Plow questions....

[Absent Minded Farmer]

I'm looking at a 412 that's relatively close to home. The only down side is, it's Fast Hitch. Not that FH is bad, I just don't think my 560D is
going to pull that through clay. The plow looks to be 4-14, maybe a 4-16. Can I use a 3PT mount from another plow, like the 541? If I can get that
setup, the 806 should pull it no problem. Or can I drop the rear bottom & move the tail wheel up? From the pictures it looks like the wheel is
attached to the standard itself & not the frame.

Suppose it's possible to use it on the 560. It's a diesel, just shy of 2400 hrs, that didn't show any obvious signs of wear in the engine.... well,
minus the valve rockers. It has 15.5s on the rear with dual weights & fluid in them. Injector pump has a fresh rebuild. Wide front for extra weight
& the plow gear. Also have two pair of rear H wheel weights to hang off of the front. Guess it could just be wishful thinking for that. I know
706/756s had an issue pulling 3-16 closer to Lake Michigan, but that was red clay. Don't have any of that here. Just sand & the light tan clay.

Appreciate your thoughts & input.

Mike

 

[Janicholson]

We pulled 3-14s on a 350U fast hitch in yellow clay. Second and third gear In and out of TA as we went. No real issue. Jim

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Good to know. Thanks Jim!

Mike

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

I know you have likely posted this before and I can't remember. How much ground are you going to cover. We had trouble pulling a #70 3/17 with a 560 but it could pull a 4/16 semi mounted 710 with a 1000 Lbs up front fairly easy. I pulled 4/14 trailer with my 560 in crp and it was all it wanted. A few acres buy it but if doing corn stalks you will hate it.

 

[old]

Too bad your not close to me I have a 2 bottom disk plow I would sell it is a fast hitch

 

[fastfarmall]

I never have dropped a bottom on a IH plow, but almost positive you can, every thing should move up! I pull a 3x16 fast hitch plow,with SMTA, the worst stuff i got into at plow day, was some land that hadn't been plowed for 17 years,Pulled hard but never had to shift out of 2nd gear, at least 8 inches deep,with deep suck share's and in the deep suction setting on the plow, most guys were skinning along 2-3 inch deep. Sounds like you should drop it to 3-14's, i know there is some tough land in Michigan!

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

That is too bad. I've always wanted a disc plow. Not sure how well they work in stoney soil, though.

Mike

 

[old]

I live in the Ozarks of Missouri and you cannot get much worse then here for rocks etc. A disk plow works well in fields that are full of rocks

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

I did post before, but it was about using a 3PT Kvereneland plow on my 560 with adapters. Seems the consensus was it doesn't lift high enough & hills might be an issue. I'm looking at plowing 2A of grass & alfalfa mix that's hard packed ground this fall & possibly 20A of alfalfa next spring. That might be even tougher, as it's been min till with heavy equipment on it for a good many years without much manure applied. Kind of why I would like to plow. Have access to lots of manure & I'd like to incorporate that into the oversized sand box w/clay that it is. Then it will be corn & back to a pasture mix. It will stay like that for a while.

Don't know how much weight I can pile on the front of this tractor. Don't recall how much those rear weights for the H are. I do have a few extra I can swipe from a couple other H's. Might help some.

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Four bottoms might work then. Around here, NE SEWI, there isn't more that a couple inches of top soil to begin with. That & the fewer rocks I draw up, the better. Also not in any foreseeable hurry. I do enjoy plowing, so 2nd wouldn't be an issue. If I have to drop a bottom, I'm glad to know it should work. Just hope I have enough ballast for the front of the plow.

However, the 2A in pasture mix hasn't been plowed in 11 years & the 20A I'm looking at is more like 20 years of min-till. So, won't know until I get the plow in the ground. Looks like I may have to get fresh shares & coulters for it. May be why it's relatively cheap.

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

I keep forgetting there's a mountainous area in Missouri. Not sure why there aren't any disc plows in my area. Would clay have something to do with that?

Mike

 

[old]

We also have tons of good old black and red clay here so yes they work well in clay

 

[Roger Tomfohrde]

It should be fine, make sure you have enough air in the tractor tires as the fast hitch plow transfers more weight that most people imagine. You may be a bit slower and have to drop a gear. they really pull easier than a pull type. I have also read comments about dropping a bottom which is and alternative, just make sure you move the last land side up. The only comment I will make is I had a 3/16 fully mounted and the 560 hardly noticed it back there but the catch is do not plan on making short turns with it in the ground because of where the pivot/steers/pulls from is near the middle of the tractor.

 

[the tractor vet]

The 560 was made as a 4-5 bottom tractor and will have no problem with 4 -14's in clay in second gear if it is weighted down and two notches up on the traction control . I pulled 4-14 540's with a five bottom harrow mounted on the plow with a 450 D . And our ground over here has some pretty tough clay spots , my 806 will handle 5-16 in L 4 on the flats where we can find them and requires the crutch on the up hills running 10 inches deep . I found out may years ago that a semi mount plow pulls a lot easier then a mounted plow as my first year farming i had a set of 311's in three bottom 14 inch . One day for sh--t's and giggles i hooked to my buddy's 540 4-14 540's with a harrow on it and i gained a gear and could run third with ease . That fall and winter we were plow shopping and found a set of 540's and a harrow . That cut down on time spent disking and now we only had the head lands and dead furrow to hit with the disk .

 

[Dugger]

(reply to post at 13:08:44 08/17/20)

I looked at my 412 today and dont see any
Reason why you cant take a bottom off
Looks like everything will bolt back on
Dugger

 

[DR. EVIL]

I would at least try the #411 4-14. With the 4F-43 IH fast hitch plow Dad got with our 450 Farmall He had to add about 500# on the front, but mostly to drive around with the plow out of the ground. Your #411 is very similar to the 4F-43 we had.
BTO I worked for bought another 160 acres every year in the late '60's and early/mid '70's. One year he got a bare 80 with buildings on the other side of the road on a hilly 80 divided into 5 odd shaped patches. They pulled out the fence, sent me in with a 4020 and his big rotary mower to cut the weeds, was down in 1st & 2nd gear at times. Then sent me out to plow it with his 5-14 semi-mounted plow, used two different 4020's, a gas and a diesel. I could run along pretty good in 4th gear with the diesel.

 

[rustred]

you have basically 2 gears to pick from , if a 560 wont pull a 4 /16 plow in second gear something wrong with it in stubble field i know it will pull in 3rd gear 6-7 " deep. in hard ground you shift to 2nd gear . i have been working my 660 in 2nd gear here pulling 14 ft deep tillage working dryed up wet spring ground. lots easier on the tractor in this hot weather and it does pull in 3rd but takin it easy.

 

[DeltaSteve]

A disk plow really shines in rocky ground. they just bounce over the rocks. A regular moldboard will just hook the rock and tear heck out of the plow.dont ask how I know that.....

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Makes me wonder why I never saw any in this area. There sure are enough rocks. Suppose it's possible they were all scrapped out a long time ago, but there should still be one in the weeds somewhere. Huh. I'm going to have to ask when I go to the local, former IH dealer. Must be something I'm missing. Just like the plows pulled around here are usually two bottoms less than rated, sometimes three. Except for Cs & Hs. Those are the typical 2x14. Never had a problem with my H & Ollie Plowmaster in any soil condition here. Big rocks are about the worst thing. Especially getting one of those dino eggs wedged between the shares.

The only thing I know about the clay around here is, it's firm & greasy. Isn't that all clay?

Mike

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I dare any of you to bring your tractor and plow here and try to make good on those claims you're making.

A 560 might be able to pull 4-16's in FIRST gear around here. 2nd if you're going downhill. 3rd only when you get disgusted, quit, and head back to your truck and trailer to load up and leave.

 

[Pembroke]

(quoted from post at 18:54:49 08/19/20) I dare any of you to bring your tractor and plow here and try to make good on those claims you're making.

A 560 might be able to pull 4-16's in FIRST gear around here. 2nd if you're going downhill. 3rd only when you get disgusted, quit, and head back to your truck and trailer to load up and leave.

Not to be a smartA$$, But where do you live Sir that ground is that tough?

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

North-eastern area of south-eastern Wis. Outside of West Bend, to be a little more exact. We have some very dense yellow clay that tends to be very
slick, sand that will sink a small boat & some of the rocks will have you thinking that you hooked the top of a mountain. Especially the massive blue
stones. Your best bet there is to dig a biiiiiig hole next to them & pray you have a big enough machine to move it to said hole. Another thing to
consider about this area. It's where the last glacier plowed the land on it's way south & then took a massive dump when it began retreating. They area
around Kenosha has all of our good top soil.

Which reminds me, I have to write their chamber again & demand that they return our topsoil. ;vD

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Lol! What neck of the woods do you live in? I know a few spots around here that would fit that description.

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

It's possible that it might work. I only have to turn over about 4". May have 3" of manure on top. Getting eager to see how it goes. Have to figure out how to talk him down from that lofty price though. Might take a minute or two.

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

If anything, it's worth a shot. Looks like I can drop a bottom if necessary. Also been debating looking for a FH for the 806. Doesn't look like too much of a pain to change out.

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Good to know!

Mike

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Interesting. I wonder why a trailer plow creates more draft. Might it be the wheels digging into the ground creating the resistance?

Mike

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 13:15:05 08/19/20)

(quoted from post at 18:54:49 08/19/20) I dare any of you to bring your tractor and plow here and try to make good on those claims you're making.

A 560 might be able to pull 4-16's in FIRST gear around here. 2nd if you're going downhill. 3rd only when you get disgusted, quit, and head back to your truck and trailer to load up and leave.

Not to be a smartA$$, But where do you live Sir that ground is that tough?

Western NY, just north of the Southern Tier. I've plowed with a stout 400 (previous owner claimed 65HP) pulling a 3-14, and 2nd gear was all it could manage plowing sod. The Super M pulling the same plow, I was in 1st on the hills.

We have pretty much every soil type you can name, mostly bony gravel (lots of fist-sized rocks), clay, but precious little of the easy plowing sandy loam where you can run in 3rd gear pulling an extra bottom.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Boney gravel? Was that in an old river bed?

Mike