for the theory that the world going to heck is a recent phenomenon)
 
JDseller, I've always enjoyed your posts on tractors because I learn something each time. However I think you're very wrong in your comment that "Many and I do mean many of the "law officers" in this country think they should be the only ones that are "allowed" to have guns”.

Are there any facts or survey to back up this absurd claim or just a statement that reflects your opinion towards law enforcement?

I am a law enforcement officer (over 26 years) and a CHL and NRA instructor in Texas and I've never heard such a claim from any officers. The feeling I get from other officers is that they encourage responsible gun ownership and to be trained if you plan to carry. Saving your own life or that of a loved one is an immediate action and most officers are 5 to 10 minutes away, thus being trained and actually having the weapon on or near you is a basic right of being an American.

I looked up information on the chief you have referred to and found that this guy is a nut case and a disgrace to professional law enforcement officer throughout the nation. He has no respect for anyone’s rights and is overcome by a huge ego. I would not compare him to any law enforcement officer since he is a bureaucrat and not a real police officer. I agree with an earlier poster, you need to vote this moron out of office or whoever hired him.

I always look forward to your tractor stories and in the future may have to call upon you to trouble shoot my 5200 or 7800 tractor issues.
 
I asked the local concealed carry instructor (Mo.). He stated that in Mo. there are no enforcement penalties for ignoring the no weapons allowed signs on a business. He stated the only thing it does is relieve them from liability in case of an incident.
 
My S&W 60 fits just fine in the bib pocket of my overalls.No one knows this old man is armed.Liberty brand over alls have a nice snap flap pocket and a zip close pocket on the bib.Open bib pockets collect sawdust,hay chaff and potato chips.
 
In TX. it is a state crime like $10k fine 10 years in prison to carry into a place like a liquor store and some others like schools and govt bldgs. Buildings of the lot post a conspicuous sign near/on the door.

Mark
 
Lots of people go on about the bad ol days when the Kennedy family owned Mass, but nowdays I only find these signs at all the post offices, federal businesses aren't they? I haven't seen one near a school in years, never on a bank or bussiness, but then, there are only two kinds of people carrying firearms in Mass, those who were trained and investigated secure from criminal or mental issues- so aren't the problem, and those who are criminals, who don't pay attention to signs in the first place. In states with gray areas of carrying, I argee with the people who think it is a liability issue- I.E. guy goes into a shop to snuff his ex wife who works there, state police, lawyers, politians, insurances all in the aftermath, so maybe a sign is a boss's way out of liability nightmares?? But yep, if a sign is intended for me, I would tell them I am taking my bussiness elsewhere...
 
I know in the US you have your rights to bare arms, and that is completely justified. What is unjustified is the amount of gun crimes and homicides that you have, almost 5x that of Germany and 3.5x that of here in the UK.
We have our fare share of idiots here, who go arounds stealing etc, but at least the chances of them getting their hands on a gun is very low.

Undoubtedly this might not get that many likes, but thats how it seems from an outside perspective.
 
If you actually look at the statistics, the way gun 'crimes' are tallied here in the US if someone commits suicide with a gun it's part of the total, if someone gets shot accidentally it's part of the total. Take that and the fact that the population of the US is much larger than that of either Germany or the UK, and it's very easy to see why the percentages look so bad.

That said I tend to do alot of reading and, while I admit I don' t hear alot about Germany, I do tend to see alot of opinions from others un the UK talking about the overbearing gun laws in their country. Look at it this way, a gun of any type is nothing more than a tool. Like any tool it can be used for both good or bad, depending on the person holding it. Restricting it's use by everyone, and allowing it's use by only those that obtain it illegally...while not allowing those that would otherwise legally have one to do so....is just plain wrong.

Personally I look at it like this. I had an Uncle killed years ago by someone with a baseball bat. They came up from behind him and hit him in the head, killing him. He's just as dead by being hit with a ball bat as he would have been had he been shot, and the criminal is just as guilty of murder using on tool to do the job as another. So, you tell me, do we now need to make private ownership of baseball bats illegal because they can be used to kill someone? What about steak knives, rope, plastic bags, and a host of other common, everyday items that are routinely used to kill others????? Now, before you answer think about this. If someone was coming at you and/or your family with a knife, with the intent to do harm, would you rather be unarmed or would you rather have a gun in your possession to protect yourself. Just remember, those people that have been a victim of crime, and were prepared/armed to prevent it, weren't setting there thinking today is my day to be hurt or killed anymore than you do the same, they just had the foresight and right to prevent it. If anyone in the govermnent believes that they have the right to tell me I don't have the right to protect myself with a firearm or any other way I choose, then I want to see them give up their multiple, armed body guards, and walk around as unarmed and 'exposes' as they tell me I ought to. Remember, the cops will take care of them just like they are supposed to take care of everyone else....they aren't as special as they may believe.......
 
(quoted from post at 08:52:19 09/03/12) I know in the US you have your rights to bare arms, and that is completely justified. What is unjustified is the amount of gun crimes and homicides that you have, almost 5x that of Germany and 3.5x that of here in the UK.
We have our fare share of idiots here, who go arounds stealing etc, but at least the chances of them getting their hands on a gun is very low.

Undoubtedly this might not get that many likes, but thats how it seems from an outside perspective.
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When you was drummin up this outside perspective, did ya give any thought to the fact that the US is just a liiiiiiiiittle more than 5 times bigger than the UK and Germany together in size and population??????????

I's sure glad it ain't just us dumb Americans that pull stupid stuff outta our butts :roll:
 
(quoted from post at 13:04:55 09/03/12) If you actually look at the statistics, the way gun 'crimes' are tallied here in the US if someone commits suicide with a gun it's part of the total, if someone gets shot accidentally it's part of the total. Take that and the fact that the population of the US is much larger than that of either Germany or the UK, and it's very easy to see why the percentages look so bad.

That said I tend to do alot of reading and, while I admit I don' t hear alot about Germany, I do tend to see alot of opinions from others un the UK talking about the overbearing gun laws in their country. Look at it this way, a gun of any type is nothing more than a tool. Like any tool it can be used for both good or bad, depending on the person holding it. Restricting it's use by everyone, and allowing it's use by only those that obtain it illegally...while not allowing those that would otherwise legally have one to do so....is just plain wrong.

Personally I look at it like this. I had an Uncle killed years ago by someone with a baseball bat. They came up from behind him and hit him in the head, killing him. He's just as dead by being hit with a ball bat as he would have been had he been shot, and the criminal is just as guilty of murder using on tool to do the job as another. So, you tell me, do we now need to make private ownership of baseball bats illegal because they can be used to kill someone? What about steak knives, rope, plastic bags, and a host of other common, everyday items that are routinely used to kill others????? Now, before you answer think about this. If someone was coming at you and/or your family with a knife, with the intent to do harm, would you rather be unarmed or would you rather have a gun in your possession to protect yourself. Just remember, those people that have been a victim of crime, and were prepared/armed to prevent it, weren't setting there thinking today is my day to be hurt or killed anymore than you do the same, they just had the foresight and right to prevent it. If anyone in the govermnent believes that they have the right to tell me I don't have the right to protect myself with a firearm or any other way I choose, then I want to see them give up their multiple, armed body guards, and walk around as unarmed and 'exposes' as they tell me I ought to. Remember, the cops will take care of them just like they are supposed to take care of everyone else....they aren't as special as they may believe.......
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Very well said!!!
 
(quoted from post at 08:52:19 09/03/12) I know in the US you have your rights to bare arms, and that is completely justified. What is unjustified is the amount of gun crimes and homicides that you have, almost 5x that of Germany and 3.5x that of here in the UK.
We have our fare share of idiots here, who go arounds stealing etc, but at least the chances of them getting their hands on a gun is very low.

Undoubtedly this might not get that many likes, but thats how it seems from an outside perspective.
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Pete you do have the right to your opinion just as I have. Now problem with you stating it.

Is it England that has talked about outlawing kitchen knives in the past as they have become the prefered weapon of choice now that guns are illegal? Plus we should forget about the rise in murders and voilent crimes in England sense they got rid of most of thier guns?

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 15:51:50 09/02/12) I am noticing a lot of local business displaying the no gun signs in the windows. It really kind of Pi$$es me off. If nothing happens then most people will never know I am carrying. If something does happen then my gun being in the car is no help.

Wonder how many in that CO movie theater wished that some one had ignored the no carry sign last month???

My local bank put one in the window. I went in and told the bank President that I wanted to with draw all my money out. He was all over himself asking why. I told him he was not going to be able to protect any deposits in his bank. What?? Well if the law abiding citizens have to be unarmed in the bank that just leaves the crooks to carry guns. He took the sign down.

There is a parts house in town that put one up. I just stopped going there. They are free to do that and I am free to not do business with anyone that feels that way.

Read the earlier post of mine about a cash tractor deal. Where would I be today if I was not carrying???

Uncle Sam felt it was OK to train me to use these weapons to fight for your freedom. I feel then that I earned the right to legally carry them any where on US soil. I get reminded every morning just what that payment was on freedom. Every time I have lifted something heavy since 1972 I get the wonderful feeling of knowing the price of freedom.

[color=red:4400f33a46]For those that feel they have the right to keep me from carrying them then let them go to countries that have zero rights to carry firearms[/color:4400f33a46]. It is funny how the crime rates are going up in those countries. England has some of the strictest laws in the world on this. They are having more home invasions because the crooks know the home owners are powerless to stop them.

What many don't know about Iowa's conceal carry permit is that it is a weapons permit not just gun permit. I can carry a knife or sword with a long blade legal too. Brass knuckles are legal with the permit too. So I have played with the idea of getting a real old military sword. Then go into the places with the little cute gun with an red circle and slash across it. LMAO. I would love to see the looks on their faces.
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I am a supporter of the right to carry arms, but, I am also a supporter of strong personal property rights. If a company or an individual does not want you carrying a gun on their property you should either respect that choice and go in unarmed or you should not go in at all. I absolutely have a right to keep you from carrying a gun on my personal property.

Now, do I think it is wise for businesses to put signs up like that? Well no, it is not. But, it is their property, not mine, it is their option.
 

Those 5x and 3.5x are based on statistics per 100,000 people, so its not just a stupid figure pulled out of my butt.
 
Its simple, if spending money in a business that has a "no guns" sign bothers you, dont spend your money there. Go over to opencarry.org and they have some business sized cards you can print off or have printed that sum up your feelings. They are commonly refered to as the "no guns, no money" cards. Hand them to the manager or owner of any business so they know why they are missing out on your money. Followup with a phone call or old fashoned letter telling them you would love to spend money there but the business wont allow you to enter. Always turn the tables around on them, they will want to say you are more than welcome to come in but not your gun. Shift it to them by saying you dont feel comfortable taking your gun off, unloading it and locking it in a car unattended just to enter a business. Ask them as a business owner what guarantee they can provide that if you do take off your gun and keep it in the car, that your car wont be broken into and somehow a kid wont get it. When they correctally say they cant guarantee that, tell them thats exactally why you want to keep it safely on your hip. Remember, always turn the tables on the business owner that they are keeping you out by the signage, not you choising not to shop there. After all, that is exactally what is being done.

Here in WI, since the "no guns" signs have been popping up due to the recient law allowing CC, I have only spent $40 in businesses that had signs up. Trust me, I feel bad about that $40 but I just had to have what they did and due to needing it for work I had no choice. Still not bad considering they would normally have gotten hundreds if not thousands of dollars otherwise.

Im now in charge of my own purchacing at work and do alot of it for the rest of my department and another one. Normally thats just a follow the template kind of thing and when more equipment or consumables need to be ordered, you just order where the last shipment came from. Now, since some places have shown they dont want my business, I have been working on sourcing new vendors for what I need. Its a slow process because of the time it takes to find a new vendor for each product ordered but Im commited. Just the stroke of my pen or the click of my mouse can equal hundreds or thousands of dollars going to a company that agrees with the laws of the land here.... or hundreds to thousands of dollars lost by a business that simply dont want me or my money. Simply put, Im making businesses stand (or fail) on the same moral decisions they are asking me to make when I have to decide to walk through a door or not.

Am I dumb enough to think me not spending money in a business will affect them? No, I dont spend enough personally to make even a ripple in a businesses cash flow. My work account, now that hurts them. I know, places have called. But you need to think of you meager personal purchases as tiny business accounts. If you and all your friends think and spend alike, it really adds up so dont sell your wallet short.

Good lists for businesses that love you or hate you are available at opencarry.org and friendorfoe.us. Vote with your wallet, some say its the best vote you got.
 
(quoted from post at 17:48:50 09/03/12)
Those 5x and 3.5x are based on statistics per 100,000 people, so its not just a stupid figure pulled out of my butt.
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To be fair Pete, untill you actually post where those stats come from so they can be vetted by the peer review process, they are quite literally pulled from your butt.

Post the links, we would love to see them.
 
(quoted from post at 18:53:43 09/02/12) I'm not sure whether it just seems like it or not, but there are a lot more crazy people in the news.
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Honestly, I think we just get a lot more news, and faster.
Jack the Ripper certainly wasn't a "normal" human being.
Of course, bad news sells is always part of that equation.
 
(quoted from post at 15:48:50 09/03/12)
Those 5x and 3.5x are based on statistics per 100,000 people, so its not just a stupid figure pulled out of my butt.
Click to expand...

Whats that old saying about 90% of statistics being made up on the spot...?

Statistics are hard to compare unless all of the input data is 100% equal. IE does one country count suicide or accidents in their figures and the other doesn't, does one country count robbery as a violent crime and the other doesn't, ETC.
 
(quoted from post at 15:48:50 09/03/12)
Those 5x and 3.5x are based on statistics per 100,000 people, so its not just a stupid figure pulled out of my butt.
Click to expand...

Thing is, depending on who/where you ask/look, you can make statistics do whatever you want them to......
 
(quoted from post at 11:04:55 09/03/12) If you actually look at the statistics, the way gun 'crimes' are tallied here in the US if someone commits suicide with a gun it's part of the total, if someone gets shot accidentally it's part of the total. Take that and the fact that the population of the US is much larger than that of either Germany or the UK, and it's very easy to see why the percentages look so bad.

That said I tend to do alot of reading and, while I admit I don' t hear alot about Germany, I do tend to see alot of opinions from others un the UK talking about the overbearing gun laws in their country. Look at it this way, a gun of any type is nothing more than a tool. Like any tool it can be used for both good or bad, depending on the person holding it. Restricting it's use by everyone, and allowing it's use by only those that obtain it illegally...while not allowing those that would otherwise legally have one to do so....is just plain wrong.

Personally I look at it like this. I had an Uncle killed years ago by someone with a baseball bat. They came up from behind him and hit him in the head, killing him. He's just as dead by being hit with a ball bat as he would have been had he been shot, and the criminal is just as guilty of murder using on tool to do the job as another. So, you tell me, do we now need to make private ownership of baseball bats illegal because they can be used to kill someone? What about steak knives, rope, plastic bags, and a host of other common, everyday items that are routinely used to kill others????? Now, before you answer think about this. If someone was coming at you and/or your family with a knife, with the intent to do harm, would you rather be unarmed or would you rather have a gun in your possession to protect yourself. Just remember, those people that have been a victim of crime, and were prepared/armed to prevent it, weren't setting there thinking today is my day to be hurt or killed anymore than you do the same, they just had the foresight and right to prevent it. If anyone in the govermnent believes that they have the right to tell me I don't have the right to protect myself with a firearm or any other way I choose, then I want to see them give up their multiple, armed body guards, and walk around as unarmed and 'exposes' as they tell me I ought to. Remember, the cops will take care of them just like they are supposed to take care of everyone else....they aren't as special as they may believe.......
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I've said it before- I'll say it again . "It's not a gun problem it's a people problem".
 
Statistics don't matter. Here in the US, the cat is out of the bag, the worms are out of the can, the genie is out of the bottle.

There is no way the government will ever be able to effectively control guns in this country. There are simply too many guns out there, both illegal and legal, that the government will not be to lay their hands on.

All they will be able to go after are the legally documented guns. I suspect most of those will be mysteriously "lost."

What are they going to do? Send the Army to kick in every door in America? Even if you can find enough COs and soldiers to follow those orders, it will quickly dissolve into civil war.

All you will ever see out of our government are weak attempts at "gun control" to appease the pacifists, with grandfather clauses that make the laws completely useless.
 
Since I am concealed carrying, I have chosen to carry, if they have an issue, and decide to tell me to leave, I will, but I will not ever return to their business. So far have not had a problem.
 
At the current rate it will take the US 600 years before we catch with with the number the Germans murdered in the 20th century. I guess its all in how you look at it.
 
I don;t think you're stupid Pete, but you have to understand how those crime stats are compiled. I had the duty of filling out those stat sheets for many years. Everything has to fit in a box and a lot of the boxes aren't really very accurate. So what you get is gun "crime" rates that include police shootings on criminals, accidental discharges resulting in injury to the gun owner, suicides, hunting accidents, range accidents, negligent accidents, self defense shootings, etc, all mixed in with actual criminal use of a weapon type shootings. What isn't included at all is the use of the gun safely and responsibly, use of the gun to stop or prevent a crime without discharge or the millions of rounds fired each year that aren't a problem. The stats are biased and set up to support the agenda of certain gov't officials and have been since they 1930's.

Gang shootings, drug shootings, murder, etc, that's bad. We need to punish the people committing the crimes, not the people obeying the law.
 
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