Poor connection

[Rush55]

one negative end broken and am not getting any ground at all

 

[Rush55]

let me make sure I got what you meant in last post. 1.put battery cables on battery 2 put red cable on starter hot post 3 ground black cable to tractor frame. this is the first step right put back cable on hot solenoid post and turn key if it clicks by the key its the solenoidl.

 

[Jim.ME]

one negative end broken and am not getting any ground at all

If this is the negative battery cable you are talking about, and it is the lug end that bolts to the frame. If there is enough length when the bad end is cut off, you might be able to get a shop to put an end on for you, if you have someone local you use for your vehicles.

If you would please reply to posts using the reply in the lower right of the post box, not put your reply in the box below the post. That way we should be able to see a quote of the post you are replying to. There are enough different people replying no it is getting confusing as to who you are replying to without the quote. I used the reply button (red arrow) in your post so you should see your post I am replying to for an example. I will back out now.

 

[Destroked 450]

There has to be something else wrong with his cable if it is bolted direct to the engine block on the opposite end of the motor. Unless the whole starter face and his bolts have formed that white chalky substance that occurs between aluminum and metal joints; doubtful, but possible. DS not that your recommendation is not proper and a good practice.
Rush, on your wiring as I see it you have 4 choices.
1. Purchase the $125 manual with the wiring diagram.
2. Cut the wiring harness open to follow the burnt wires and replace them.
3. Hire someone who knows auto/truck/tractor electrical systems who can repair it for you.
4. Haul or drive it with temporary wiring to a shop to have it repaired.

His cable is not bolted to the engine block, that is a photo of mine
His is attached to a stud on the end of the starter
It’s a steel stud sticking through the aluminum nose of the starter, we experienced poor cranking conditions from this connection years ago due to corrosion
It was easier to relocate the cable than to remove the starter nose to clean the corrosion
It’s either that or his ground cable is bad, I may be wrong but I thought I read he had replaced the cables

 

[rustred]

no! Get someone out there with experience to give u a hand. Too much all over the place here. Or just buy that solenoid as it’s the fastest fix at this rate. Lol time is money too. Follow what Jim.ME is telling u then. Things must be done in order as requested.

 

[rustred]

no! Get someone out there with experience to give u a hand. Too much all over the place here. Or just buy that solenoid as it’s the fastest fix at this rate. Lol time is money too. Follow what Jim.ME is telling u then. Things must be done in order as requested.

let me make sure I got what you meant in last post. 1.put battery cables on battery 2 put red cable on starter hot post 3 ground black cable to tractor frame. this is the first step right put back cable on hot solenoid post and turn key if it clicks by the key its the solenoidl.

Also u said u bought new cables. I see them junky ends on at the battery cables. Is that what ur calling new cables. ???
New cables don’t come with ends like that. Just to clear that up.

 

[Rush55]

View attachment 82523

I have the same tractor with the same loader, they use the same style starter as Ford diesel tractors built after 1965
The photo of the jumper cables looks like they are connected from the tractor to another vehicle
If this is correct and you only get clicks without the cables connected but can crank the engine with the cables connected either you have a bad connection at the battery or you have a bad battery

As a safety note I also use Group 49 batteries, but I turn the battery around with the post towards the valve cover, the way yours are positioned puts the cable ends very close to the hood side panel with the opportunity to short out
Doing so would require swapping the cables around or possibly getting a longer ground cable

this is my farmtrac555

View attachment 82523

I have the same tractor with the same loader, they use the same style starter as Ford diesel tractors built after 1965
The photo of the jumper cables looks like they are connected from the tractor to another vehicle
If this is correct and you only get clicks without the cables connected but can crank the engine with the cables connected either you have a bad connection at the battery or you have a bad battery

As a safety note I also use Group 49 batteries, but I turn the battery around with the post towards the valve cover, the way yours are positioned puts the cable ends very close to the hood side panel with the opportunity to short out
Doing so would require swapping the cables around or possibly getting a longer ground cable

Im sending you a pic of my FT 555

 

[Rush55]

no! Get someone out there with experience to give u a hand. Too much all over the place here. Or just buy that solenoid as it’s the fastest fix at this rate. Lol time is money too. Follow what Jim.ME is telling u then. Things must be done in order as requested.

Well there isn't nobody out here that will be willing to help and when do get someone they have no idea what they doing.

 

[Rush55]

View attachment 82523

I have the same tractor with the same loader, they use the same style starter as Ford diesel tractors built after 1965
The photo of the jumper cables looks like they are connected from the tractor to another vehicle
If this is correct and you only get clicks without the cables connected but can crank the engine with the cables connected either you have a bad connection at the battery or you have a bad battery

As a safety note I also use Group 49 batteries, but I turn the battery around with the post towards the valve cover, the way yours are positioned puts the cable ends very close to the hood side panel with the opportunity to short out
Doing so would require swapping the cables around or possibly getting a longer ground cable

Is that Montana tractor the same as a farmtrac?

 

[used red MN]

Well there isn't nobody out here that will be willing to help and when do get someone they have no idea what they doing.

Then focus on Jim’s steps 1-3 and maybe we will get into 4. I thought in your other post you had said the battery was new, but going back I don’t see that. So Jim’s #1 is important.
And don’t worry about the insistence or urgency that rustred conveys. He is trying to help but gets frustrated easily when responses are slow or what he thinks is priority is not addressed. He is used to his brain thinking it through and his hands immediately following with the action on his own equipment.

 

[Rush55]

Is that Montana tractor the same as a farmtrac?

what is a group 49 battery?

 

[used red MN]

one negative end broken and am not getting any ground at all

What does this mean about “one negative end broken? This appears to need resolved! This appears to be the cause of you needing the jumper cables. Expand on this, show a picture of what you are talking about. This all fits into what rustred is saying about your battery cables. What you got may not be ideal but it will work but those ends have to clamp onto the copper wire in the cable tightly. That is why I am telling you to tug on them hard. To help the forum format to be beneficial for others to understand what you are addressing, to answer this hit Reply under what I have typed and type answers and post photo below the “quoted” post in the smaller print and the red line to the left.
I noticed you replied to another reply but typed nothing below it. If you chose a reply by mistake you can highlight that and delete it. On a phone it is a little harder but can be done.

 

[rustred]

Well there isn't nobody out here that will be willing to help and when do get someone they have no idea what they doing.

I am totally willing to help . Ur just not following instructions. I have come to the conclusion u need another person with experience there to give u a hand. U am not a teacher either but aways willing to help anybody out. Just curious are u a young teenager ? As for what used red said is correct as that was part of my job on oil rigs. If you had a problem you could not figure out , u called in to the office or shop and talked to the next higher up. And better be dam sure that u had all your checks done and everything done including steps. U never just call in and say what’s the problem or I can’t fix this. U would be replaced quickly ! You work together over the phone and get it done. A oil rig has to be up and running as fast as possible and down time is just a no no! That is why when I ask questions I expect a reply. Common sense. But I can’t force anything for you u need to just go with one person and work that way. Too many guess ers and maybe’s on this site. Lots not even applicable to the situation or worried about safety this or that. ,… and yes I am very safety minded all the time. That was number one priority at work also. Plus I do not go into every little detail either. I don’t write books, I give my info according to what I am reading. Plus we have no idea what u know or your capabilities here. So when someone starts asking how to hook up booster cables then I know things are not good. So how old are you? I had a guy graduated from high school few years back. Told him to check the air in his girl friends car. His reply was “I don’t know how”, that kinda stunned me. Guess mom and pop was his go to all his life. More to that story but that’s enough. So if u want us to help you maybe give us some back ground on ur knowledge to
Make things easier. Geez I sound like a preacher now. Ok good luck with your solenoid as that’s what I call them. I even asked for a pic of it also. No pic. I was basically wanting u to bypass the solenoid to
Make the starter crank the engine to show its not the battery or cables at fault. And then go from there. But no comprehenday. Good luck

 

[Rush55]

I am totally willing to help . Ur just not following instructions. I have come to the conclusion u need another person with experience there to give u a hand. U am not a teacher either but aways willing to help anybody out. Just curious are u a young teenager ? As for what used red said is correct as that was part of my job on oil rigs. If you had a problem you could not figure out , u called in to the office or shop and talked to the next higher up. And better be dam sure that u had all your checks done and everything done including steps. U never just call in and say what’s the problem or I can’t fix this. U would be replaced quickly ! You work together over the phone and get it done. A oil rig has to be up and running as fast as possible and down time is just a no no! That is why when I ask questions I expect a reply. Common sense. But I can’t force anything for you u need to just go with one person and work that way. Too many guess ers and maybe’s on this site. Lots not even applicable to the situation or worried about safety this or that. ,… and yes I am very safety minded all the time. That was number one priority at work also. Plus I do not go into every little detail either. I don’t write books, I give my info according to what I am reading. Plus we have no idea what u know or your capabilities here. So when someone starts asking how to hook up booster cables then I know things are not good. So how old are you? I had a guy graduated from high school few years back. Told him to check the air in his girl friends car. His reply was “I don’t know how”, that kinda stunned me. Guess mom and pop was his go to all his life. More to that story but that’s enough. So if u want us to help you maybe give us some back ground on ur knowledge to
Make things easier. Geez I sound like a preacher now. Ok good luck with your solenoid as that’s what I call them. I even asked for a pic of it also. No pic. I was basically wanting u to bypass the solenoid to
Make the starter crank the engine to show its not the battery or cables at fault. And then go from there. But no comprehenday. Good luck

I'm sorry I wasn't saying yall wasn't helpful. I meant trying to get someone in my community to help; no one is as knowledgeable as the people on this forum and I sincerely apologize if I've offended anyone yall all have been very helpful. I've never been very good at explaining things since and having trouble responding and trying to figure out this forum; again my apologies.

 

[Rush55]

What does this mean about “one negative end broken? This appears to need resolved! This appears to be the cause of you needing the jumper cables. Expand on this, show a picture of what you are talking about. This all fits into what rustred is saying about your battery cables. What you got may not be ideal but it will work but those ends have to clamp onto the copper wire in the cable tightly. That is why I am telling you to tug on them hard. To help the forum format to be beneficial for others to understand what you are addressing, to answer this hit Reply under what I have typed and type answers and post photo below the “quoted” post in the smaller print and the red line to the left.
I noticed you replied to another reply but typed nothing below it. If you chose a reply by mistake you can highlight that and delete it. On a phone it is a little harder but can be done.

what I meant was the the other end of the jumper cable (black that used for the ground broke off not the battery cables. I did put new battery cables on the battery and it still wouldn't over without the jumper cables. I'm assuming that I'm not getting a ground

If this is the negative battery cable you are talking about, and it is the lug end that bolts to the frame. If there is enough length when the bad end is cut off, you might be able to get a shop to put an end on for you, if you have someone local you use for your vehicles.

If you would please reply to posts using the reply in the lower right of the post box, not put your reply in the box below the post. That way we should be able to see a quote of the post you are replying to. There are enough different people replying no it is getting confusing as to who you are replying to without the quote. I used the reply button (red arrow) in your post so you should see your post I am replying to for an example. I will back out now.

View attachment 82560

I'm so sorry I meant to say i put jumper cables on battery not battery cables

let me make sure I got what you meant in last post. 1.put battery cables on battery 2 put red cable on starter hot post 3 ground black cable to tractor frame. this is the first step right put back cable on hot solenoid post and turn key if it clicks by the key its the solenoidl.

If this is the negative battery cable you are talking about, and it is the lug end that bolts to the frame. If there is enough length when the bad end is cut off, you might be able to get a shop to put an end on for you, if you have someone local you use for your vehicles.

If you would please reply to posts using the reply in the lower right of the post box, not put your reply in the box below the post. That way we should be able to see a quote of the post you are replying to. There are enough different people replying no it is getting confusing as to who you are replying to without the quote. I used the reply button (red arrow) in your post so you should see your post I am replying to for an example. I will back out now.

View attachment 82560

 

[Jim.ME]

what I meant was the the other end of the jumper cable (black that used for the ground broke off not the battery cables. I did put new battery cables on the battery and it still wouldn't over without the jumper cables. I'm assuming that I'm not getting a ground

I'm so sorry I meant to say i put jumper cables on battery not battery cables

You can't use the word cables interchangeably for the battery cables and your booster cables, it just confuses things. I understand you are not a mechanic and familiar with all of this. With that in mind I am going to suggest you slow down and fix one thing at a time and stop jumping around.

First thing you need is a good battery to operate the tractor. Have you had your battery load tested somewhere so you know it is good? You need a battery that can stand alone, no booster cables adding connections that can be poor just adding to confusion. If it is no good currently, it won't heal itself as you repair wiring.

The next thing you need is good battery cables, get rid of the jumper cables. You need one battery cable from the positive battery post to the battery terminal on the solenoid. Then a second battery cable from the negative battery terminal to one of the bolts that mount the starter to the engine. I suggest you get at least 0 gauge cables. Either buy them premade with the ends on them or have them made with properly crimped on ends. (This should bring out the solder the ends group. I don't disagree with that method but don't believe many places that make cables do that and it doesn't sound like you have the skills to do it, so just rule it out and don't add confusion by discussing doing it.)

Once those two items are completed, report back and someone will give you a couple more steps to do.

You should seriously consider getting a service manual for your tractor.

 

[used red MN]

His is attached to a stud on the end of the starter
It’s a steel stud sticking through the aluminum nose of the starter, we experienced poor cranking conditions from this connection years ago due to corrosion

This is from DS450’s reply 44. This seems to be reported as a known or likely problem on these types of starters and tractors. This could very well be the issue causing the ground cable not to conduct the load. Go back and review this, this is why several including me have asked for a picture of the connection of the negative cable back to the tractor. It sounds like it may be fastened on a stud on the starter but due to dissimilar metals the stud may have corrosion that is not letting it connect and conduct the electrical load properly. This can be corrected easily by fastening/bolting the cable to another nearby bolt on the engine.

 

[Rush55]

You can't use the word cables interchangeably for the battery cables and your booster cables, it just confuses things. I understand you are not a mechanic and familiar with all of this. With that in mind I am going to suggest you slow down and fix one thing at a time and stop jumping around.

First thing you need is a good battery to operate the tractor. Have you had your battery load tested somewhere so you know it is good? You need a battery that can stand alone, no booster cables adding connections that can be poor just adding to confusion. If it is no good currently, it won't heal itself as you repair wiring.

The next thing you need is good battery cables, get rid of the jumper cables. You need one battery cable from the positive battery post to the battery terminal on the solenoid. Then a second battery cable from the negative battery terminal to one of the bolts that mount the starter to the engine. I suggest you get at least 0 gauge cables. Either buy them premade with the ends on them or have them made with properly crimped on ends. (This should bring out the solder the ends group. I don't disagree with that method but don't believe many places that make cables do that and it doesn't sound like you have the skills to do it, so just rule it out and don't add confusion by discussing doing it.)

Once those two items are completed, report back and someone will give you a couple more steps to do.

You should seriously consider getting a service manual for your tractor.

Thanks Jim will do. Report back soon

 

[Destroked 450]

Is that Montana tractor the same as a farmtrac?

Yes same tractor
Montana relabeled the Farmtrac tractors when they purchased the remaining inventory after Farmtrac shutdown US operations

 

[Rush55]

Thanks Jim will do. Report back soon

BTW just remembered brought battery to auto zone to have it load tested; they said it was good although the guy did tell me that auto zone no longer has a tool they used to have that would really load test the battery. This battery I have is only a few months old . I use a battery charger at home to charge after using it in my attempts to fix starting problem.